Big Boss vs Solidus Snake

Originally posted by CosmicSurfer
Raiden, in human form, can block a few bullets not multiple gunfire like Grayfox. His reflexes are not in the league of Cyborg Grayfox.

What? How can you say only Liquid and Solid could have beat Big Boss? Do you have proof that they're above Solidus? Solidus is the first and only perfect clone of Big Boss. He has both dominant and recessive genes. His potential is the same as the Big Boss.

What are you even saying?!?!?!?

raiden in human form can block ray's turrets, try it out, otacon tells him to do that on codec btw. the reflexes of all the cyborg ninjas were only enhanced genetically, the cyborg exoskeleton didnt give frank or olga or raiden any superhuman REFLEXES, only superhuman STRENGTH{which translates into agility/speed as well as durability of the suit itself} their reflexes were ALWAYS their own human ones.

solidus is NOT the perfect clone of big boss, where the hell did u hear that?! solidus is the LEAST perfect clone of big boss, which is shown by his advanced aging which began before liquid or solid{liquid showd a hint of it, by his blonde hair, this was due to advanced aging, his actual hair colour is brown, just like snake} solid snake resembles big boss the most and had the most delayed advent of advanced aging. they are all chromosomally identical to big boss, but possess different alleales.

and if you havent forgotten, solids was defeated by RAIDEN. who is inferior to solid.

Volgin getting hit by the RPG:
YouTube video

This is from MGS3: Existence which features gameplay added to cutscenes thus making boss battles more "canon' storywise as Snake won't start a fight in a cutscene with a knife and gun and then start using the AK in the actual gameplay battle ya know?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
yes but chad was HUMAN, that alone is reason enough to call it PIS by your criteria.

No... no it's not. That doesn't go with my criteria at all.

he wasnt incapacitated by volgin, he best volgin's ass to the ground

He surprised Volgin... once. And then he just stood their and started taking the hits to the face like it was nobodies business.

and THEN was beaten by boss after which it took MANY punches to bring him down.

Hardly. Did you notice that Volgin was pulling his punches, and even then Snake was falling to the floor, dazed the entire time, etc? When Volgin finally got bored he hit and dropped him instantly.

and the eye didnt slow him down, thats how teh story goes, dont like it, take it up with kojima.

I don't have to take anything up with Kojima. This is a debating forum, which means I have the right to tear down Kojima's backwards ass logic as much as I want, piece by piece. 🙂

KMC rules. You deal with it.

the answer is simple, you are imposing real world physics on a video game.

No I'm not, I'm imposing logic into a video game, I.E.: If someone gets there ass handed to them over and over by someone throughout the entire video game, then he shouldn't magically be able to beat said person in their final fight even though he's received no extra training, is missing an eye, and got his ass beat to a pulp not even two days before hand. This is also why I can not stand Bleach, and Kingdom Hearts irritates me.

However that's not damage soak, and it's not a feat in favor of Snake's durability. After the first couple of punches from Volgin Snake was essentially down for the count. At that point Volgin just started pounding him until he shit himself... I suppose that you can count it as a feat due to Snake not dying, but he was unable to fight back, or even muster up a defense at all; so it's unrealistic for Snake to magically be able to defeat Volgin in a fight, especially considering the man has an EM force field like Magneto's that's strong enough to repel RPG rounds, enough strength to punch through reinforced steel walls, and was only killed when he was struck by lightning and pulpified by hundreds of rounds of his own bullets strapped to his chest going off.

no matter which we you look at it, it's an endurance feet.

There really should be no way for either Big Boss or The Boss to have punked Volgin.

~Sado

Originally posted by Sado22
[B]that's 10million volts to the body.

Can you prove that he was channeling all 10 million volts through Snake's body? Considering he was pulling his punches it'd make sense for Volgin to hold back how much power he was using as well.

not only did he NOT die he was still conscious after several of those projectiles and those punches.

That's because Volgin wasn't trying to kill him or drop him. The type of punches he was using were designed to hurt but not do extensive physical damage. If Snake were to lose consciousness instantly or die then he wouldn't feel any more pain, so he wouldn't be able to "suffer". Volgin was drawing it out until he either got bored or thought Snake had had enough for the time being, then threw one full punch that wasn't held back, and dropped him. Granted, by that point Snake was essentially a walking unconscious guy.

maybe he was pulling them, but regardless its not like they didn't hurt given that Volgin's a strong S.O.B.

Agreed. Snake pissed on himself; they probably hurt like hell.

as for not being able to fight back, Boss put snake in a choke hold right before the fight and throughout the whole seen Snake was trying to get his breath back.

It only takes a few seconds to get your breath back from a chokehold. If he had the wind knocked out of him then it'd be different, however being a choke hold is just like having a pipe on one minute then off the next. As soon as he was released from the hold a couple breaths would be all that would be necessary. Volgin didn't punch him in the stomach and the chest all that much so he didn't get the wind knocked out of him... Snake would only be out of breath for the first couple of seconds. The rest of the time he was in a daze was because Volgin's falcon paunch was hurting him.

he's was choked and then electricuted. electricity has that effect on you...you lose your coordination.

Depends on how much electricity is being used; not the voltage so much as the current (Current is actually what kills you in an electric shock, not the voltage.

[quotr]heck, i got electricuted a coupla times myself changing bulbs (dumbass, i know)[/quote]

I feel your pain. I was standing on top of a chair changing a bulb a couple years ago and I got shocked and fell off the chair. haermm

and Snake didn't beat him in a PIS way. he got electricuted and then f--ked by his own bullets. not pis.

I'm referring to when they fought int he Hangar.

Can you prove that he was channeling all 10 million volts through Snake's body? Considering he was pulling his punches it'd make sense for Volgin to hold back how much power he was using as well.

That's because Volgin wasn't trying to kill him or drop him. The type of punches he was using were designed to hurt but not do extensive physical damage. If Snake were to lose consciousness instantly or die then he wouldn't feel any more pain, so he wouldn't be able to "suffer". Volgin was drawing it out until he either got bored or thought Snake had had enough for the time being, then threw one full punch that wasn't held back, and dropped him. Granted, by that point Snake was essentially a walking unconscious guy.

It only takes a few seconds to get your breath back from a chokehold. If he had the wind knocked out of him then it'd be different, however being a choke hold is just like having a pipe on one minute then off the next. As soon as he was released from the hold a couple breaths would be all that would be necessary. Volgin didn't punch him in the stomach and the chest all that much so he didn't get the wind knocked out of him... Snake would only be out of breath for the first couple of seconds. The rest of the time he was in a daze was because Volgin's falcon paunch was hurting him.

Depends on how much electricity is being used; not the voltage so much as the current (Current is actually what kills you in an electric shock, not the voltage.

I'm referring to when they fought int he Hangar.

~Sado

Originally posted by Sado22
[Bwas enough to kill two people: Sokolov and the other dude (granin i think). agreed, that Sokolov was a sissy...but still, he was killed.

~Sado [/B]

Actually, he wasn't. He's in Portable Ops.

He still got beaten down to a pulp though...

sokolov is there in portable orps? damn i so wanna play this game!! 😠
BIG BOSS! 💃

Originally posted by leonheartmm
sigh, do you even understand REMOTELY why MGS is called a post modernist game?! its because it seemingly MELDS the natural with the supernatural among other things. the boss was human too correct? then how come, when snake shot her, the entire field of white petals around them turns blood red, and why is it that the scars on her body turn into snakes and crawl away???????? oh right i suppose thats PIS too. similarly, how did liquid snake survive the fall from the top of metal gear rex?! thats not humanly POSSIBLE DAMMIT SO IT MUST BE PIS!!!!!
honestly, you just dont GET metalk gear, going by your narrow minded reasoning.

gray fox, in the twin snakes was able to easily cut a huge block of concreate and kick it mid air hurling it at snake{who dodged it}, also, simply by throwing bodies of his victims, he was able to crack the reinforced walls of shadow moses. and he also was able to physically resist the hundreds of tons of rex's weight being STOMPED down on top of him. he probably is physicall stronger than volgin. and it wasnt pis, it was MGS. your just stubborn so you cant get it. you said it yourself, its upto the series to define what HUMANS can do and MGS defines it differently form the real world.

volgin didnt have snake beat, snake CQCd his ass and had him on the ground then the BOSS, came in and beat snake at CQC after which he was dazed and volgin had gotten up and then beat snake for an EXTENDED period of time with many many blows after which snake was still standing before he was hit in the back of the head. {it WASNT two blows, i can give u the video if u want}

2. Rex is not "hundreds" of tons. And for another thing, why the hell are we giving Big Boss Solid Snake's feats? And nothing there says that Gray Fox can punch as hard as Volgin. With a High Frequency Blade, yeah, he could probably cut through damn near anything. In MGS3...Naked Snake did NOTHING that says he should ever be able to beat Volgin.

3. Snake caught Volgin off guard and took him down and had a gun pointed at him. Then Boss took him down. And dude, Boss did nothing very crippling to Snake. Volgin then got up, and in two hits had Snake fvcked up. And Snake fell down during that beating, Volgin just kept on picking him back up. I have SEEN the video. Snake was fvcked in two or three hits, and was unable to defend himself.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
1. solidus also had an exoskeleton

2. wrong

3. news flash, raiden can also block ray's turret fire with his high frequency blade, infact otacon advises him to do just that

4. no they arent

5. raiden is not superior to bog boss or snake for that matter, open your eyes

6. yea yea, like taking down two armies single handedly, desimating the entire cobra unit with its superhumans members, defeating gene, null, ursula and python in combat, yea yea, i can definately see how its inconsistant.

2. Nope.

3. Cool. Good feat for Raiden. Not Big Boss.

4. Yes, they are. Big Boss only beats him in skill.

5. He apparently is in quickness and reflexes, going by those things we call feats.

6. The Cobra Unit's members are nowhere near as powerful as Volgin by feats. The only one who is is Sorrow, and that was after death. Can't comment on Portable Ops, never played, PSP broke.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
raiden in human form can block ray's turrets, try it out, otacon tells him to do that on codec btw. the reflexes of all the cyborg ninjas were only enhanced genetically, the cyborg exoskeleton didnt give frank or olga or raiden any superhuman REFLEXES, only superhuman STRENGTH{which translates into agility/speed as well as durability of the suit itself} their reflexes were ALWAYS their own human ones.

Are you kidding me? You're telling me that Raiden and Olga's human reflexes are superhuman to begin with and have nothing to do with the exosuit. Where in the world did you get this? That is preposterous.

Neither can't *continously* parry bullets without the exosuit. They can at best parry only a few bullets.

solidus is NOT the perfect clone of big boss, where the hell did u hear that?! solidus is the LEAST perfect clone of big boss, which is shown by his advanced aging which began before liquid or solid{liquid showd a hint of it, by his blonde hair, this was due to advanced aging, his actual hair colour is brown, just like snake} solid snake resembles big boss the most and had the most delayed advent of advanced aging. they are all chromosomally identical to big boss, but possess different alleales.

and if you havent forgotten, solids was defeated by RAIDEN. who is inferior to solid.

Did you even play the game??!?!?! The very first thing they mention about Solidus in both MGS2 and MGS4 is that Solidus is the PERFECT Clone and he has both dominant and recessive genes. Seriously, what game did you play? You don't even have the basics right.

And what proof do you have that Snake is above Raiden?

Yeah Sado...Big Boss himself says Solidus was the perfect clone.

Yeah Sado...Big Boss himself says Solidus was the perfect clone

~Sado

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. ...So now we are using dramatic visual effects as supernatural feats for the Boss? 😐 Shit, if I wanted to, I could blame that shit on The Sorrow. Dude Metal Gear Rex is not that big. It is possible for a peak human like Liquid to survive that fall, and besides, I acknowledged that the Snakes MAY have some degree of enhanced damage soak or durability.

2. Rex is not "hundreds" of tons. And for another thing, why the hell are we giving Big Boss Solid Snake's feats? And nothing there says that Gray Fox can punch as hard as Volgin. With a High Frequency Blade, yeah, he could probably cut through damn near anything. In MGS3...Naked Snake did NOTHING that says he should ever be able to beat Volgin.

3. Snake caught Volgin off guard and took him down and had a gun pointed at him. Then Boss took him down. And dude, Boss did nothing very crippling to Snake. Volgin then got up, and in two hits had Snake fvcked up. And Snake fell down during that beating, Volgin just kept on picking him back up. I have SEEN the video. Snake was fvcked in two or three hits, and was unable to defend himself.

so a field of flowers turning blood red and the BOSS's own scars turning into three white snakes{which can also be FOUND in the fight, and are named solid. liquid and solidus snake respectively} are just dramatic VISUALS?! lmao, nice way of sidestepping the question. it was clearly supernatural, and the sorrow only appeared to be with the soul of the boss. the scars were hers, the supernatural aspect was HERS. the joy.

metal gear rex isnt BIG?!?!?! you have to climb over 4 stories to get to his HEAD{and not four flours, since each ladder is a helluva lot more than 12 feat high} . and this is when it is CROUCHED DOWN to the max. even liquid said "at this height it will kill even you!" it wasnt the fact that he CUD survive the fall, it was the fact that he CUDNT die unless snake died, it postmodernism, it the marriage of physics and mysticism. you jus cant seem to accept that.

2. now you are really full of CRAP. rex is hundreds upon HUNDREDS of tonns. it the size of a friggin building and a behemoth of thick armour and metal! ur seriosuly crazy if u think it isnt hundreds of tons.

we are not giving big boss snake's feats, we are merely commenting on the series in which snake can take on gray fox in hand to hand and what gray fox was capable of doing, dont try and turn the argument around a senseless bend to obscure it please.

in both mgs 3 and portable ops he has done a lot of things to be able to beat volgin.

3. he didnt catch him off guard,{unless u call the deceptiveness of jujitsu, catching sum1 off guard} volgin had a gun pointed at him. the boss disturbed his composure, and dominance and THEN volgin took him down by hitting him AGAIN and AGAIN, and AGAIN. it wasnt a couple of hits as u say, i can give u the video if u want. and snake only went down after the last one. and then snake wen for some PAYBACK, as he himself said.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Yep. Just another advantage he has over Big Boss.

2. Nope.

3. Cool. Good feat for Raiden. Not Big Boss.

4. Yes, they are. Big Boss only beats him in skill.

5. He apparently is in quickness and reflexes, going by those things we call feats.

6. The Cobra Unit's members are nowhere near as powerful as Volgin by feats. The only one who is is Sorrow, and that was after death. Can't comment on Portable Ops, never played, PSP broke.

1. no he lost with that advantage to raiden, uneless ur suggesting now that a rooki raiden{who was MEANT to be the new rookia as kojima himself said} was in mgs2, greater than the greatest soldier of the 20th century, big boss and solid snake, then i guess u have no argument

2. yep

3. big boss is above raiden in all stats

4. incorrect

5. no he isnt. play the twin snakes, ull find out a thing or two about reflexes of snake. similarly, play portable ops and ull find out a thing or two about the reflexes of big boss againt gene and null. dont reply without playing those games.

6. play portable ops, then comment. the joy is greater than volgin, postmodernism again

Originally posted by CosmicSurfer
Are you kidding me? You're telling me that Raiden and Olga's human reflexes are superhuman to begin with and have nothing to do with the exosuit. Where in the world did you get this? That is preposterous.

Neither can't *continously* parry bullets without the exosuit. They can at best parry only a few bullets.

Did you even play the game??!?!?! The very first thing they mention about Solidus in both MGS2 and MGS4 is that Solidus is the PERFECT Clone and he has both dominant and recessive genes. Seriously, what game did you play? You don't even have the basics right.

And what proof do you have that Snake is above Raiden?

they are human, and thats what human means in MGS. raiden can block continuous machine gun fire from multiple tengus as well as the turrets fire fro, rays. ALSO, what do u think of SOLIDUS'S reflexes. he obviously is human, even with his suit, he didnt have a helmet on or ANYTHING which cud have enhanced his REFLEXES, and yet he blocked the turret fire continuously. so there goes ur argument. raiden can continuously parry bullets try it out against the tengu's p-90s and metal gear rays.

they never say that solidus is the perfect clone, HE refers to HIMSELF, as the perfec t AMALGAM of solid andf liquid, but you shud know, that having ANY supressive genes, is a bad thing, in this case. liquid wanted solid's purely superior dominant genes{not realising that he had the dominant genes all the time. and was biologically ths SUPERIOR clone} and yet what u learn from the MGS games is that the person themselves play a great part in becoming who they are, which is why solid was able to beat liquid despite his inferior genes, and is called the PERFECT WARRIOR for a reason. solidus WITH an anhanced exoskeleton was BEATEN by the rooki who was chosen to SIMULATE solid snake. raiden WITHOUT any exoskeleton beat solidus in combat. doesnt that tell u sumthing about solidus. doesnt the fact that he was the FIRST one to age prematurely tell u sumthing about solidus, he is the most INFERIOR clone of big boss. unless ur gonna say that a rookie human raiden was above bog boss and solid snake. u have no argument.

they never say that solidus is the perfect clone, HE refers to HIMSELF, as the perfec t AMALGAM of solid andf liquid

*clears throat*
http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/guns%2Bpatriots%2Bending/video/x65x3f_mgs4-guns-of-the-patriots-snake-end_videogames

Skip to around 3:20.
Big Boss says plain as effin' day that Solidus was THE "perfect clone.".

Fail. GTFO.

1. no he lost with that advantage to raiden, uneless ur suggesting now that a rooki raiden{who was MEANT to be the new rookia as kojima himself said} was in mgs2, greater than the greatest soldier of the 20th century, big boss and solid snake, then i guess u have no argument

Solidus actually never fought his best in that fight. Notice in the preparation for the fight he did not pump up his muscles to increase strength and speed.

And Kojima said Raiden and Snake are equal.

3. big boss is above raiden in all stats

Show me Big Boss deflecting bullets.

6. play portable ops, then comment. the joy is greater than volgin, postmodernism again

Volgin could pop her head like that flea-ridden mutt popped her cherry when she was a kid.
Yes I am sure she was into doggy style sex...quite literally.

solidus WITH an anhanced exoskeleton was BEATEN by the rooki who was chosen to SIMULATE solid snake.

And Solidus was CHOSEN to simulate Big Boss.
What does that tell you?

doesnt the fact that he was the FIRST one to age prematurely tell u sumthing about solidus, he is the most INFERIOR clone of big boss. unless ur gonna say that a rookie human raiden was above bog boss and solid snake. u have no argument.

Are you a fan of forced sterilization?
Because you are a poster child for it.

{liquid showd a hint of it, by his blonde hair, this was due to advanced aging, his actual hair colour is brown, just like snake}

Mods please ban this liar. This statement he just pulled right out his ass. He kept it right next to his head.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
1. no he lost with that advantage to raiden, uneless ur suggesting now that a rooki raiden{who was MEANT to be the new rookia as kojima himself said} was in mgs2, greater than the greatest soldier of the 20th century, big boss and solid snake, then i guess u have no argument

2. yep

3. big boss is above raiden in all stats

4. incorrect

5. no he isnt. play the twin snakes, ull find out a thing or two about reflexes of snake. similarly, play portable ops and ull find out a thing or two about the reflexes of big boss againt gene and null. dont reply without playing those games.

6. play portable ops, then comment. the joy is greater than volgin, postmodernism again

2. Nah.

3. That's bullshit. Show me Big Boss deflecting Machinegun bullets from friggin Metal Gear Ray or sumthin comparable. Goin by that Raiden not only has better reflexes, he is STRONGER. Get your head outta Big Boss' ass, you don't deserve him.

4. No it isn't. What else does Big Boss have him beat in?

5. Or you can post the proof what with the burden of proof being on you.

6. Volgin is strong enough to literally punch her head off, is much more versatile and powerful, and definately more durable.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
so a field of flowers turning blood red and the BOSS's own scars turning into three white snakes{which can also be FOUND in the fight, and are named solid. liquid and solidus snake respectively} are just dramatic VISUALS?! lmao, nice way of sidestepping the question. it was clearly supernatural, and the sorrow only appeared to be with the soul of the boss. the scars were hers, the supernatural aspect was HERS. the joy.

metal gear rex isnt BIG?!?!?! you have to climb over 4 stories to get to his HEAD{and not four flours, since each ladder is a helluva lot more than 12 feat high} . and this is when it is CROUCHED DOWN to the max. even liquid said "at this height it will kill even you!" it wasnt the fact that he CUD survive the fall, it was the fact that he CUDNT die unless snake died, it postmodernism, it the marriage of physics and mysticism. you jus cant seem to accept that.

2. now you are really full of CRAP. rex is hundreds upon HUNDREDS of tonns. it the size of a friggin building and a behemoth of thick armour and metal! ur seriosuly crazy if u think it isnt hundreds of tons.

we are not giving big boss snake's feats, we are merely commenting on the series in which snake can take on gray fox in hand to hand and what gray fox was capable of doing, dont try and turn the argument around a senseless bend to obscure it please.

in both mgs 3 and portable ops he has done a lot of things to be able to beat volgin.

3. he didnt catch him off guard,{unless u call the deceptiveness of jujitsu, catching sum1 off guard} volgin had a gun pointed at him. the boss disturbed his composure, and dominance and THEN volgin took him down by hitting him AGAIN and AGAIN, and AGAIN. it wasnt a couple of hits as u say, i can give u the video if u want. and snake only went down after the last one. and then snake wen for some PAYBACK, as he himself said.

1. Okay. Let's just say Boss did do that. Let's just say. What in the FVCK would that do to help her in a fight!? All sending those snakes out did apparently was friggin give Big Boss some food. Useful fvcking power that is. Oh and btw...The scar turning into a snake, happened AFTER the fight.

So now Liquid cannot die unless Snake does? Bull. Shit. Considering he IS dead. Concerivably, a peak human like Liquid could survive that fall.

2. I'm sorry...But it is just that in MGS4, it didn't look anywhere near that big.

Kay...And based on what they have done, they should not be able to beat powerhouses like Volgin, or Gray Fox for that matter. Though I was originally only arguing Big Boss, YOU brought up the other Snake's, so it would be YOU who is trying to obscure the real argument jack.

Like what?

3. He just shot Sokolov, then right when he pointed it back at Snake, Snake took him down. Volgin had beaten Snake in the first few hits. He was unable to defend himself. That's a TKO in boxing or MMA rules. Oh, and Volgin knocked Snake down at least twice. Get the vid. Prove yourself wrong.

Eh DJ.
You are obviously biased.

You want some of the hot commie electic buttsecks.