Big Boss vs Solidus Snake

*clears throat*
http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/guns%2Bpatriots%2Bending/video/x65x3f_mgs4-guns-of-the-patriots-snake-end_videogames

Skip to around 3:20.
Big Boss says plain as effin' day that Solidus was THE "perfect clone.".

Fail. GTFO.

you DUMASS! he was the perfect clone, PERFECT, in the sense that he had both dominant AND recessive genes and was a perfect COPY. his perfection did not lie in his superior BIOLOGY, just like the perfect copy of a can of trash is another can of trash. as far as PERFORMANCE goes, him having the dominant AND the recessive alleales didnt seem to go well for him, {as opposed to liquid and solid, who both either had all recessive or all dominant} as he was the first one to age prematurely, {which is why hes so old in MGS2} . the next to follow was the mosty genetically SUPERIOR clone of big boss, liquid snake, who only had premature aging as far as his hair were concerned{yes hes not naturally blonde, all snakes are IDENTICAL in looks, it was the premature aging which turned his hair from brown to whispy white}, and the last{and perhaps the most GENETICALLY inferior in the technical sense} was solid snake, with the recessive genes of big boss, but due to the technicalities of cloning, he was the LAST one to age prematurely, hence being the best suited biologically. also, if you were listening to naomi, she explains that genes arent the only thing that define us, its the decisions we make, {which is also why, she says its upto SNAKE, when he dies even when affected by foxdie}. postmodernism again.

Solidus actually never fought his best in that fight. Notice in the preparation for the fight he did not pump up his muscles to increase strength and speed.

And Kojima said Raiden and Snake are equal.

now your just plain out LYING. WHAT earthly reason did solidus have to not fight his best?!?!?!? he DID pump his muscles, and he pumps them even MORE, when he forces off his tentacles{which can easily be seen, he forces them off BY pumping his artificial muscles} and he was using his accelarater. he fought his absolute best and he LOST, get over it. i dont ever remember kojima saying that snake and raiden were equal in MGS2.

Show me Big Boss deflecting bullets.

idiotic debating tactic. show me that you can survive being shot in your ankle! if u cant then i dont beleive its possivle that u can live through it! baka!

Volgin could pop her head like that flea-ridden mutt popped her cherry when she was a kid.
Yes I am sure she was into doggy style sex...quite literally.

lmao, is that why he was scared and hesistant of accusing her? is that also why the boss beat HIS ass to the ground with ease before he inquired{is that some form of judo?}. there was a reason the boss, was the final adversary.

And Solidus was CHOSEN to simulate Big Boss.
What does that tell you?

that he was the only SNAKE who had a conflicted father-son relationship with raiden maybe?! or did u forget that? raiden had to kill him just like snake killed big boss. it had nuthing to do with stats.

Are you a fan of forced sterilization?
Because you are a poster child for it.

stfu and answerr the fockin question mate!

Mods please ban this liar. This statement he just pulled right out his ass. He kept it right next to his head.

naah, u just dont know much about MGS. liquid had grey hair, it was his premature aging that gave him wispy white hair{which make it seem like hes a natural blonde, but he isnt. its the same premature aging as solidus and old snake.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. No. But he has a High Frequency Blade and is a better swordsman. He severed Solidus' spine with it. Sumthin Big Boss can't replicate.

2. Nah.

3. That's bullshit. Show me Big Boss deflecting Machinegun bullets from friggin Metal Gear Ray or sumthin comparable. Goin by that Raiden not only has better reflexes, he is STRONGER. Get your head outta Big Boss' ass, you don't deserve him.

4. No it isn't. What else does Big Boss have him beat in?

5. Or you can post the proof what with the burden of proof being on you.

6. Volgin is strong enough to literally punch her head off, is much more versatile and powerful, and definately more durable.

1. so did solidus. he had two, among other thing. and he still lost. doesnt that tell u sumthing about how it wud go between the real big boss and solidus?

2. incorrect answer

3. idiotic debating tactic. show me you surviving a dunshot to your right hand, otherwise, ill continue to beleive that u cant.
you havent played portable ops, so u wudnt know the kind of reflexes it takes to take on null or gene.

4. big boss has him beat in everything

5. or you can just play portable ops and not depend on me to give you every fight and cutscene in the entire game lazy ass. or you can just watch the cutscenes of the fights in twin snakes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haJvYx8sjNY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6kLSqIOJ80&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncOTnpDQ1MQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AL3Ge4MOIUM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AL3Ge4MOIUM&feature=related

{ill be posting more}

6. boss beat volgin's ass to the ground if u remember.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Okay seriously, spellcheck is your fvckin friend, cause I can barely read this shit.

1. Okay. Let's just say Boss did do that. Let's just say. What in the FVCK would that do to help her in a fight!? All sending those snakes out did apparently was friggin give Big Boss some food. Useful fvcking power that is. Oh and btw...The scar turning into a snake, happened AFTER the fight.

So now Liquid cannot die unless Snake does? Bull. Shit. Considering he IS dead. Concerivably, a peak human like Liquid could survive that fall.

2. I'm sorry...But it is just that in MGS4, it didn't look anywhere near that big.

Kay...And based on what they have done, they should not be able to beat powerhouses like Volgin, or Gray Fox for that matter. Though I was originally only arguing Big Boss, YOU brought up the other Snake's, so it would be YOU who is trying to obscure the real argument jack.

Like what?

3. He just shot Sokolov, then right when he pointed it back at Snake, Snake took him down. Volgin had beaten Snake in the first few hits. He was unable to defend himself. That's a TKO in boxing or MMA rules. Oh, and Volgin knocked Snake down at least twice. Get the vid. Prove yourself wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2oZnoxWTqA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPgnie50hd8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udUQ8U1STQQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4CTBIo0Mxk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4CTBIo0Mxk&feature=related

and sum screenshots/cutscenes from portable ops {cannon}

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOS6s28wvmg&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpU4UqOm3bI&feature=related

basically gene{if u can actually see the gameplay footage} makes vamp look like a baby a baby with toys and ursula is a psychic powerful enough to remotely power and fully function metal gear. and gene even while she is telepathically reading his thoughts, is so strong and hs body so fast, that she stil cudnt stop him from thrusting a knife right into her heart. oh hey, he is also a powerful psychic and the one who was the genetic basis for the GENOME soldiers. big boss, beat his ass. as well as null.{who gene beat with ease}

1. it wasnt an argument about what wud help or not in a fight, it was an argument about the nature of NORMAL HUMANS, and what they can and cant do in the MGSverse and also, about how that pairs them up against confirmed superhumans. and apparently u cant adequately counter, so u go with saying "so what?!" .

yes liquid cud not die unless solid dies, that was the genetic FATE that intertwined them{dont try so hard to make sense of it, postmodernism doesnt always make complete sense, remember, its a video game} he lived till foxdie took him in mgs1, then continued to live on in the arm for ocelot, and then later, in the psche of ocelot, backed ny hynosis and self suggestion, his WILL continued to live. until ocelot's death. in which case, snake with his decision, sort of ESCAPED his destiny in a philosophical manner of speaking.

2. oh my GOD, how much more evidence do i have to give you?! the fall from the head of rex is FATAL, for any human!

based on what ive shown u, u shud understand that they arent humans like US.

3. snake was beaten first by boss, and lost compusure, then he was beaten continuously by volgin and gettigng back up before he was finally beaten down.a nd then later, he BEAT volgin in hand to hand, just like he beat gene. basically, big boss, beats solidus.

you DUMASS! he was the perfect clone, PERFECT, in the sense that he had both dominant AND recessive genes and was a perfect COPY. his perfection did not lie in his superior BIOLOGY

Stop embarrassing yourself. You said:
I quote you on the last page:
"they never say that solidus is the perfect clone,"

I proved you completely in the wrong. Just admit it.

now your just plain out LYING. WHAT earthly reason did solidus have to not fight his best?!?!?!? he DID pump his muscles, and he pumps them even MORE, when he forces off his tentacles{which can easily be seen, he forces them off BY pumping his artificial muscles}

No he didn't pump his muscles to start off with. Not once in the preceding cutscene to the fight with Raiden did he do it. As for when he loses the snake-arms...I can't tell there. But I'll check.

idiotic debating tactic. show me that you can survive being shot in your ankle! if u cant then i dont beleive its possivle that u can live through it! baka![]/quote]

Irrelevant misdirection. Debating goes on what the characters can do based on quotes and showings.
Solidus deflected bullets.
Big Boss did not.
Therefore Solidus is superior.

[quote]lmao, is that why he was scared and hesistant of accusing her? is that also why the boss beat HIS ass to the ground with ease before he inquired{is that some form of judo?}. there was a reason the boss, was the final adversary.

And the final adversary of MGS1 was Liquid...does that mean he's tougher than Metal Gear REX?

Anyway, she knoked him down once when he wasn't even expecting it. He then got up and was completely unharmed.
So she did nothing but cheapshot him.

1. so did solidus. he had two, among other thing. and he still lost. doesnt that tell u sumthing about how it wud go between the real big boss and solidus?

No because we never saw Big Boss use a sword.

6. boss beat volgin's ass to the ground if u remember.

You mean this?
YouTube video

A. He wasn't even looking at her.
2. Her takedown did not harm him in the least.

Oh yeah...she owned him with her ineffectual cheapshot.

basically gene{if u can actually see the gameplay footage} makes vamp look like a baby a baby with toys and ursula is a psychic powerful enough to remotely power and fully function metal gear. and gene even while she is telepathically reading his thoughts, is so strong and hs body so fast, that she stil cudnt stop him from thrusting a knife right into her heart. oh hey, he is also a powerful psychic and the one who was the genetic basis for the GENOME soldiers. big boss, beat his ass. as well as null.{who gene beat with ease}

Vamp effortlessly twirled around automatic gunfire that was directly in front of him. These guns fired at a rate far faster than those used in the 1970s.

my previous reply never made it so ill try to keep it brief.

perfection in this case means perfection of copyig genes. not perfection of the genes themselves. liquid has the most perfect genes in terms of performance.

he pumped his muscles which forced off his tentacles.

she owned him reguardless, she isnt called the greatest soldier in history for no reason, she wud judo his ass and fill his face with lead before he even got a chance to react.

and WOW, u know NUTHING about guns do u. lemme enlighten you, in terms of practical firearms, there havent been any major breakthroughs for personal firearms since after the second world war. the A-R 15 the precursor of the M-16, has been around since after the second world war, as has been the akm which was th precursor to the A-k 47. both of these weapons{specially the ar-15} had firing rates even higher than todays ak variants and m-16/m-4. the patriot, which is a super compact version of the m-16 has been around since the 60s and packs a bigger punch than today's p-90{the gun solidus and the arsenal tengus and the frogs used} the p-90 as a slower firing rate as well as less bullet pentration or energy as compared to the m-16 or the patriot. it was basically developed as a personal defence weapon to have the advanatges of a submachine gun/machine pistol with the penetrating power of a rifle. in the 1980s. the thing about firing rates is that we havent invented hammer space since the 19050s and as such, firing rates have to be kept low as to not finish the magazine of bullets in a single burst. only good thing about the p-90 is that it has a 50 round magazine, albeit it has the problem of jamming. so what vamp did wasnt any better in the time than in 1960s. and gene was stronger than vamp in every way other than perhaps healing.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
he was the perfect clone, PERFECT, in the sense that he had both dominant AND recessive genes and was a perfect COPY. his perfection did not lie in his superior BIOLOGY, just like the perfect copy of a can of trash is another can of trash. as far as PERFORMANCE goes, him having the dominant AND the recessive alleales didnt seem to go well for him, {as opposed to liquid and solid, who both either had all recessive or all dominant} as he was the first one to age prematurely, {which is why hes so old in MGS2}

So in other words, you're saying that Big Boss is more skilled than Solidus? And you're basing this on the fact that Solidus got his ass kicked by Raiden, right? Well, a rookie Solid Snake beat Big Boss as well. Raiden was *personally* trained by Solidus, saying " I taught him everything he knew, his skills..he learned from me". I'm paraphrasing here, but it's similar. He was the best child soldier in Solidus's boy unit. Raiden's outstanding kill record earned him the names " Jack the Ripper" and "White Devil". Mind you, this is *child* Raiden here. Raiden is far from an average rookie. Hell, he's not even a rookie at all to begin with. Just like how a young Solid Snake was personally trained by Big Boss himself. Put two and two together, Raiden and Solidus is the exact same simulation of a young Solid Snake and Big Boss. This is why Ocelot and the Patriots choose Raiden because of his direct similarity with a young Solid Snake. One was trained by the perfect clone, the other was trained by the original himself.

MGS n00b here....when did it say that Solid was trained by Big Boss?

In Metal Gear Big Boss was the head of Foxhound which Snake was apart of and in MGS4 Snake told Otacon that he learned CQC from Big Boss personally

oh...thanx man.
seems the Boss's love to get their ass handed to them by their favorite disciples 😆

Originally posted by CosmicSurfer
So in other words, you're saying that Big Boss is more skilled than Solidus? And you're basing this on the fact that Solidus got his ass kicked by Raiden, right? Well, a rookie Solid Snake beat Big Boss as well. Raiden was *personally* trained by Solidus, saying " I taught him everything he knew, his skills..he learned from me". I'm paraphrasing here, but it's similar. He was the best child soldier in Solidus's boy unit. Raiden's outstanding kill record earned him the names " Jack the Ripper" and "White Devil". Mind you, this is *child* Raiden here. Raiden is far from an average rookie. Hell, he's not even a rookie at all to begin with. Just like how a young Solid Snake was personally trained by Big Boss himself. Put two and two together, Raiden and Solidus is the exact same simulation of a young Solid Snake and Big Boss. This is why Ocelot and the Patriots choose Raiden because of his direct similarity with a young Solid Snake. One was trained by the perfect clone, the other was trained by the original himself.

i taught him everything "he" knows. is different from, i taught him everything "i" know. solid snake was not a rookie when he beat big boss. he had already been through the first metal gear's storyline. and had been in many missions beforehand for the special forces. and was already a legendary soldier, second only to gray fox in rank in foxhound. also, you are forgetting that raiden wasnt a clone of the greatest soldier that ever lived, nor was he bred to be the greatest soldier, unlike the les enfante terrible project. snake grew up in an orphanaga and was sooon taken up by the military. the only similarity for which they chose raiden was that he was the only one that qualified for the role of student/master, father/son with solidus snake. it didnt have anything to do with power. also, snake wasnt just trained by big boss, he was trained by many including frank yeager.

big boss is more skilled than solidus, but also, big biss doest suffer from the setbacks of CLONING which made solidus age prematurely.

*Sigh*

How will Big Boss defeat Solidus when his armor has proven that can bounce off bullets(If he didn't feel the need to deflect them with the dual katanas), when his muscles are enhanced, and he also managed to shrugoff a grenade exploding in front of him--one fired by none other than Solid Snake--, and when Big Boss has absolutely no means of cutting the suit's spine to stop Solidus from controlling it. Also did I mention the MGS database states that Solidus's suit can protect him from ANY and ALL harm. Even if we give Big Boss the HF blade we have never seen him using a sword in combat(as far as I am concerned).

Face the facts...Solidus has everything he needs, and more, to defeat his father.

I used to be all fanboyish and believed Solid Snake could have defeated Solidus if they fought, but after the database came out and explained in detail how Solidus's suit works and how Raiden managed to defeat him it became obvious Solid Snake, and thus Big Boss, since I consider them equals cannot beat him UNLESS they show skills with a blade and of course do get the High-Frequency blade.

Also about Solidus's premature aging...it didn't stop him from ****ing Rays with a P90 in his suit. That is the sole purpose of the suit to enhance his weakened muscles--kindda like Old Snake in MGS4, but alas Solidus being a former president etc. clearly got his hands on a high-tech suit. besides I am not that convinced that he age was that accelerated. He could've just dyed his hair in order to look lik BB. I'll check the MGS database to see f they give some info on this.

^there is no evidence that he dyed his hair. also he has white hair in mgs1 when he appears as the president in codec. also remember that RAIDEN did not have any sword training before hand either, wierd as it might seem. and again, naked snake has defeated faster, stronger and more durable foes.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
you DUMASS! he was the perfect clone, PERFECT, in the sense that he had both dominant AND recessive genes and was a perfect COPY. his perfection did not lie in his superior BIOLOGY, just like the perfect copy of a can of trash is another can of trash. as far as PERFORMANCE goes, him having the dominant AND the recessive alleales didnt seem to go well for him, {as opposed to liquid and solid, who both either had all recessive or all dominant} as he was the first one to age prematurely, {which is why hes so old in MGS2} . the next to follow was the mosty genetically SUPERIOR clone of big boss, liquid snake, who only had premature aging as far as his hair were concerned{yes hes not naturally blonde, all snakes are IDENTICAL in looks, it was the premature aging which turned his hair from brown to whispy white}, and the last{and perhaps the most GENETICALLY inferior in the technical sense} was solid snake, with the recessive genes of big boss, but due to the technicalities of cloning, he was the LAST one to age prematurely, hence being the best suited biologically. also, if you were listening to naomi, she explains that genes arent the only thing that define us, its the decisions we make, {which is also why, she says its upto SNAKE, when he dies even when affected by foxdie}. postmodernism again.

now your just plain out LYING. WHAT earthly reason did solidus have to not fight his best?!?!?!? he DID pump his muscles, and he pumps them even MORE, when he forces off his tentacles{which can easily be seen, he forces them off BY pumping his artificial muscles} and he was using his accelarater. he fought his absolute best and he LOST, get over it. i dont ever remember kojima saying that snake and raiden were equal in MGS2.

idiotic debating tactic. show me that you can survive being shot in your ankle! if u cant then i dont beleive its possivle that u can live through it! baka!

lmao, is that why he was scared and hesistant of accusing her? is that also why the boss beat HIS ass to the ground with ease before he inquired{is that some form of judo?}. there was a reason the boss, was the final adversary.

that he was the only SNAKE who had a conflicted father-son relationship with raiden maybe?! or did u forget that? raiden had to kill him just like snake killed big boss. it had nuthing to do with stats.

stfu and answerr the fockin question mate!

naah, u just dont know much about MGS. liquid had grey hair, it was his premature aging that gave him wispy white hair{which make it seem like hes a natural blonde, but he isnt. its the same premature aging as solidus and old snake.

That's not completely true. Liquid's hair is natural blond and so is Snake. most likely because of their mother Eva.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
^there is no evidence that he dyed his hair. also he has white hair in mgs1 when he appears as the president in codec. also remember that RAIDEN did not have any sword training before hand either, wierd as it might seem. and again, naked snake has defeated faster, stronger and more durable foes.

Hmm Solidus NEVER appeared in a codec conversation in MGS1. That was the secretary of defense. Only time we hear George Sears aka SOLIDUS SNAKE is at the end of the credits when he talks with Ocelot.

Raiden must have had training in order to use the sword lik he did AND he does use it in the game. What more evidence do we need?

Naked Snake/Big Boss on the other hand has none of those.

The Snakes are full of PIS. They keep on beating opponents they have no chance against.

---

I remember that in the original MGS Solid Snake does cut and dye his hair in order to avoid looking like Liquid Snake.

---

I recommend you give it up.

liquid's hair isnt natural blonde, its premature aging which makes it blonde. solid's hair are brown. he only cuts them before going to shadow moses. all snake's have physical characteristics identical to big boss, and the same with the hair colour.

and you are using circular reasoning, raiden is seen to be decent with a blade, hence he MUST have had blade training even though nuthing in the game gives positive hints towards it? thats flawed logic.

snakes arent full of PIS. they arent inconcistant enough for PIS.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
liquid's hair isnt natural blonde, its premature aging which makes it blonde. solid's hair are brown. he only cuts them before going to shadow moses. all snake's have physical characteristics identical to big boss, and the same with the hair colour.

and you are using circular reasoning, raiden is seen to be decent with a blade, hence he MUST have had blade training even though nuthing in the game gives positive hints towards it? thats flawed logic.

snakes arent full of PIS. they arent inconcistant enough for PIS.

Where was it stated that Liquid's natural hair is not blonde and that it turned white because of the aging? Blonde hair is a reccessive trait, my friend. Which is why Liquid Snake has the hair like that.

Flawed? Raiden was trained by Solidus himself when he was a child. And what do we see Solidus wield in Sons of Liberty? Dual Katanas go figure. Also why exactly would Solidus hand Raiden the HF blade if he didn't know Jack would have been able to defend himself with it?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
[B]i taught him everything "he" knows. is different from, i taught him everything "i" know.

That's up to speculation. Can you prove that he didn't teach Raiden everything he(solidus) knew.

solid snake was not a rookie when he beat big boss. he had already been through the first metal gear's storyline. and had been in many missions beforehand for the special forces.

I'm not sure about this. But can you please show me some proof.

and was already a legendary soldier, second only to gray fox in rank in foxhound.

Snake beats Gray fox's ass like a rented mule even when Fox was wearing an exosuit. Fox isn't above him.

also, you are forgetting that raiden wasnt a clone of the greatest soldier that ever lived, nor was he bred to be the greatest soldier, unlike the les enfante terrible project. snake grew up in an orphanaga and was sooon taken up by the military.

You of all people should know that genes don't mean everything. Besides, Solid Snake has the inferior genes of the Big Boss and he kicked his ass twice. Either way, you're wrong.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Where was it stated that Liquid's natural hair is not blonde and that it turned white because of the aging? Blonde hair is a reccessive trait, my friend. Which is why Liquid Snake has the hair like that.

In one of the beginning cutscenes in MGS1, Solid originally had long blond hair as well.

Which means he dyed his hair. I knew Solid dyed his hair, but he said Liquid's hair was originally brown and then went blonde thanks to the accelerated aging.

He is got it all wrong.