Originally posted by RobtardKay. Sure, he can beat Joker in a one on one gunfight.
He's taken on a multitude of highly trained and heavily armed terrorist, he clearly has the upper hand when it comes to a gun battle in regards to the Joker. He's also out-done Hans Gruber, who was a mastermind.Joker's only change would be dumb luck, like John slipping on a banana peel.
He out did Hans Gruber, who is not as smart as Joker, as good of a fighter as Joker, and is held back by his greed, unlike Joker. If Hans wanted to, he could have left the building on the ambulance and had it blown up, but no, Hans wanted the money. It is easily in Joker's character to do that.
No one has yet to explain how Mclane would counter that.
Wanna know why?
He couldn't.
But no, people will continue to grasp onto the humorous idea that because Mclane is a "ZOMG Ub3r B@d@55!!!" he wins.
Why is Hans, and his brother, not as smart as Joker?
And your "leaving in an ambulance" plan would result in him getting shot. 😬
Your not making any sense. Not every one is as ungodly stupid ****ing retarded as Gotham's police force is. Your basing Joker's intelligence on him outsmarting a bunch of idiots who were afraid to kill him or were surrounded by their own men.. the Joker has yet to straight up beat someone who wasn't being held back for whatever reason or wasn't in a false sense of security. When Batman finally went after him and was sick of his shit, Joker went down... in half an hour.
Originally posted by AngryManatee
John launches car filled with gasoline off median, car flies up and crashes into an airliner filled with terrorists, which subsequently crashes onto joker. Joker fails.
Originally posted by AngryManatee
He does it at just the right angle so that it only picks off the joker.
Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk1. Gee, I don't know, maybe cause he doesn't have any planning feats that even begin to rival Joker's? I mean Jesus Christ, the guy was killed cause Mclane made him laugh, and Mclane outsmarted him by giving him an unloaded gun in the first movie. Hans never showed himself to be as smart as Joker. In the final scene, Joker would have had MClane's ex as a hostage, as in holding her to him with a gun to her head, not to the fvckin side. Joker would have shot the fvck out of Mclane. Joker knows Mclane will kill someone unlike Batman.
Why is Hans, and his brother, not as smart as Joker?And your "leaving in an ambulance" plan would result in him getting shot. 😬
Your not making any sense. Not every one is as ungodly stupid ****ing retarded as Gotham's police force is.
Oh, and also humor me, wtf would happen to Mclane if Joker sent three dogs at Mclane? Don't just say he would shoot them all, he's not that fast.
Oh, and even though it would likely never come to this, if Joker got into a fistfight with Mclane, Joker would win. 🙂
2. Really? Cause that was that "ZOMGENIUS!!!" Han's plan all along, escaping in a fvcking ambulance. But it would have worked with Hans though, right? 🙄
3. They sure as hell were in Diehard.
Originally posted by Blax_HydraliskI'm basing his intelligence on being so far ahead of everyone else(including BAtman) in planning.
Your basing Joker's intelligence on him outsmarting a bunch of idiots who were afraid to kill him or were surrounded by their own men.. the Joker has yet to straight up beat someone who wasn't being held back for whatever reason or wasn't in a false sense of security. When Batman finally went after him and was sick of his shit, Joker went down... in half an hour.
BAtman>>>Mclane in nearly all areas, the only thing that Mclane has over BAtman is he is willing to kill, but that is it.
Oh, and Joker had Batman pinned down and at his mercy. But he never wanted to kill Batman by his own words. Joker beat the shit out of Batman, who is a far superior fighter than Mclane btw.
And I LOVE how you say Joker's men can't jump him cause he is in a fvcking skyscraper, but Mclane can somehow aquire a friggin truck in the skysraper and run Joker down with it. Humorous, really.
John gets to the top and gets torn to pieces by 3 very rabid dogs and jokers scary kitchen knife. Seriously, hes got to shoot them all before:
A: The Joker shots him, or
B: The Dogs get to him
And even then, John's shot-first approach would end up with him shooting the dressed-up hostages himself, Joker still wins. Morally at least.
But the Joker would be able to come up with a master plan pretty quick. I like the one with him dressing as hostage. It's just like the Joker.
The Joker WTFpwns John. Because:
1. Heath Ledger >>>>>>> Bruce Willis
2. TDK is the best movie EVA!!11!! (Seriously, though, it WAS awesome)
3. The Joker can makes pencils disappear.
That being said, now, for a more serious explanation:
1)What would prevent Johnny from going berserk in the building, murdering all of Mr. J's henchmen, and when finally facing him, the Joker just shoots him? Seriously, though, the Joker isn't a moron. He could even hide and attack him, leave just his crazy dogs there, or something along the lines of that. Even if McLane DOES manage to shoot them all, say the Joker jumps him and slashes him into small pieces, or just beats him up? He did that to Batman, who is a far, far better hand-to-hand fighter than John.
2) Same result as above, if John even makes it past the loads of henchmen.
John was able to survive a building full of merc-terrorists actively trying to find and kill him, they couldn't, he stayed hidden and slowly picked them off. With him on the hunt in this scenario, the Joker and probably a sizable amount of his thugs will be shot dead.
John is also a far superior shot than the Joker. The Joker would need to get close to stab or slash him with a knife, John would shoot long before that happened.
Sorry, the only way the Joker survives is because people are just to stupid to shoot him when given the chance. John doesn't have that "moral" problem.
Edit: When did the Joker "beat up" Batman?
1. Considering there won't be a sizable difference between them, and the Joker is certainly not a bad shot, what difference does that make? And besides, knowing the Joker's level of intelligence, he more than likely won't just stand there and wait for John to shoot him. He could hide, he could, as already said, disguise himself as a hostage, and he could surprise him with his nice doggies.
2. In that case, I don't suppose the mercs were dressed up as hostages? Even if he hides and 'slowly picks them off', shooting one of the supposed henchmen will alert the real ones to his presence. He will, at least, have a load of difficulty getting past them. He might even get injured, or sumthin' along the lines of that.
3. I don't think I need to argue with you on the fact that Joker will pwn John in hand-to-hand/knife combat, do I?
How do you know the Joker isn't a bad shot? Either way, John is highly skilled with guns; shooting bad guys is what he's about. Hans Gruber was also a mastermind, yet John survived his machinations.
Yea, they'll be alerted just like the merc-terrorist in the Die Hard movies, he still managed to evade them and come back killing. Not sure why you think Joker's street thugs would be more capable than highly trained military men. Odd.
I asked you when did the Joker "beat up" Batman, as you claimed?
Hans Gruber was a mastermind with no feats to put him on even half the level Joker was in terms of scheming.
Joker hides as a hostage among the hostages, shoots John dead.
Joker makes his thugs dress like the hostages, and makes the hostages look like the thugs, keeps them all in one room, and then as John is shooting hostages, the thugs shoot him dead.
Or Joker could just sick three dogs on John and beat him with a pipe. That would be funny.
Or, my personal favorite scenario, he leaves the building on an ambulance like Hans was planning to and blows up the building.
Originally posted by Robtard
How do you know the Joker isn't a bad shot? Either way, John is highly skilled with guns; shooting bad guys is what he's about. Hans Gruber was also a mastermind, yet John survived his machinations.
As Jaxx noted, Hans doesn't have half of the Joker's smarts, creativty, or, most importantly, unpredictability. Do you really think that John surviving the machinations of a lesser man than the Joker will necessarily mean that he can survive the Joker's?
Besides, considering the fact that the distance between the two is very small, the Joker- obviously able to competently handle himself with a gun (you saw the fact that he killed multiple people with guns in TDK), will be able to hit Bruce Will- sorry, John from such a distance. If the Joker was strolling down some street and John sniped him, it would be a different matter. Thankfully, it isn't the case.
Originally posted by Robtard
Yea, they'll be alerted just like the merc-terrorist in the Die Hard movies, he still managed to evade them and come back killing. Not sure why you think Joker's street thugs would be more capable than highly trained military men. Odd.
Because John doesn't know that the so-called 'captors' were in fact the hostages? And besides, how do you know the Joker won't just take off his makeup and disguise himself? He did it once in the movie. Remember, this is TDK Joker, not comic book Joker.
Originally posted by Robtard
I asked you when did the Joker "beat up" Batman, as you claimed?
End of the movie. The Joker's dogs, alone with the Joker himself, attacked Batman and beat him up pretty badly. Subsequently, Batsy knocked them all away and the Joker proceeded to pummel him with his fists and with an iron pipe, and subsequently choked with a wooden board. Which leaves the question of why the f*ck did he use a pipe instead of one of his many knives? Well, he didn't want to kill Bats... but he doesn't have the same reservation with John, does he? And this is Batman, the guy who trained as a martial artist over a long period of time by just about the most feared ninja league in the world, and subsequently spent a considerable amount of time wiping his ass with criminals. He's a far better H2H fighter than John, anyway.
Joker actually had both a pipe and a knife when he beat down Batman. Saw the movie again a couple days ago.
But regardless, Joker showed some impressive reflexes and strength in the movie.
That pencil scene showed great reflexes.
He easily restrained that cop.
And remember, Joker also has other weapons, hidden weapons like a blade that comes out of the tip of his shoe.
You people are funny.
Scheming this, Scheming that nonsense. Joker has a building with hostages, he isn't trying to pull what he did in the TDK, so your Scheming fantasies are irrelevant here, read what the trhead starter stipulated. John is undetected in the building and he's hunting the Joker and his men. If anything, the Joker would underestimate John once he found out some cop was inside, just like Hans Gruber and end up getting shot in the head.
That bit about "the has Joker dogs!" is especially moronic. Unlike Batman, John has a gun(s) and he wouldn't hesitate to shoot the dogs and the Joker dead. While we do know that the Joker, being the Joker has a flare for dramatics before he kills people, it's just what he tends to do.
The Joker never "beat up" Batman, he got a few hits in with the help of his dogs and ended up being tossed out the ****ing window for his antics, he certainly didn't win that fight.
Despite Joker's impressive showing against Batman, in hand to hand, it should be noted that he was prepared specifically for Batman, and any time he got in close, without having Batman distracted, he got knocked away farely easily.
The only shootout Joker was in was when he almost got owned by the bank teller in the beginning, and I think Mclane's a better shot than a bank teller
The Joker didn't nearly get owned, or whatever that is. And besides, I never claimed McClane isn't a better shot than the Joker; just that with the insignificant distance between them, being an 'uber shot' won't effin' matter, considering that John is supposedly inside the building butchering his henchmen; if he succeeds (which is doubtful), the Joker will know that he isn't some punk. He hides and then jumps him. Do you really think he's just gonna shoot the dogs and the the Joker like it's nothing? Really, he isn't that fast, and that's more than enough time for the Joker to shoot him, knife him, or do whatever sick sh!t he does.
As far as I can remember, the Joker initially attacked Batman with the dogs. Batman is on the ground, beaten (badly) beaten by the dogs and the Joker. He knocks them off of him, and proceeds to throw the Joker away; the Joker subsequently punches him in the face, pummels him, and pins him down. If it hadn't been for the fact that the Joker didn't want to kill Batman, or if he wasn't too busy waiting for the 'fireforks', Batman's throat could have easily been slit, or he could have been alternatively shot. That belief that Batman owned him or beat him is ridiculous.
And as far as I can remember, even after his dogs were incapacitated, the Joker beat up Batman with Batman getting many hits in; he certainly 'spiritually won' the fight despite not actually wanting to kill Batman (then again, Batman didn't wanna kill him, either...). And how the hell does it matter that he was 'prepared specifically' for Batman? Does it adapt his H2H skills?
Sorry, McClane doesn't stand a chance unless he encounters the Joker on a random street and they go into a shootout, or John snipes him.