Star Forge empowered Revan vs Exar Kun

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Whoops.

And just because Malak isn't omniscient doesn't mean that it should be thrown out of the window.

What he means is that No-one at the time could have stopped her (don't say it, I know), which is basically true.

And Revan is a guy ......I said it

B*ITCH!!! And after I specifically asked you not to as well. I know someone who's getting coal for Xmas

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
I know someone who's getting coal for Xmas

Your mother 😐

After reading up more on how Malak used the Star Forge I do not feel that this fight is so much of an unknown. Malak explain to Revan during there fight what he did in order to replenish his wounds and strength.

Revan after defeating Malak could have easily done the same. So I no longer feel that this fight is an unknown. Before someone repeats that any dark user can drain someone I have a question.

Can any dark user drain the force from someone and replenish there energy at the same time? According to Wookieepedia Force Drain and Drain Life seem to be to different techniques and not all dark users could perform both at the same time.

I do not know how canon Wookieepedia is but here a section from Wookieepedia:
Force abilities such as Drain life and Death field siphoned vitality to offer an equivalent effect of Force Healing, the difference being that the regenerative processes in the user was fueled draining the targets. Other techniques like Drain Force rekindled Force energy in the user draining those whom the power was turned upon. Some wielders of the Force were known to be able to obtain both results at the same time, like the Dark Lord of the Sith Darth Malak did in the last battle of the Jedi Civil War as he dueled his former Sith Master Revan. He used Force Drain to draw upon the power of captive Jedi who had fallen in the attack on Dantooine.

Your mother

You don't know my mamma!! You don't be talking 'bout my mamma!!!

Or I will be comming to you house and I will wee on you!!

Originally posted by Kotor3
After reading up more on how Malak used the Star Forge I do not feel that this fight is so much of an unknown.

So because Malak used the star forge this way, than does means Darth Revan will too? Le me answer that no! because there is ZERO PROOF that Darth Revan ever knew the secrets that Malak did.

Malak explain to Revan during there fight what he did in order to replenish his wounds and strength.

Revan after defeating Malak could have easily done the same. So I no longer feel that this fight is an unknown. Before someone repeats that any dark user can drain someone I have a question.

According to Wookieepedia Force Drain and Drain Life seem to be to different techniques and not all dark users could perform both at the same time.

The facts are that there is zero proof that Darth Revan knew what Malak knew about the star forge, his saber style is an unknown while know that Kun had unique style that Revan would be unfamiliar with. We know both were strong in the force but we don't have any( save for what he did to the Rakatan scouting parties) force combat related feats for Darth Revan while Kun has many more. With that in mind I can't see how anyone can objectively say that Darth Revan wins when he is almost of an unknown as most of the ancient sith.

@ Exodus

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
You don't know my mamma!! You don't be talking 'bout my mamma!!!

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
The only known combat feats he has killing two non force sensitives and what he did to a couple of Rakatan scouting parties, we don't know his saber style either therefore his power is still unknown

So because Malak used the star forge this way, than does means Darth Revan will too? Le me answer that no! because there is ZERO PROOF that Darth Revan ever knew the secrets that Malak did.

He drains the jedi of their "corrupted power "and transfers the "dark taint" to him. Don't confuse the gameplay (which we all do at times) aspect of him losing "life" as fact .

There is a big problem with your theory, Revan in kotor is a lightsider and this wouldn't drain the captive jedi even if there were any left. Furthermore if he (which is highly unlikely) it wouldn't mean shit here because there is no proof that Darth Revan knew,which is the incarnation being discussed here so, what kotor Revan does is irrelevant. Darth Revan doesn't have the future memories of Revan which is what it sounds like your implying which if that is the case is an incorrect assumption.

There is no recorded evidence that Darth Revan knew either attack. Malak did both according to wookieepedia due to the gameplay aspect of him losing "life" but his exact quote on the star forge doesn't mention anything about healing him. He says he is gaining their power/dark taint by draining them nothing about healing himself.

The facts are that there is zero proof that Darth Revan knew what Malak knew about the star forge, his saber style is an unknown while know that Kun had unique style that Revan would be unfamiliar with. We know both were strong in the force but we don't have any( save for what he did to the Rakatan scouting parties) force combat related feats for Darth Revan while Kun has many more. With that in mind I can't see how anyone can objectively say that Darth Revan wins when he is almost of an unknown as most of the ancient sith.

@ Exodus

Not yet but I hear stuff, so to quote Tucker from Red vs Blue when Christmas time comes its Bow Chicka Bow Wow! 😱

Elite you are really getting technical so we cannot have a match between Exar and Revan on the Star Forge. No one is confused. We really do not know the extent of what the draining process did. Meaning how deep or fatal a wound could be in order to be healed or not.

We do know it replenish Malak’s strength. Now if you want to excuse this for Darth Revan since we only known that Malak revealed this to Revan after he lost his memories then so be it.

I will make a thread between Revan and Exar on Malachor V.

I say Revan wins this..

1)More powerful in the Force. Has many forcce powers while Exar is only known for amulet blasts.
2)more skill w/ lightsaber supposedly but i don't think has gone up against someone who can change the blade's length tho..
3)Star Forge empowered.. gives Revan an Immense power boost. I'm not saying that Exar couldn't use the Star Forge to his advantage but he has no knowledge about it so I would assume that a Star forge empowered Revan should be able to harness the dark energy more effectively
4)More dark side knowledge
and idk wat else.. i'll come bak to this l8er..

oh forgot to note that exar has sith magic/alchemy too.. not sure wat this would do though

Originally posted by kotorfan
I say Revan wins this..

Did you read the whole thread? It has already been established that this thread can't be done accurately because there are way too many unknowns.

1)More powerful in the Force. Has many forcce powers while Exar is only known for amulet blasts. Oh forgot to note that exar has sith magic/alchemy too.. not sure wat this would do though

2)more skill w/ lightsaber supposedly but i don't think has gone up against someone who can change the blade's length tho..

3)Star Forge empowered.. gives Revan an Immense power boost. I'm not saying that Exar couldn't use the Star Forge to his advantage but he has no knowledge about it so I would assume that a Star forge empowered Revan should be able to harness the dark energy more effectivel

4)More dark side knowledge

@Kotor3

Originally posted by Kotor3
Elite you are really getting technical

No one is confused

Revan after defeating Malak could have easily done the same. So I no longer feel that this fight is an unknown. Before someone repeats that any dark user can drain someone .

It is very clear that you are talking about the postkotor Revan here as you refer to him after he beats Malak and you are using the "monkey see monkey do," argument as reason that Darth Revan do what Malak did which as I said Darth Revan wouldn't have the memories yet so what ever Revan did after he killed Malak doesn't matter.

Now if you want to excuse this for Darth Revan since we only known that Malak revealed this to Revan after he lost his memories then so be it.

It is a very logical thing to do when A) Revan hasn't canonically shown us the ability to use force drain(though I'd speculate he does but we have no evidence that he does_ B) There is no proof he knew the secret and Malak's comments back that up.

We really do not know the extent of what the draining process did. Meaning how deep or fatal a wound could be in order to be healed or not.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
Did you read the whole thread? It has already been established that this thread can't be done accurately because there are way too many unknowns.

Not exactly true, while its been established that Darth Revan has broader knowledge(some people here have argued that it was mostly rituals and not helpful in combat but that's beside the point) than Kun, Darth Revan hasn't shown anywhere near the amount force powers Kun has. Kun has frozen the galactic senate, killed an ancient jedi master by lifting his hand, force choked about 12 of Luke's apprentices as a 4000 year old spirit,stated to be a master of force lighting, and he somehow disconnected Luke spirit from body.

That is definitely fanboy statement right there "more skill w/ lightsaber supposedly," we know nothing about his style other than the fact that he was the best of his time and Kun was too. We what we do know that Kun is the only known person with his type of DBL and has an unfamiliar form.

You have no way of quantifying the boost. As has been stated numerous times there is zero evidence that Revan knew the secrets of the star forge (malak also claims the same thing) and thus he would only receive a dark which Kun will too because he is also a darksider.

As I said many people on KMC have argued that most of the knowledge Revan had was rituals but the facts are most of the knowledge he attained can't be evaluated. Just because he has more knowledge doesn't mean he would win. Look at Count Dooku, he had more knowledge then Anakin but he still ended up decapitated.

@Kotor3

By KMC standards not really.

Did you read your post? Well I post it anyway.

It is very clear that you are talking about the postkotor Revan here as you refer to him after he beats Malak and you are using the "monkey see monkey do," argument as reason that Darth Revan do what Malak did which as I said Darth Revan wouldn't have the memories yet so what ever Revan did after he killed Malak doesn't matter.

It is a very logical thing to do when A) Revan hasn't canonically shown us the ability to use force drain(though I'd speculate he does but we have no evidence that he does_ B) There is no proof he knew the secret and Malak's comments back that up.

According to Malak himself it transfers the jedi's power/dark taint to him there is nothing to suggest he was wounded and needed healing other then the fact that gameplay dictates that you have to take lower his health bar and as we all know gameplay isn't canon.

Elite: It is a very logical thing to do when A) Revan hasn't canonically shown us the ability to use force drain(though I'd speculate he does but we have no evidence that he does_ B) There is no proof he knew the secret and Malak's comments back that up.

This is off subject but for you to say that Malak knew dark side techniques that Darth Revan did not is ridiculous.

Since the story of Kotor started at a certain time in Revan’s life we did not see him use any dark techniques through out the game. Since you use Wookieepedia as a resource before it is quite logical that Revan did know the technique.

One: Malak could have killed him with it.
Two: Malak was once Revan’s apprentice
Three: This is from Wookieepedia - A sizable part of the Sith triumvirate, under Darth Traya, Darth Sion and Nihilus himself, was made to have some measure of proficiency in Force Drain. Specifically, a sect of Sith Assassins, once of Revan's elite Jedi hunter squads, were subject to what Kreia referred to as "special teachings." They came to use the technique to track Jedi more efficiently, and to grow stronger the closer they came to Force-sensitives, so that the stronger one was in the Force the more assassins would feel their presence, and the deadlier they would be in combat.

So logically it is clear Revan knew the technique.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Elite: It is a very logical thing to do when A) Revan hasn't canonically shown us the ability to use force drain(though I'd speculate he does but we have no evidence that he does_ B) There is no proof he knew the secret and Malak's comments back that up.

This is off subject but for you to say that Malak knew dark side techniques that Darth Revan did not is ridiculous.

Since the story of Kotor started at a certain time in Revan’s life we did not see him use any dark techniques through out the game. Since you use Wookieepedia as a resource before it is quite logical that Revan did know the technique.

One: Malak could have killed him with it.
Two: Malak was once Revan’s apprentice
Three: This is from Wookieepedia - A sizable part of the Sith triumvirate, under Darth Traya, Darth Sion and Nihilus himself, was made to have some measure of proficiency in Force Drain. Specifically, a sect of Sith Assassins, once of Revan's elite Jedi hunter squads, were subject to what Kreia referred to as "special teachings." They came to use the technique to track Jedi more efficiently, and to grow stronger the closer they came to Force-sensitives, so that the stronger one was in the Force the more assassins would feel their presence, and the deadlier they would be in combat.

So logically it is clear Revan knew the technique.

WTF you going on about? I clearly said that I personally think he knows it but I also stated the facts, there is no canonical evidence of him using it or mention that he knows it.That is certainly a valid point to bring up when dealing with videgame characters and what powers they do and don't know as gameplay isn't canon.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Since you use Wookieepedia as a resource before it is quite logical that Revan did know the technique.

Sorry for the double post but where the hell in this thread did I use wookieepedia as a resource? I got all my points from other sources for this debate and I hardly ever use wookieepedia and I never use it as primary source like you did in this thread.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
Sorry for the double post but where the hell in this thread did I use wookieepedia as a resource? I got all my points from other sources for this debate and I hardly ever use wookieepedia and I never use it as primary source like you did in this thread.

Sorry wrong thread you use it on the Star Forge empowered Malak thread.

Here is your quote:
According to wookieepedia it took about 200 years after the star forge was built for the infinite empire to crumble after a civil war and plague(which takes longer than a day which this duel wont even take half that time).

So you do use it sometimes.

Sometimes=hardly ever.

Lol he still got you on that one Elite.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
WTF you going on about? I clearly said that I personally think he knows it but I also stated the facts, there is no canonical evidence of him using it or mention that he knows it.That is certainly a valid point to bring up when dealing with videgame characters and what powers they do and don't know as gameplay isn't canon.

That is why game play was not mention by me as a source. However, Elite if you are saying it is not logical to think that Revan who access dark techniques on Malachor V and other places before any of the people who did use it such as Keria and Malak did not know the technique that does not make sense.

The technique was not new, it was learn and then taught. Revan mostly taught it to Malak who was his apprentice.

Really because we do not see him using it but his student does means he does not know it. We do not read of Malak learning any new techniques while Revan was gaining his memory back.

Originally posted by Tangible God
Lol he still got you on that one Elite.

🙄

I would have got it from the game but I can't find my powercord for my xbox, for some reason neither kotor game can run any fights smoothly on my 360.

In my(weak) defense I would say there is a difference from using wookieepedia to get dates vs getting combat relative information and stuff of that sort. 😠

But hey I'll give him that one since I got him on everything else 😛

Originally posted by Kotor3
That is why game play was not mention by me as a source. However, Elite if you are saying it is not logical to think that Revan who access dark techniques on Malachor V and other places before any of the people who did use it such as Keria and Malak did not know the technique that does not make sense.

The technique was not new, it was learn and then taught. Revan mostly taught it to Malak who was his apprentice.

Really because we do not see him using it but his student does means he does not know it. We do not read of Malak learning any new techniques while Revan was gaining his memory back.

Again I think Revan does know it, but the facts are we have no definitive way to prove it as there is canonical evidence of him using or stating he knew it and people on kmc will use that against in a debates.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
Again I think Revan does know it, but the facts are we have no definitive way to prove it as there is canonical evidence of him using or stating he knew it and people on kmc will use that against in a debates.

That is fine. It is not KMC, it is people in general who when it is in there favor do not take a logical deduction but state that need paper or statements to prove something.

Until someone gives me a reason as why logically he would not know the technique I am going to use it in my arguements.

Originally posted by Kotor3
That is fine. It is not KMC, it is people in general who when it is in there favor do not take a logical deduction but state that need paper or statements to prove something.

Until someone gives me a reason as why logically he would not know the technique I am going to use it in my arguements.

I understand where your coming from especially with this particular issue because it is very logical to assume he knows it but it is just the way we debate on here, you should read some of the more intense debates to know how much "proof"/evidence is needed/treated on kmc.