Star Forge empowered Revan vs Exar Kun

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
I understand where your coming from especially with this particular issue because it is very logical to assume he knows it but it is just the way we debate on here, you should read some of the more intense debates to know how much "proof"/evidence is needed/treated on kmc.

Believe me I have. That is why I sign in because it was entertaining. One thing people do not see is that in these versus it is all speculation mixed with facts. Some people try to say it is fact that a win will happen just because some one is stated to be more powerful.

I will be around.

Speculation? A little, but these debates are hypothetical meaning we conclude who wins and a fight between revan and kun would mean that it is very hard to conclude who wins seeing both has their strengths and weaknesses

We don't know how these two measure up to one another, that's the tough part.

Originally posted by Tangible God
We don't know how these two measure up to one another, that's the tough part.

I read post from all of you and other people for months maybe even a year or more before signing up. I am very much aware of how many of you view certain people in the Star Wars Universe.

I understand your style of argument Tanqible you must know everything before coming to a conclusion. That is fine. I do not understand why you keep posting on threads with Revan and trying to influence us into the same style of argument.

Is there statistics on Kun, such as a list of all the techniques that Kun knows in the force, his exact power level, all his combat history, etc? If so please show.

How does Kun measure up to Bane in force power? Can you answer that? All we know is that they both were powerful in the force. But what exactly were there levels?

I am ready to be educated Tanqible.

^
the problem is that Bane and Kun both have specific feats attributed to them (the thought bomb and amulet blast/ mind control of the senate respectively) that can be compared. Revan does not have specific feats known because a lot of his (her?) accomplishments are shrouded in gameplay. Revan is really too big of an unknown to debate effectively.

Originally posted by Jbill311
^
the problem is that Bane and Kun both have specific feats attributed to them (the thought bomb and amulet blast/ mind control of the senate respectively) that can be compared. Revan does not have specific feats known because a lot of his (her?) accomplishments are shrouded in [b]gameplay. Revan is really too big of an unknown to debate effectively. [/B]

Your response says it all. I understand exactly what you are saying. Now let us use feats in our arguments.

Here is one you can help answer. Kun froze an entire senate except for Vodo. Would that work or Revan who is undoubtedly more powerful?

For the record Revan is canonically Male. You should know that.

You're right I should know that. I get the Exile and Revan mixed up. I have played both games enough that I know the responses to both genders, as I have the dialogue nearly memorized (what will be said next- not memorized enough to give a recitation.)

I don't believe that it would freeze Revan, as Kun didn't freeze his opponent in that confrontation. This may have been Sith alchemy, which would change the impressiveness of this feat. To be honest, I don't know much about Kun, but Wookiepedia and the other posters on here will correct me if i'm wrong (i hope). The example of the senate might best be used to illustrate the massive power at Kun's disposal. I don't think that Sith alchemy would help Kun in a duel, and Revan's versatility would certainly help. Kun's amulet, and sheer force potential certainly makes this a balanced fight.

My gut says Revan wins, but I just can't find enough evidence either way.

Originally posted by Jbill311
You're right I should know that. I get the Exile and Revan mixed up. I have played both games enough that I know the responses to both genders, as I have the dialogue nearly memorized (what will be said next- not memorized enough to give a recitation.)

I don't believe that it would freeze Revan, as Kun didn't freeze his opponent in that confrontation. This may have been Sith alchemy, which would change the impressiveness of this feat. To be honest, I don't know much about Kun, but Wookiepedia and the other posters on here will correct me if i'm wrong (i hope). The example of the senate might best be used to illustrate the massive power at Kun's disposal. I don't think that Sith alchemy would help Kun in a duel, and Revan's versatility would certainly help. Kun's amulet, and sheer force potential certainly makes this a balanced fight.

My gut says Revan wins, but I just can't find enough evidence either way.

Thank you there is nothing wrong with your statement. Nothing is clear cut in a vs thread unless you put some one like Sidious against Bastilla. That is why it is entertaining to build arguments based upon what we know under certain circumstances to see if the opponent of your choice will win. Otherwise this forum would be very boring.

Back to the fight, actually since Elite has already killed the possibility for Darth Revan being empowered by the Star Forge, I can only go with the fact that Revan since he knows the layout of the Star Forge would use his surrounding to his advantage.

Revan mostly likely would lose in a saber fight and be put on the defense due to Kun’s amulet. I also do not think Revan knows that many more dark techniques than Kun, if he even does that he could use in personal combat against Kun that he is unaware of.

After further consideration, Darth Revan may not be able to defeat Kun.

Originally posted by Jbill311
^
the problem is that Bane and Kun both have specific feats attributed to them (the thought bomb and amulet blast/ mind control of the senate respectively) that can be compared. Revan does not have specific feats known because a lot of his (her?) accomplishments are shrouded in [b]gameplay. Revan is really too big of an unknown to debate effectively. [/B]

I'd say simple logical deductions are enough to put Revan on the level of Kun in terms of the force and force power:

- Kreia saying it was as if looking into the heart of the force

- Jolee literally seeing the force swirl around him

- Ajunta Pal said Revans power was "blinding" to him, and that he bristled with the force.

- He being called a prodigy by Vandar at the end of KOTOR, and a prodigy as a knight before the mind wipe

- Having the most complete knowledge of the Dark Side of the force that is second only too Palpatine that we know of

- Had the most advanced, highly developed form of Battle Precognition that allowed him to see the outcome of battles months into the future. (Anther thing that puts him above Darth Cadick whose only precognition failed him and lured him into the clutches of Lumiya)

- Having his name be synonymous with power

- Bastila was literally feeling overwhelmed by the sheer magnitude of his power

- His force mastery that surpasses Caedus whom himself surpassed Vader in terms of force power, who is you know 80% of Darth f*cking Sidious

- Him ripping through the Star Forges defense that were called a match for any Jedi, then beating Bastilla multiple times while she was being constantly revived and amped up by the Star Forge, THEN proceeding to beat Malak at least 2 times in a row while he was empowered by the Star Forge and revived by the life force of dead Jedi.

- Surviving and not being broken by the Dark Side power of Malachor (a PLANET full of raw Dark Side energy, which Kreia was broken by)

- His force bonding ability that he used en mass on his followers according to Kreia

- During his start as Dark Lord the chronicles say his dark power was "tremendous" and only continued to grow, then in KOTOR he's stated as being stronger then he EVER was as the Dark Lord.

- Revan using force storms to slaughter Rataka scouting parties on Lehon

- He slaughters the Sith Academy by himself (showed in KOTOR1, confirmed by Kreia in KOTOR 2)

- His holocron alone was enough in itself to turn Bane from a neophyte to a very dangerous, very powerful Dark Lord

- Sion, the mans whos pull on the force is so strong it holds his dead body together through sheer hate, admits to being his inferiority to Revan, he even goes as far as to give him the honorific "Lord" when he speaks of him, something he DOESN'T do for his current master or any of his peers

Revan is a beast with the force, as is Kun, which leads me to believe it would come down to a saber duel, and while Kun is stated to be a Lightsaber Master, that title remains unquantified, we know his skill is enough to stalemate Ulic, and crush Vodo but thats about it. As for Revan he's the best of his era, but unlike Kun, Revan has FAR, FAR more combat experience then Exar, being as though he championed a war between pretty much the most deadly non-force using warriors in the galaxy, and defeating their leader in hand to hand combat also notes of his physical and combat skills. He then follows a war with Mandalorians by a war with the Jedi, and we know he massacred the Sith Academy by himself as well as tore through the Star Forge fighting droids able to kill Jedi Knights, Dark Jedi, beat Bastila being amped by the SF 4 times and Malak being amped by Jedi Life-force at least twice, all this with no rest as there was a fleet battle going on outside that Bastila was affecting so he had to get to her with haste. Its apparent that he has the combat experience on Kun off the bat.

Now his apperent skill with the blade, coupled with his awesome command of the force and his combat experience (ie: he wouldn't start shitting his pants when Kun busts out the other half of his saber like Vodo did) would in my mind be enough to stalemate Exar Kun, however, Revan is *known* for his Battle Precognition and its this that I believe will take the fight for Revan, as Brianna and the Exile showed that although a force user gets natural hints of where to attack and defend with the force, a force user with a talent in BP as the Exile does is an especially dangerous foe to combat with. And if were to believe that he posses the BP to the extent that KOTOR 2 alludes to ( it surpasses even that of the Greatest Echani who can predict battles months in the future) then his:

-Skill
-Force Power
-Combat Experience
-Battle Precognition
-His knowledge of the layout of the Star Forge

These factors will allow him to defeat Kun.

Originally posted by ~A.C.S~
I'd say simple logical deductions are enough to put Revan on the level of Kun in terms of the force and force power:

Revan is a beast with the force, as is Kun, which leads me to believe it would come down to a saber duel, and while Kun is stated to be a Lightsaber Master, that title remains unquantified, we know his skill is enough to stalemate Ulic, and crush Vodo but thats about it. As for Revan he's the best of his era, but unlike Kun, Revan has FAR, FAR more combat experience then Exar, being as though he championed a war between pretty much the most deadly non-force using warriors in the galaxy, and defeating their leader in hand to hand combat also notes of his physical and combat skills. He then follows a war with Mandalorians by a war with the Jedi, and we know he massacred the Sith Academy by himself as well as tore through the Star Forge fighting droids able to kill Jedi Knights, Dark Jedi, beat Bastila being amped by the SF 4 times and Malak being amped by Jedi Life-force at least twice, all this with no rest as there was a fleet battle going on outside that Bastila was affecting so he had to get to her with haste. Its apparent that he has the combat experience on Kun off the bat.

Now his apperent skill with the blade, coupled with his awesome command of the force and his combat experience (ie: he wouldn't start shitting his pants when Kun busts out the other half of his saber like Vodo did) would in my mind be enough to stalemate Exar Kun, however, Revan is *known* for his Battle Precognition and its this that I believe will take the fight for Revan, as Brianna and the Exile showed that although a force user gets natural hints of where to attack and defend with the force, a force user with a talent in BP as the Exile does is an especially dangerous foe to combat with. And if were to believe that he posses the BP to the extent that KOTOR 2 alludes to ( it surpasses even that of the Greatest Echani who can predict battles months in the future) then his:

-Skill
-Force Power
-Combat Experience
-Battle Precognition
-His knowledge of the layout of the Star Forge

These factors will allow him to defeat Kun.

Wow very good logical deductions. I like it very much. I know people are going to try to eat your argument. I would like to see what Elite has to say to your statments. You definitely brought up points I did not.

O.K. I'll bite.

Originally posted by ~A.C.S~
[B]I'd say simple logical deductions are enough to put Revan on the level of Kun in terms of the force and force power:
- Kreia saying it was as if looking into the heart of the force [/quote}

Kreia is a lying B****. She says what she needs to to get stuff done.
[QUOTE=10929380]Originally posted by ~A.C.S~ - Jolee literally seeing the force swirl around him

Originally posted by ~A.C.S~
- Ajunta Pal said Revans power was "blinding" to him, and that he bristled with the force.

Originally posted by ~A.C.S~
- He being called a prodigy by Vandar at the end of KOTOR, and a prodigy as a knight before the mind wipe

Originally posted by ~A.C.S~
- Having the most complete knowledge of the Dark Side of the force that is second only too Palpatine that we know of

- Had the most advanced, highly developed form of Battle Precognition that allowed him to see the outcome of battles months into the future. (Anther thing that puts him above Darth Cadick whose only precognition failed him and lured him into the clutches of Lumiya)

Originally posted by ~A.C.S~
- Having his name be synonymous with power

Originally posted by ~A.C.S~
- Bastila was literally feeling overwhelmed by the sheer magnitude of his power

Originally posted by ~A.C.S~
- His force mastery that surpasses Caedus whom himself surpassed Vader in terms of force power, who is you know 80% of Darth f*cking Sidious

Originally posted by ~A.C.S~
- Him ripping through the Star Forges defense that were called a match for any Jedi, then beating Bastilla multiple times while she was being constantly revived and amped up by the Star Forge, THEN proceeding to beat Malak at least 2 times in a row while he was empowered by the Star Forge and revived by the life force of dead Jedi.

Originally posted by ~A.C.S~
- Surviving and not being broken by the Dark Side power of Malachor (a PLANET full of raw Dark Side energy, which Kreia was broken by)

Originally posted by ~A.C.S~
- His force bonding ability that he used en mass on his followers according to Kreia

Originally posted by ~A.C.S~
- During his start as Dark Lord the chronicles say his dark power was "tremendous" and only continued to grow, then in KOTOR he's stated as being stronger then he EVER was as the Dark Lord.

Originally posted by ~A.C.S~
- Revan using force storms to slaughter Rataka scouting parties on Lehon

Originally posted by ~A.C.S~
- He slaughters the Sith Academy by himself (showed in KOTOR1, confirmed by Kreia in KOTOR 2)

- His holocron alone was enough in itself to turn Bane from a neophyte to a very dangerous, very powerful Dark Lord

- Sion, the mans whos pull on the force is so strong it holds his dead body together through sheer hate, admits to being his inferiority to Revan, he even goes as far as to give him the honorific "Lord" when he speaks of him, something he DOESN'T do for his current master or any of his peers

Revan has no notable Saber feats, and is still an unknown in combat with Force users. Your list did narrow the gap, and i'm still leaning toward giving the match to revan.

He calls it more of a breeze, and Jolee is by no means an expert.

Because he's a sarcastic old man whom has an obviously antagonistic relationship with Revan as they insult each other constantly. But it doesn't change the fact that he can see the force around him, that followed with the quote from Ajunta Pal leads me to think that my explanation is indeed correct and Revans power is indeed awesome and he's just being an ass.

The palps thing, I didn't know. thats cool. I don't know who Cadick is.

Cadick = Caedus.

My name is synonymous with Velveeta, and you don't hear me braggin. This just sounds like hyperbole.
As does this.

Both are more of the verbal fellatio that help establish Revan as an extremely powerful force user.

1. proof of superiority to Caedus would help.

See above.

2. Force power and Force knowledge are different things. I would be extremely hesitant to call Vader's knowledge among the greats. If there is a source to the contrary I will change my tune, however.

I think if Starkiller is any precedent then Vaders knowledge of the force is considerable. Considering he raised and taught such a tank of a force user.

2. Bastilla: her stamina was increased. A chopped off head or hand wouldn't be amped up, no matter what the gameplay did.

Which only adds to the impressiveness of the feat, as Revan was not trying to kill her as he's in love with her. And he still held off and defeated Bastila an enraged DS, being empowered by the SF whom was trying to kill him.

3. Malak: Again, watch out for gameplay. Malak wouldn't be regenerating "health" b/c that is a game mechanic. He would be 're-energized.'

Re-energized/Empowered by the SF. Still makes for a hell of a feat, not only that but the duel was described by the Chronicles as "epic" and "vicious" so it was by no means a walk in the park for Revan.

At that point he would have been a Dark Sider, and thus have been able to harness the DS energy, rather than be assaulted by it.

To that point Revan hadn't fell to the dark side yet, when he plunders to city-tombs of Malachor is when he falls according to the Chronicles:

"As Revan plundered these tombs and relics, he fell deeper into the Dark Side."

Again, beware of trusting Kreia.

It serves no point for her to lie/embellish at that point, not to mention its alluded to by HK-47, Mical and every Jedi Master you encounter

I'm gonna have to admit that I know little of Revan outside of nearly memorizing the KotOR games and less than nothing (outside of wookiepedia) of Kun. I'm gonna but out of where I don't belong. I'm just wary of anything that looks like fanboyism, and a few of the feats seemed kind of trivial.

Originally posted by Jbill311
I'm gonna have to admit that I know little of Revan outside of nearly memorizing the KotOR games and less than nothing (outside of wookiepedia) of Kun. I'm gonna but out of where I don't belong. I'm just wary of anything that looks like fanboyism, and a few of the feats seemed kind of trivial.

Given the fact that he quoted an old argument from AC Styles in his post,leaves me to doubt that he is a "new member," if I had to take a guess I'd say he is Nebaris since AC Styles is not banned and he could post on his account if it were really him instead of going to the trouble of making a new account also of note is the initials of the account.

After the initial posts I never expected so many to come afterwards. Who every he is he made very good points. It would seem that Elite you won the argument about Revan not being empowered by the Star Forge.

A.C.S has brought up some feats and descriptions of Revan that I forgot and even though I still stand that Kun may initially put Revan on the defense I believe Revan will win for the things mention above and the fact that I believe Kun's over confidents will be his down fall.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
Given the fact that he quoted an old argument from AC Styles in his post,leaves me to doubt that he is a "new member," if I had to take a guess I'd say he is Nebaris since AC Styles is not banned and he could post on his account if it were really him instead of going to the trouble of making a new account also of note is the initials of the account.

Plus Nebaris doesn't like Revan that much and (I think) actually does like Kun.

Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
I doubt he is nebaris because n00baris enjoys downplaying and disrespecting vader(funny because vader is merely sci fi character)while this guy is actually defending him.

I got to disagree.You don't think it is even a little fishythat his name A.C.S. is the initials of AC Styles and he even copied a quote from AC Styles argument from here: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=483989&pagenumber=3 Plus if it was Styles would he not post on his real account? I don't think him standing up for vader would mean much because the only thing that I see that remains constant with Nebaris is his love of Bane and Sion.

You know you can look at these forums without becoming a member. This guy could have just copied Styles, or their names refer to something else.