Intelligence & cunning competition between Thanos and Darkseid

Originally posted by Allankles
Which lame ideas? The complete domination of Earth's inhabitants for the purpose of bringing about the end of an age and usher forth the 5th world?

A new existence in which Darkseid is lord? Existence reshaped in Darkseid's image by corrupting the offspring of the foundation stone of existence.

If only Thanos' ultimate power stories were written with this kind of imagination, he'd be a cooler character. As I said much earlier in the thread, Thanos is like a kiddie version of DS.

The plot of the IG story mainly involved punching a few elders to take gems that supposedly hold ultimate power, but wait... it gets even easier; two thirds of these elders don't even know the powers and full abilities of these gems.

Thanos' character is just inconsistent and that's partly because he's never been built up in a proper deliberate way. He gains ultimate power for ultimate powers sake, but the plots are never made to be clever or interesting.

He arrives at his goal too cheaply, what price has he paid for the ultimate prize? What intrigues has he worked through?

Then he has a thing for death and helps Annhilus with his plans for the power cosmic but there's never a definitive reason why he does this.

His claim to fame is the IG but he doesn't feel worthy of ruling the universe, so all we're left with is his school boy crush for lady Death, and what interesting plot can you make with that?

This is all opinion based but legion is much more exciting and has cooler characters involved in legion of worlds.

Originally posted by quanchi112

Dominating earth is no big deal imo. He is doing it secretly as well which is boring to me. Thanos has become so mpowerful before he could have enslaved earth with but a thought. That would have been boring imo.

Your opinion on Thanos is noted,but meh. You seem like like Darkseid who is an utter bore. Thanos has since moved on from acquiring powerups. Maybe when darkseid achieves his goals he will move on as well.

Dominating Earth is a big deal since it is the fulcrum of Marvel and DC's respective universes. So it is a big deal, for obvious reasons. And in the plot Earth is the foundation stone of all existence so it is certainly a prize worth having.

Thanos acquires power ups (in the form of trinkets). Darkseid isn't about acquiring power ups, he could care less about power ups (the ALE is not even a power up it's knowledge).

Darkseid cares about ordering all existence, he wants to escape his assigned fate and create a universe that is ordered (from his point of view of order).

Thanos is the one who gained power for powers sake. Darkseid is trying to escape fate and trying to remake existence into what he feels it should have been from the start.

He first escaped the fate the Source had in store for him and constantly fights against it (which is why he is considered the flaw in the Source). All Darkseid wants is to become trully the master of his own fate and he beleives he is doing the universe a favor by reordering it in his "perfect" image.

Originally posted by Allankles
Dominating Earth is a big deal since it is the fulcrum of Marvel and DC's respective universes. So it is a big deal, for obvious reasons. And in the plot Earth is the foundation stone of all existence so it is certainly a prize worth having.

Thanos acquires power ups (in the form of trinkets). Darkseid isn't about acquiring power ups, he could care less about power ups (the ALE is not even a power up it's knowledge).

Darkseid cares about ordering all existence, he wants to escape his assigned fate and create a universe that is ordered (from his point of view of order).

Thanos is the one who gained power for powers sake. Darkseid is trying to escape fate and trying to remake existence into what he feels it should have been from the start.

He first escaped the fate the Source had in store for him and constantly fights against it (which is why he is considered the flaw in the Source). All Darkseid wants is to become trully the master of his own fate and he beleives he is doing the universe a favor by reordering it in his "perfect" image.

The ale is a powerup in the form of knowledge. It doesnt matter whether its a trinket or not. The heart wasnt a trinket by the way its still a powerup.

Darkseid is a creature of order. I agree,but he has failed miserably so far and hasnt even come close to this goal. Granted, I know they all fail in the end but at least Thanos achieves his goals.

Originally posted by quanchi112

Darkseid is a creature of order. I agree,but he has failed miserably so far and hasnt even come close to this goal.

Originally posted by fangirl101
[b]FINALCRISIS [/B]

Originally posted by quanchi112
What has he done? He and his goons are pulling the strings and doing so in secrecy. Not that impressive

Are we still on topic? Because now you just seem to be talking in the lines of "who is better Thanos and Darkseid", which is bound to degenerate into nonesense if it hasn't already.

Not to bash the princess or anything but has Darkseid ever won like Thanos has? or even Doom

Originally posted by TheBadguy
Not to bash the princess or anything but has Darkseid ever won like Thanos has? or even Doom

Does Thanos have an opposite that is his equal and created just to keep him in check?

And DS wins the final crisis. As in evil wins.

Originally posted by TheBadguy
Not to bash the princess or anything but has Darkseid ever won like Thanos has? or even Doom

What do you mean won? To gain ultimately power and be foiled in the end? Yes, like every major villain. The issue isn't about claiming power it's about writing an actually half decent story around that this quest.

That's where intelligence and cunning is demonstrated. If the plot is so weak that the depth of the characters plan involves fighting people one-on-one it plays like a weak pro wrestling script.

You read a good book every now and again but you also want to see a decent attempt at story depth in your comics too.

Originally posted by fangirl101
To the slow witted it probably isn't. Big action, silly easy power ups, and str8 forward story telling with no mystery, foreshadowing, or plot build ups are for the average.

Originally posted by TheBadguy
Not to bash the princess or anything but has Darkseid ever won like Thanos has? or even Doom

Originally posted by Allankles
What do you mean won? To gain ultimately power and be foiled in the end? Yes, like every major villain. The issue isn't about claiming power it's about writing an actually half decent story around that this quest.

That's where intelligence and cunning is demonstrated. If the plot is so weak that the depth of the characters plan involves fighting people one-on-one it plays like a weak pro wrestling script.

You read a good book every now and again but you also want to see a decent attempt at story depth in your comics too.

Like every villain? Its rare for a villain to truly win, it happens even less on a scale for people with ambitions like Thanos/Doom/Darkseid. I agree thats the main issue for the writers but this is a verses forum. I'm just saying I can't remember Darkseid ever winning like Doom has let alone Thanos.

Originally posted by TheBadguy
Like every villain? Its rare for a villain to truly win, it happens even less on a scale for people with ambitions like Thanos/Doom/Darkseid. I agree thats the main issue for the writers but this is a verses forum. I'm just saying I can't remember Darkseid ever winning like Doom has let alone Thanos.

Winning has nothing to do with intelligence or cunning. If I win by sucker punching you in the face I'm not really applying grey matter to the equation.

The IG is a perfect example of a guy having it so easy he doesn't need to use much of his grey matter.

Just go from planet to planet beating up on some people that call themselves elders but who somehow don't know the power they wield or its nature, like the In betweener or the gardener or that dumb brute Champion.

By the time he faces Runner and Grand master he has so much power a child would find it impossible to lose.

Not my fault that the authors don't give us any real intelligence and cunning feats for this guy.

Originally posted by Allankles
Winning has nothing to do with intelligence or cunning. If I win by sucker punching you in the face I'm not really applying grey matter to the equation.

The IG is a perfect example of a guy having it so easy he doesn't need to use much of his grey matter.

Just go from planet to planet beating up on some people that call themselves elders but who somehow don't know the power they wield or its nature, like the In betweener or the gardener or that dumb brute Champion.

By the time he faces Runner and Grand master he has so much power a child would find it impossible to lose.

Not my fault that the authors don't give us any real intelligence and cunning feats for this guy.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thanos wins while darkseid doesnt. Not my fault Ds always loses and his plans come apart no matter how intricate they were.

You're talking like Thanos' plans haven't been foiled either by his own self depreciation or by Marvel heroes like Mar-vell, Warlock etc. And intelligence and cunning have everything to do with intricacy.

Basically the situations demand different degrees of intelligence. Simple situations like the IG quest require very little intelligence to execute given that the only barrier between Thanos and ultimate power was a bunch of clueless types with gems they had no idea about.

The In betweener didn't even understand the nature of his own body and abilities in relation to the dimesnion he was in and he's supposed to be some big deal? Talk about downplaying the oppositon.

Originally posted by Allankles
You're talking like Thanos' plans haven't been foiled either by his own self depreciation or by Marvel heroes like Mar-vell, Warlock etc. And intelligence and cunning have everything to do with intricacy.

Basically the situations demand different degrees of intelligence. Simple situations like the IG quest require very little intelligence to execute given that the only barrier between Thanos and ultimate power was a bunch of clueless types with gems they had no idea about.

The In betweener didn't even understand the nature of his own body and abilities in relation to the dimesnion he was in and he's supposed to be some big deal? Talk about downplaying the oppositon.

Warlock was already killed and then his ghost came back. No shame there. Have you seen the forces allied against Thanos. Order,Chaos,Chronos,etc.

Thanos pwning the elders required intelligence. Grandmaster showed off his intelligence in jla/avengers. He seemed to be an equal of Metron. Thanos amd ehim look stupid. Its what he does.

Ib was one person he defeated. Why do you always just name one feat when he defeated many more in that very arc.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thanos subconsciously let himself lose a few times.

Warlock was already killed and then his ghost came back. No shame there. Have you seen the forces allied against Thanos. Order,Chaos,Chronos,etc.

Thanos pwning the elders required intelligence. Grandmaster showed off his intelligence in jla/avengers. He seemed to be an equal of Metron. Thanos amd ehim look stupid. Its what he does.

Ib was one person he defeated. Why do you always just name one feat when he defeated many more in that very arc.

I'm talking about the IG quest in general 5 of 6 of the elders were clueless. Thanos hardly showed any intelligence in taking them, just used the gems according to how they were supposed to be used.

He took In betweener because the moron didn't even know the nature of his powers (leave alone the gem). He took Champion because Champion was written as a retard, a muscle bound retard.

I can't believe the author got away with writing characters that stupid.

The only guy who showed any measure of intelligence was Grand Master, but by the time Thanos faced him he had all but one of the gems (since he'd easily taken them from the other elders).

Darkseid would represent the single most insidious, calculating and down right intelligent foe Thanos would ever have faced based on his appearances. You name any foe Thanos has fought nd none of them match Darkseid for subtetly, cunning or intelligence.

And as far as the forces arrayed against Thanos are concerned those forces only appear after he's easily discovered ultimate power they are not his constant opponents.

Originally posted by Allankles
I'm talking about the IG quest in general 5 of 6 of the elders were clueless. Thanos hardly showed any intelligence in taking them, just used the gems according to how they were supposed to be used.

He took In betweener because the moron didn't even know the nature of his powers (leave alone the gem). He took Champion because Champion was written as a retard, a muscle bound retard.

I can't believe the author got away with writing characters that stupid.

The only guy who showed any measure of intelligence was Grand Master, but by the time Thanos faced him he had all but one of the gems (since he'd easily taken them from the other elders).

Darkseid would represent the single most insidious, calculating and down right intelligent foe Thanos would ever have faced based on his appearances. You name any foe Thanos has fought nd none of them match Darkseid for subtetly, cunning or intelligence.

And as far as the forces arrayed against Thanos are concerned those forces only appear after he's easily discovered ultimate power they are not his constant opponents.

Thanos' knowledge is greater than a being like the IB. Thats awesome. Champion has been an idiot but Thanos beat him with his mind. Not the greatest feat out there but impressive nonetheless.

Grandmaster eliminated the advantages the other gems gave him by the simulation he wanted to to engage Thanos in. If you read it you would know that. He cheated but Thanos had played him for a fool regardless of the situation. He is that good.

No,Darkseid wouldnt. He seems to be to be a bit of adesperate I need Mary Marvel to my cause because my plans have all bgone up in smoke. Then he lost his amp and the heroes actually were held off and was defeated by just Orion in fair combat.

Do I have to bring up the time Darkseid was lured into a barn and defeated by Superman? He just got punked on his planet by Batman also in that story.
Thanos is well above Darkseid in terms of intelligence.

New FC came out and it's revealed DS is on his way to spreading the anti-life across the universe, and by Flash's words "Darkseid's falling, dragging this whole universe down as he goes. The entire structure. The whole multi-verse, Wally!"..."Like I said--entire Multiverse avalanching into oblivion"

and most interesting:
Black Adam: "The primal ones who lend us their powers have been overthrown by these New Gods of Apokolips. We're at our weakest"

So DS plan is far more then just taking over the Earth, just a little tidbit

Originally posted by -K-M-
New FC came out and it's revealed DS is on his way to spreading the anti-life across the universe, and by Flash's words "Darkseid's falling, dragging this whole universe down as he goes. The entire structure. The whole multi-verse, Wally!"..."Like I said--entire Multiverse avalanching into oblivion"

and most interesting:
Black Adam: "The primal ones who lend us their powers have been overthrown by these New Gods of Apokolips. We're at our weakest"

So DS plan is far more then just taking over the Earth, just a little tidbit