Originally posted by Icy Ninja
Please do or show me the thread
Aye, aye. I posted this in the Caedus vs. Mace thread:
Originally posted by Enyalus
As for the Nihilus thing...erm, follow my logic here and please correct where you see fit - it's been ages since I've played KOTOR 2 (I did recently reread Unseen, Unheard though.)So, in order for Vaapad to do anything special...superconducting loop and whatnot, you have to be [b]in
the Force at the time, because Vaapad utilizes the Force and the dark side. I'd think that if you disconnected yourself from it, it'd just be an offshoot style of Form VII and nothing very special.If that's granted, that's very important because Mace would most likely need to disconnect from the Force in order to fight Darth Nihilus. Nihilus can sense ALL force users in the galaxy for one. Not to mention that it's widely acknowledged that Mace's strongest department is not in the Force, it's with the blade. Nihilus would thus either end up feeding/severing/draining him, or Force Crush et cetera him easily.
That being said, the only option Mace would have is to disconnect from the Force and engage him in saber combat. We have no conclusive proof from the game, but Wookeepedia's article said Nihilus was an exceptional duelist (just hardly needed to use it). And if you think about it, nearly every single Jedi/Sith powerful in the Force was also a good duelist, so that makes sense.
Without Vaapad's bonuses, Mace would have an unfamiliar style and a fairly fast and athletic attack sequence....against someone who is also a skilled duelist, and has precog abilities. Would Mace even have his shatterpoint ability if he looped out of the Force?
Anyway, that's my reasoning for thinking Mace would go down against Nihilus. I think the only beings who would be able to beat him are NJO Luke, DE Sidious, AOTC Yoda (possibly), or another wound in the force, such as the Jedi Exile.
What do you think? That's my messed up, backwards reasoning, lol. [/B]
How exactly would Nihilus win a saber battle when your not allowed to use offensive force powers? So Mace would not need to disconnect from the force (even if he could) because Nihilus can't drain/sever(as you seem to imply above)him from the force in a strict up saber so no Nihilus doesn't beat Mace in saber combat.
Why exactly would mace need to "disconnect" himself from the force in a saber duel?(when the actual technique is masking your force sensitivity, not disconnecting yourself at all and when your sensitivity is masked, you are invisible to nihilus and he can't do jack to touch your force sensitivity or break it with his technique ).
Again wookie claiming nihilus being exceptional in saber dueling means absolute jack seeing that there is nothing to substantiate that.
As far as a saber duel goes, mace >>>> nihilus.
Originally posted by Elite Hunter
How exactly would Nihilus win a saber battle when your not allowed to use offensive force powers? So Mace would not need to disconnect from the force (even if he could) because Nihilus can't drain/sever(as you seem to imply above)him from the force in a strict up saber so no Nihilus doesn't beat Mace in saber combat.
Ah, right. Yeah, you're absolutely right. My oversight. Sorry about that. In that case, yes, I'll agree that Mace beats him in sabers.
Force and All-Out, my opinion still stands.
Originally posted by EnyalusAnd just how is he going to shatter a force bond of a powerful user?
Ah, right. Yeah, you're absolutely right. My oversight. Sorry about that. In that case, yes, I'll agree that Mace beats him in sabers.Force and All-Out, my opinion still stands.
It took 3 jedi masters to attempt to merely disable the exiles force sensitivity yet that took so long, what makes you think that nihilus can destroy mace windus force bond, a powerful force user that quickly?
How is nihilus even going to break his connections if he can't sense mace's sensitivity or presence in the force?(Assuming he masked his force sensitivity).
Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
And just how is he going to shatter a force bond of a powerful user?
With a wave of his hand would be the easiest way, as Faunus pointed out.
It took 3 jedi masters to attempt to merely disable the exiles force sensitivity yet that took so long, what makes you think that nihilus can destroy mace windus force bond, a powerful force user that quickly?
Since when was the technique the Jedi masters "attempted" to use on the Exile the same as Nihilus' devastating dark side ability? If I recall, Traya mentions its uniqueness to Nihilus alone; quit tossing invalid evidence around like it means anything.
How is nihilus even going to break his connections if he can't sense mace's sensitivity or presence in the force?(Assuming he masked his force sensitivity).
Oh, please. I'll be equally ridiculous: how is Mace even going to hid his Force sensitivity when he knows exactly squat about about Nihilus?
And he's demonstrated vast telekinetic abilities in any case. Which pretty much carry over to a lot of powers (Force choke, push, etc.). I don't see how Mace has done anything that would elevate him to the level of someone like Nihilus.
I'm not here to argue but just let me try to elaborate on what i claimed earlier because you got the wrong idea of what i was trying to imply.
I'm not trying to be a smartass or anything but just give me a chance to explain..
Originally posted by AdventSince when was the technique the Jedi masters "attempted" to use on the Exile the same as Nihilus' devastating dark side ability? If I recall, Traya mentions its uniqueness to Nihilus alone; quit tossing invalid evidence around like it means anything.
You yourself(quite a while ago) told me that those 3 masters only blinded the exile to the force(as nomi blinded ulic's connection) and was not the same technique as nihilus did on his victims.
Originally posted by AdventJust like how you assumed luke is going to do the same thing(in a luke vs nihilus thread a couple of years back) without substantiating on how luke knows nihilus.Oh, please. I'll be equally ridiculous: how is Mace even going to hid his Force sensitivity when he knows [b]exactly squat
about about Nihilus?[/B]
I'd like to ask a question, how do you know that nihilus really cut traya's force bond off when she stated(and when you brought it up in a thread i can't find anymore) that all life can't exist without the force and that she still remained alive and still could barely reach out with the force to attempt to grab her saber(it shook when she attempted to).
If her connection was really cut
1) Why isn't she dead
2) If it was a similar techniue to just disable her connection, why could she still reach out with the force to attempt to grab her lightsaber?.
Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
I'm not here to argue but just let me try to elaborate on what i claimed earlier because you got the wrong idea of what i was trying to imply.I'm not trying to be a smartass or anything but just give me a chance to explain..
Sure.
I never said it was because i used the word "merely disabled"(meaning disable the exile from using the force), not completely breaking her force connection/bond like nihilus does on others.
Why mention it then? It has absolutely no relevance to the discussion at hand.
You yourself(quite a while ago) told me that those 3 masters only blinded the exile to the force(as nomi blinded ulic's connection) and was not the same technique as nihilus did on his victims.
Err, yes, I did. I don't see what this has to do with anything; this was my entire point. You made it seem like what the masters did meant that it'd be unlikely for Nihilus to do it to Mace. Whether or not that's what you meant is not the case; it's clearly implied.
Not to mention, you didn't offer any valid proof on the matter that Mace could resist the effects for even a second, so. . . what exactly makes you think Nihilus wouldn't tear through his futile defenses?
Just like how you assumed luke is going to do the same thing(in a luke vs nihilus thread a couple of years back) without substantiating on how luke knows nihilus.
LMAO! "A couple of years back"? Quite frankly, updating my stance doesn't mean anything.
I could point out "a couple of years back" you seemed to possess the intelligence of a mentally retarded rancor, but that doesn't mean anything now, does it? As I said, some age-old stances have changed.
I'd like to ask a question, how do you know that nihilus really cut traya's force bond off when she stated(and when you brought it up in a thread i can't find anymore) that all life can't exist without the force and that she still remained alive and still could barely reach out with the force to attempt to grab her saber(it shook when she attempted to).If her connection was really cut
1) Why isn't she dead
2) If it was a similar techniue to just disable her connection, why could she still reach out with the force to attempt to grab her lightsaber?.
WTF? I never said he stripped her of the Force; the event wasn't even so much as referenced.
Although, what I would say is that he tossed her around like a ragdoll. And the fact that she couldn't even muster the strength to get her lightsaber just further proves Nihilus' power if we assume it was a Force push.
Plus, when we've seen Traya instapwn three esteemed Jedi masters, it's impressive that she couldn't withstand this power. And his telekinetic abilities aren't even close to his Force drain in the respect of power.
In any case, what the hell are you talking about? What does this have to do with anything?
Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
It took 3 [b]jedi masters to attempt to merely disable the exiles force sensitivity yet that took so long, what makes you think that nihilus can destroy mace windus force bond, a powerful force user that quickly?[/B]
It took Darth Traya a raise of her hand to severe all 3 masters from the force.
Originally posted by Advent
In any case, what the hell are you talking about? What does this have to do with anything?
Ah, and I think it should be mentioned as a possibility that Traya meant "stripped of her power" in the sense of being cast out of the Sith triumvirate anyways. She lost her power as a Dark Lady of the Sith. Unless I'm mistaken and she mentions being severed from the Force, which may be likely as I haven't played KOTOR2 in ages.
Originally posted by AdventWell i tried to use it as an example to substantiate my case but the end result is: i failed hence i will concede.Why mention it then? It has absolutely no relevance to the discussion at hand.
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Originally posted by AdventErr, yes, I did. I don't see what this has to do with anything; this was my entire point. You made it seem like what the masters did meant that it'd be unlikely for Nihilus to do it to Mace. Whether or not that's what you meant is not the case; it's clearly implied.[/B]
Actually i tried implying it this way(not that it matters but i just want you to know what i tried to imply earlier), that because it took 3 masters to temporarily blind the exile's(a slight above average force user ) force connection, its going to be more difficult for nihilus, a single individual to break another high ranking force users force bond.
But anyways i have conceded this point.
Originally posted by AdventYour right, i didn't and mace does not even have the fallanasi technique anyways but it was dumb of me to assume that he did. My bad.Not to mention, you didn't offer any valid proof on the matter that Mace could resist the effects for even a second, so. . . what exactly makes you think Nihilus wouldn't tear through his futile defenses?[/B]
Originally posted by AdventI honestly didn't notice because i don't spend much of my time on KMC these days, i barely even bother to argue the same old thing now and i don't browse through every single thread to notice that you changed your stance.LMAO! "A couple of years back"? Quite frankly, updating my stance doesn't mean anything. [/B]
But i sincerely apologise if you didn't like what i had typed out earlier or if you thought that i wanted to step on your toes.
Originally posted by Adventlol ok, but yes your right, i was possibly the most idiotic member on these boards at that time but that doesn't matter now.I could point out "a couple of years back" you seemed to possess the intelligence of a mentally retarded rancor, but that doesn't mean anything now, does it? As I said, some age-old stances have changed.
[/B]
Originally posted by AdventWTF? I never said he stripped her of the Force; the event wasn't even so much as referenced.[/B]
I just wanted to ask.... but i should have asked faunus, not you as you didn't bring it up but him, sorry again.
Originally posted by AdventAlthough, what I would say is that he tossed her around like a ragdoll. And the fact that she couldn't even muster the strength to get her lightsaber just further proves Nihilus' power if we assume it was a Force push. [/B]
I mean i have never seen any force user being unable to call out to their lightsaber just because they had been pushed, but then again i believe that its possible she was too physically weak to reach out with the force to pull her saber because of the massive impact that took place when she was brutally pushed into that pillar.
Originally posted by AdventOk.Plus, when we've seen Traya instapwn three esteemed Jedi masters, it's impressive that she couldn't withstand this power. And his telekinetic abilities aren't even close to his Force drain in the respect of power.[/B]
Originally posted by AdventWell i was going to list that possiblity earlier but i didn't have the time.
Ah, and I think it should be mentioned as a possibility that Traya meant "stripped of her power" in the sense of being cast out of the Sith triumvirate anyways. She lost her power as a Dark Lady of the Sith. Unless I'm mistaken and she mentions being severed from the Force, which may be likely as I haven't played KOTOR2 in ages. [/B]