Originally posted by Faunus
Nihilus stripped Darth Traya of her power with a wave of his hand - the three Jedi don't even approach him in that regard. Traya herself repeated the feat on those same Jedi as well as a squad of Sith assassins.
kavar, vrook, zez kai ell and the sith asassins are not anywhere on par with mace windu. so in that not i doubt he would fall as they did.
what nilius did to traya was AFTER she had been blindsided and taken a beating from sion. she was in no position to fight back. this is a 1 on 1, no sion, so a different result will ensue.
even at that i highly doubt it was a simple "wave of the hand" as the cutscene with krei ends when she says she suffered "indignities" it doesnt show nilius disconnecting her, for all we know it could have taken more time than just a second to sever them.
Originally posted by AdventOh, please. I'll be equally ridiculous: how is Mace even going to hid his Force sensitivity when he knows exactly squat about about Nihilus?
And he's demonstrated vast telekinetic abilities in any case. Which pretty much carry over to a lot of powers (Force choke, push, etc.). I don't see how Mace has done anything that would elevate him to the level of someone like Nihilus. [/B]
1) Mace doesnt need to hide his force sensitivity, visas didnt, the exile didnt but they turned out fine and beat him. now this wasnt even a fully powered exile or vsas but with mace, o boy, he is way above the two of them.
2) feats of nilihus vs feats of mace
nilihus ( taking who knows how long to strip traya from the force, eating people through the force many of whom were defenseless unlike mace, suffering force starvation, ripping a capital ship out of slipspace, which is not too big a deal because he has all day to do it and nothing else to do)
mace (using the force to cause a rockslide destroying countless droids, defeating siddious who is leagues upon leagues nilihus's superior. superconducting palpatine's FL to horribly disfigure him scarring him for life.)
with all feats considered why couldnt mace just use the force to cause parts of the ship to batter nilius then cut him down?
and what makes you think mace is ignorant of nilihus? ever heard of the jedi archives?
Nihilus was so powerful that he was more power than man, was he not? According to Darth Traya, had he kept up the developing pace of power, he would have been the end of all life. He had reached such a level of power that he percepted the universe differently than everyone else.
The guy lifted The Ravager of a planet and into space and he also wiped out an entire planet (Among all them people on it, a large number of Jedi). I believe that he would fail against Windu in a battle with sabers, but when it comes to the force I just can not see Windu stand up against him.
Originally posted by Obsidian FuryOnce again prove that he actually "lifted" the ravager from malachors gravity well. How was it done? How much strength had been exerted? How long did it take? Was a ritual involved?
The guy lifted The Ravager of a planet and into space and he also wiped out an entire planet (Among all them people on it, a large number of Jedi). I believe that he would fail against Windu in a battle with sabers, but when it comes to the force I just can not see Windu stand up against him.
You see, its inconclusive to say weather he really did lift the ravager with so many questions(that can't be answered) involved.
@MOC.
The exile didn't "loop out of the force" because she didn't need to as she was already a wound in the force which granted her immunity against nihilus, as for visas, nihilus didn't want to kill her.
Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
Once again prove that he actually "lifted" the ravager from malachors gravity well. How was it done? How much strength had been exerted? How long did it take? Was a ritual involved?You see, its inconclusive to say weather he really did lift the ravager with so many questions(that can't be answered) involved.
@MOC.
The exile didn't "loop out of the force" because she didn't need to as she was already a wound in the force which granted her immunity against nihilus, as for visas, nihilus didn't want to kill her.
"This ship… is it his weakness? It should not exist, yet it cruises the darkness between the stars. He tore it from the mass shadows of Malachor, along with his fleet… that is a measure of his power."
- Tobin
"One cannot have power of that magnitude and still think and perceive the universe as we do."
- Darth Traya
"Nihilus could also use the Force to lift starships, as he did on Malachor V with the Ravager, he tore it from the mass shadows that surrounded the planet and kept it together even though it had suffered extensive structural damage"
- Starwars.Wikia
"Drawing upon the Force, Nihilus lifted the Ravager beyond the mass shadows of Malachor V and left with it."
- Knights of the Old Republic
Originally posted by Obsidian FuryFallible third parties. Tobin was not there to witness the ship actually being dragged out of the gravity well hence his claims cannot be taken seriously.
"This ship… is it his weakness? It should not exist, yet it cruises the darkness between the stars. He tore it from the mass shadows of Malachor, along with his fleet… that is a measure of his power."
- Tobin
Originally posted by Obsidian FuryThis proves he lifted the ship how?
"One cannot have power of that magnitude and still think and perceive the universe as we do."
- Darth Traya
Originally posted by Obsidian FuryOh please, your using WOOKIEPEDIA?
"Nihilus could also use the Force to lift starships, as he did on Malachor V with the Ravager, he tore it from the mass shadows that surrounded the planet and kept it together even though it had suffered extensive structural damage"
- Starwars.Wikia
Originally posted by Obsidian FuryI wonder where did you get this, because Kotor 2 says otherwise.
"Drawing upon the Force, Nihilus lifted the Ravager beyond the mass shadows of Malachor V and left with it."
- Knights of the Old Republic
Direct quote from the loading screen
The ravager was hauled from the gravity well at Malachor V by its new master. He used it to escape imprisonment on Malachor V
Notice it said "hauled" which is subjective and could mean that he has used other means of pulling the ships out?
Originally posted by Schwarzenegger Direct quote from the loading screen
The ravager was hauled from the gravity well at Malachor V by its new master. He used it to escape imprisonment on Malachor VNotice it said "hauled" which is subjective and could mean that he has used other means of pulling the ships out?
v., hauled, haul·ing, hauls.
v.tr.
To pull or drag forcibly; tug. See synonyms at pull.
To transport, as with a truck or cart.
Informal. To compel to go, especially for trial: “hauled the huge companies into court” (Peter Matthiessen).
Nautical. To change the course of (a ship), especially in order to sail closer into the wind.
v.intr.
To pull; tug.
To provide transportation; cart.
To shift direction: The wind hauled to the east.
To change one's mind.
Nautical. To change the course of a ship.
n.
The act of pulling or dragging.
The act of transporting or carting.
A distance, especially the distance over which something is pulled or transported.
Something that is pulled or transported; a load.
Everything collected or acquired by a single effort; the take: a big haul of fish.
phrasal verbs:
haul off Informal.
To draw back slightly, as in preparation for initiating an action: “hauled off and smacked the hapless aide across the face” (Bill Barol).
To shift operations to a new place; to move away.
Thesaurus: haul
verb
To exert force so as to move (something) toward the source of the force: drag, draw, pull, tow, tug. See push/pull.
noun
The act of drawing or pulling a load: draft, drag, draw, pull, traction. See push/pull.
Something carried physically: burden1, cargo, freight, load. Sports impost. See heavy/light, over/under
US Military Dictionary: haul
v. 1. (of a vehicle) pull (an attached trailer or load) behind it: the train was hauling a cargo of liquid chemicals.
2. (especially of a sailing ship) make an abrupt change of course.
Translations for: Haul
Deutsch (German)
v. - ziehen, transportieren, befördern, (mar.) die Schiffsrichtung ändern
n. - Ziehen, Strecke, Fischfang, Beute
Asking me, there is more about "hauling" that point in the direction of it was the doing of his powers that sent the Ravager of Malachor V than anything else. I understand your scepticism in the matter, but Darth Nihilus was extremely powerful. If there is any force user that can pull of such a feat, it is he. He wiped out an entire planet (I'm not gonna go buy the comic to prove to you that he did so with utter ease, so believe it or not), which proves the range and magnitude of his powers.
Nothing has ever indicated that it is a feat Windu is capable of repeating. Mace Windu's force powers are dwarfed compared to the man who could have ended all life in the galaxy.
Originally posted by Obsidian Fury
v., hauled, haul·ing, hauls.v.tr.
To pull or drag forcibly; tug. See synonyms at pull.
To transport, as with a truck or cart.
Informal. To compel to go, especially for trial: “hauled the huge companies into court” (Peter Matthiessen).
Nautical. To change the course of (a ship), especially in order to sail closer into the wind.
v.intr.
To pull; tug.
To provide transportation; cart.
To shift direction: The wind hauled to the east.
To change one's mind.
Nautical. To change the course of a ship.
n.
The act of pulling or dragging.
The act of transporting or carting.
A distance, especially the distance over which something is pulled or transported.
Something that is pulled or transported; a load.
Everything collected or acquired by a single effort; the take: a big haul of fish.
phrasal verbs:haul off Informal.
To draw back slightly, as in preparation for initiating an action: “hauled off and smacked the hapless aide across the face” (Bill Barol).
To shift operations to a new place; to move away.Thesaurus: haul
verb
To exert force so as to move (something) toward the source of the force: drag, draw, pull, tow, tug. See push/pull.noun
The act of drawing or pulling a load: draft, drag, draw, pull, traction. See push/pull.
Something carried physically: burden1, cargo, freight, load. Sports impost. See heavy/light, over/underUS Military Dictionary: haul
v. 1. (of a vehicle) pull (an attached trailer or load) behind it: the train was hauling a cargo of liquid chemicals.
2. (especially of a sailing ship) make an abrupt change of course.
Translations for: Haul
Deutsch (German)
v. - ziehen, transportieren, befördern, (mar.) die Schiffsrichtung ändern
n. - Ziehen, Strecke, Fischfang, Beute
I'll counter all that with one simple question, how does "haul" equate to him using the force? What if he used machines? What if he had alot of manpower at his disposal? What if it was a ritual?
Again ill ask, find concrete evidence that he actually "hauled" the ravager with sheer force power DO that and i'll shut up.
Originally posted by Obsidian FurySee the above, him pulling the ship out with the force is nothing but pure speculation, hell this is getting so ridiculously speculative that i am going to assume that "ZOMG h3 h@d h3lP fRm g@laCtUs".
Asking me, there is more about "hauling" that point in the direction of it was the doing of his powers that sent the Ravager of Malachor V than anything else. I understand your scepticism in the matter, but Darth Nihilus was extremely powerful.
Originally posted by Obsidian FuryRight, it is impressive he wiped out a planet, but again what even hints that he did it with "utter ease".
If there is any force user that can pull of such a feat, it is he. He wiped out an entire planet (I'm not gonna go buy the comic to prove to you that he did so with utter ease, so believe it or not), which proves the range and magnitude of his powers.
If it was so damn easy to wipe out a planet, why the hell he couldn't kill mandalore? a NON force sensitive? Why the hell couldn't he kill the exile's party despite being so superior?
Simple, it is highly likely he needed massive concentration to pull off such a feet. Even palpatine needed to focus when he summoned the most powerful force power and that one time when he lost focus and control, he got his ass wiped hard.
Originally posted by Obsidian FuryJust who on earth is arguing windu > nihilus force wise? Not i.
Nothing has ever indicated that it is a feat Windu is capable of repeating. Mace Windu's force powers are dwarfed compared to the man who could have ended all life in the galaxy.
Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
Just who on earth is arguing windu > nihilus force wise? Not i.
The thread is Nihilus Vs. Mace, right? All I was doing was sharing my view on why Nihilus would win Force and All-Out. You were the one going into depth revolving insignificant details.
Who cares if he lifted it trough a ritual, or if he had machine help, or manpower help? The Ravager left Malachor V thanks to Nihilus. Tobin said that he tore it from the mass shadows along with his fleet. Said that it is a measure of his power. Then if you find it a reliable source or not, I do not really care. It's the closest to details I can come. We already know he is extremely powerful with the force, so it is not unlikely that he used it to lift the Ravager.
But out of curiosity, what machines would he have used? Or what ritual? In what way did he put his manpower to use?
Originally posted by Obsidian FuryWho cares if he lifted it trough a ritual, or if he had machine help, or manpower help? The Ravager left Malachor V thanks to Nihilus. Tobin said that he tore it from the mass shadows along with his fleet. Said that it is a measure of his power. Then if you find it a reliable source or not, I do not really care. It's the closest to details I can come. We already know he is extremely powerful with the force, so it is not unlikely that he used it to lift the Ravager.
No fleet, just the Ravager.
According to your quote
Originally posted by Obsidian Fury
"Drawing upon the Force, Nihilus lifted the Ravager beyond the mass shadows of Malachor V and left with it."
- Knights of the Old Republic
And the one that Ivalice and myself have posted before:
The ravager was hauled from the gravity well at Malachor V by its new master. He used it to escape imprisonment on Malachor V
Originally posted by Obsidian Fury
Tobin said fleet, and in my post that you quoted, I believe I specified that.
Yea because Tobin was there to witness it. And that quote can easily mean that the measure of Nihilus's power is the combined power of his personal power(in the force) to lift a ship (then notice the comma in his statement) and his militaristic power with a fleet.
Then why does your other quote I posted exclude a fleet?
Why does the loading screen mention only the Ravager?
Why the hell would he need to haul multiple capital ships from Malachor when he needed just one to escape? He would be wasting more "energy" lifting and then draging a fleet in space for god knows how long. Pretty stupid and illogical move.
If he did pull a fleet from malachor then why do we see those sith starfighters present at the battle of Telos when they were made after the battle of malachors (from the sat forge) if that fleet was from malachor then those fighters shouldn't be there.
Why aren't those sith interdictor ships not damage if they came from Malachor?
Sorry for Tobin but everything points to him only lifting the Ravager not a fleet.
Originally posted by Man of Christ
1) Mace doesnt need to hide his force sensitivity, visas didnt, the exile didnt but they turned out fine and beat him.now this wasnt even a fully powered exile or vsas but with mace, o boy, he is way above the two of them.
Firstly, the game depicts Nihilus as casually stunning the Exile and co. and having them at his mercy. He was even at a disadvantage then insofar that he hadn't been appeased his hunger (which he was planning on doing by destroying Telos).
Then when he does attempt to drain the Exile, it backlashes on him since she's a wound in the Force, thus weakening him. Finally, he had to fend off three powerful combatants. Even so, Visas stated that he was still "too powerful". And there's also a distinct possibility that Visas sacrificed herself to further inflict damage due to their Force bond.
It's complete rubbish to mention his defeat at the hands of the Exile as it had extenuating circumstances surrounding it.
2) feats of nilihus vs feats of macenilihus ( taking who knows how long to strip traya from the force, eating people through the force many of whom were defenseless unlike mace, suffering force starvation, ripping a capital ship out of slipspace, which is not too big a deal because he has all day to do it and nothing else to do)
Let's not be ridiculous now. You're clearly degrading Nihilus' feats to an extreme measure.
I don't even think he tried to sever Traya's Force connection; see my previous posts. In the case that it was nothing more than a Force push, then it speaks volumes for his power.
How would "having all day" to pull the Ravager out of the gravity well mean anything? Do you think he pulled it inch by inch? LOL. It's safe to assume he just ripped it out with his vast Force power when you consider he was capable of holding the same ship together so it could function properly even through hyperspace.
Also, I'm curious as to where Mace's defenses would be for a technique capable of consuming entire worlds. You've yet to offer any valid proof Mace can resist its effects.
mace (using the force to cause a rockslide destroying countless droids, defeating siddious who is leagues upon leagues nilihus's superior. superconducting palpatine's FL to horribly disfigure him scarring him for life.)
None of these put him on Nihilus' level. He managed to cause a rockslide, which in the manner you're describing it makes it seem like he didn't do much.
His defeat of Sidious was in a lightsaber battle only; same with redirecting Sidious' lightning back unto him. Nihilus' abilities aren't tangible so they can't be blocked with a saber.
The notion that ROTS Sidious is "leagues upon leagues Nihilus' superior" is hardly true. He is the most powerful, yes, but not in all regards. Not that it has any relevance since Mace only won due his skill with a blade.
with all feats considered why couldnt mace just use the force to cause parts of the ship to batter nilius then cut him down?
Because he hasn't demonstrated the power to do such? I could ask the same about Nihilus, who's telekinetic powers far outweigh Mace's.
and what makes you think mace is ignorant of nilihus? ever heard of the jedi archives?
Ever heard of offering up a factual basis to assume Mace magically knows all/anything about Nihilus? The default position would be skepticism here - Mace wasn't exactly a historian.
Still, while Nihilus' draining ability is his most devastating power, he's not lacking in the TK department (which encompasses powers like choke, push, etc.), so what can Windu actually do?
Originally posted by Advent
Since when was the technique the Jedi masters "attempted" to use on the Exile the same as Nihilus' devastating dark side ability? If I recall, Traya mentions its uniqueness to Nihilus alone;
No, you guys appear to be correct on the matter. According to what I've read, it would seem it isn't something that can be taught or learned by conventional means (Nihilus' power with it is unprecedented though). I was mistaken in saying it's unique to Nihilus. Sorry about that, I haven't played it in awhile.
Edit:
However, I don't think it is the same technique the Sith assassins use. That seems to be a normal Force drain whereas Nihilus' version is described as slowly draining all those around him just by standing there. He can, of course, focus it like he does when he destroys Katarr.
Obsidian, what do you think since you just finished a run-through of the game?