DE Sidious vs ROTS Yoda, Mace, Anakin, and Obi Wan

Originally posted by Faunus
In Shatterpoint, Depa simply closes her eyes, and when she opens them, they're "shadow." It takes a moment of concentration, that's it, but understandably longer when one is facing down the deadliest swordsman the Sith have ever produced.

Indeed, seemingly up to half of a minute, Faunus. Palpatine can reduce their number to half in, what? A third? Fourth? Fifth of that time? It would be no effort at all for him to dispose of Kenobi and Skywalker, and I would argue that it would be easier for him to remove them than it would for Yoda to "blitz" him and occupy his attention.

Well, it's Yoda. He's the only one here who can contend with Sidious under his own power, and while he has no chance of winning he can certainly keep him occupied long enough for Mace to get going.

He has no chance of winning, correct. Palpatine's mastery of the Force has increased exponentially. His Force lightning, pre-DE, was capable of reducing Sith acolytes to ash with one gout, destroying a batallion of stormtroopers, not to mention overpowering a Jedi general who was not only armed with a lightsaber, but capable of repelling Force lightning while laughing. How do you see that going? Palpatine is, at the very, very least, as fast as Yoda is and has increased dramatically in power. Should, for example, their lightning war occur again? Yoda's toast.

No match as in he can't win, but he's not outclassed to the point that he's no longer competition. I can definitely see him blitzing Palpatine in a manner similar to what Luke did to Caedus in an attempt to hold him off, and the Sith Lord won't have time to kill Skywalker, Kenobi, and Mace with the Force in the split second it would take Yoda to cover the distance between them. Not that Anakin and Obi-Wan really matter here at all.

He is competition only though experience, speed, technique, and Force powers. But what if Palpatine should attack Yoda with Force lightning?

Originally posted by Gideon
"Tap into his Force potential?"

Skywalker merely outclassed the Count in swordsmanship; Dooku would still do unholy, unspeakable things to him via Force mastery. You are comparing him to Palpatine, who is smarter, stronger, and faster than Dooku -- and who is also intimately aware of Skywalker's abilities and capabilities. Skywalker is nothing to Palpatine in a Force contest.

Meanwhile, Kenobi and Skywalker, the Jedi's ultimate team, didn't function too well against Dooku. What makes you think the addition of Yoda or Windu will make a difference?

That is why I said under Yoda's and Mace leadership they would be of help. As for Anakin outclassing Dooku in swordsmanship, how did he do that? It seem that Anakin mere brute force is what took Dooku out. When I say tap in force potential, I mean Anakin became stronger in the fight. If you want to attribute it to the dark side so be it. It is the samething Luke did to Vader.

Yes Vader could have schooled Luke in the force but Luke onslaught never gave him the chance. Point is Anakin and Obi Wan should be enough of an distraction to help Yoda and Mace engage Sidious in a saber battle.

I have to go so I may not respond quickly.

Originally posted by Faunus
Actually, sir, my mother is a respectable and scary, scary woman who s no one's biatch. It works ONE way, man. GET YOUR OWN LINES.

YOU LIE!

Originally posted by Faunus
So George Lucas is your mother?

Nope. He is your aunt.

Originally posted by Faunus
KC.

Lul wut?

Originally posted by DarkSerpent
No. You're wrong and Me and Gideon have proved it.

As Gideon's master, he is only right when I make it so.

I do not.

see page 2

Originally posted by Kotor3
That is why I said under Yoda's and Mace leadership they would be of help.

How? Windu and Yoda have not fought on the frontlines beside Skywalker and Kenobi. What in the whole of canon would lead you to believe that they would function as an efficient team, when Skywalker and Kenobi, the Order's greatest duo and tagteam, were unable to function as an efficient team against Dooku?

As for Anakin outclassing Dooku in swordsmanship, how did he do that? It seem that Anakin mere brute force is what took Dooku out.

The Clone Wars depicts Skywalker eventually overcoming and defeating the Count, with Dooku sitting on his ass and at his mercy. Dooku himself muses in Labyrinth of Evil that Skywalker was a "powerful" adversary on Geonosis. Arguably, Skywalker was always a threat in terms of lightsaber combat, but was far behind the Count in terms of three categories: skill, experience, and mastery of the Force. In Revenge of the Sith, he is already forcing Dooku back; the Count cannot compete with Skywalker's vast Force reserves and physical strength. When he decides to kill Dooku, he simply becomes an engine of destruction that none of the Count's skills can handle.

When I say tap in force potential, I mean Anakin became stronger in the fight. If you want to attribute it to the dark side so be it. It is the samething Luke did to Vader.

Vader was conflicted and restrained the entire time.

Yes Vader could have schooled Luke in the force but Luke onslaught never gave him the chance. Point is Anakin and Obi Wan should be enough of an distraction to help Yoda and Mace engage Sidious in a saber battle.

Nothing indicates that that would happen here.

Originally posted by Gideon
Indeed, seemingly up to half of a minute, Faunus. Palpatine can reduce their number to half in, what? A third? Fourth? Fifth of that time? It would be no effort at all for him to dispose of Kenobi and Skywalker, and I would argue that it would be easier for him to remove them than it would for Yoda to "blitz" him and occupy his attention.

He has no chance of winning, correct. Palpatine's mastery of the Force has increased exponentially.

His Force lightning, pre-DE, was capable of reducing Sith acolytes to ash with one gout, destroying a batallion of stormtroopers, not to mention overpowering a Jedi general who was not only armed with a lightsaber, but capable of repelling Force lightning while laughing. How do you see that going? Palpatine is, at the very, very least, as fast as Yoda is and has increased dramatically in power.

Should, for example, their lightning war occur again? Yoda's toast.

He is competition only though experience, speed, technique, and Force powers. But what if Palpatine should attack Yoda with Force lightning?

I'm not arguing that Yoda could challenge DE Sidious, who is younger, stronger, and more versed in the dark side than he ever was, and hope to win. Nor am I arguing that he could stand up to the full power of the Sith Lord's lightning for more than a few seconds. But in no capacity could Palpatine simply walk all over Yoda. I mean, the Jedi can run like no other, so dodging isn't out of the question. He has a lightsaber (which of course, like the rest of him, is prone to disintegration), and in this case he has three notable allies, one of whom can - provided he has a moment undisturbed - move as fast as Sidious himself.

Originally posted by Faunus
How exactly is he going to do this to Kenobi and Skywalker? Lightning? Telekinesis?

Is this a legitimate question or skepticism? Count Dooku was driven back by Kenobi and Skywalker and still had the time to drop down and hurl Kenobi across the room; he later (despite the novel's narrative describing Dooku on the verge of "shut down"😉 separated the two and KO'd Kenobi with minimal difficulty. Palpatine is far beyond the Count in terms of Force potency and mastery; they're not even close to being in the same league. If Dooku, despite being ignorant of Skywalker's upper tier abilities, could perform such a feat with telekinesis, it stands to reason that Palpatine could do it as well and with a fraction of the difficulty.

That's pushing it. He's learned more, he's increased the potency of his lightning, and gained access to Force storms. He would be challenged by his younger (RotS) self in a duel, he'd be pushed hard by his RotJ self in a Force battle. He's not "exponentially" greater in his Force capabilities.

One of them can destroy an entire fleet of state-of-the-art ships, each equipped with high end energy shields capable of taking gigatons of energy, transmogrifying an individual across time/space, and ripping the surfaces off worlds. The other, whose feats are incredible as well, cannot do that.

That's assuming Palpatine is going to knock the lightsaber out of Yoda's hand or disintegrate it - which would require his attention - and then reduce him to ashes before Mace cuts him in half. It's not as simple as "He does A to Skywalker/Kenobi, B to Mace, C to Yoda."

You speak as though Palpatine will have to devote enough attention to Yoda as he would in a political debate in the Rotunda. He wouldn't. Palpatine is easily capable of taking Kenobi and Skywalker out of the fight with laughable ease. Yoda is not enough to keep Palpatine from doing the same with the Force to Windu.

Yoda has a lightsaber, yes? Yoda has Mace Windu, who through Vaapad can amplify his speed to match that of Sidious himself. Yoda may have Anakin and Obi-Wan as fodder provided Palpatine doesn't do away with them immediately.

He, intimately familiar with the capabilities of Anakin Skywalker, is certainly capable and willing to do away with them immediately. Nothing Yoda or Windu can do will change that.

I'm not arguing that Yoda could challenge DE Sidious, who is younger, stronger, and more versed in the dark side than he ever was, and hope to win. Nor am I arguing that he could stand up to the full power of the Sith Lord's lightning for more than a few seconds. But in no capacity could Palpatine simply walk all over Yoda. I mean, the Jedi can run like no other, so dodging isn't out of the question. He has a lightsaber (which of course, like the rest of him, is prone to disintegration), and in this case he has three notable allies, one of whom can - provided he has a moment undisturbed - move as fast as Sidious himself.

Nonsense. Pre-DE Palpatine was capable of unleashing a veritable storm of Force lightning that encompassed an entire room. Palpatine doesn't miss with Force lightning.

Originally posted by Gideon
Is this a legitimate question or skepticism? Count Dooku was driven back by Kenobi and Skywalker and still had the time to drop down and hurl Kenobi across the room; he later (despite the novel's narrative describing Dooku on the verge of "shut down"😉 separated the two and KO'd Kenobi with minimal difficulty. Palpatine is far beyond the Count in terms of Force potency and mastery; they're not even close to being in the same league. If Dooku, despite being ignorant of Skywalker's upper tier abilities, could perform such a feat with telekinesis, it stands to reason that Palpatine could do it as well and with a fraction of the difficulty.

...

One of them can destroy an entire fleet of state-of-the-art ships, each equipped with high end energy shields capable of taking gigatons of energy, transmogrifying an individual across time/space, and ripping the surfaces off worlds. The other, whose feats are incredible as well, cannot do that.

You speak as though Palpatine will have to devote enough attention to Yoda as he would in a political debate in the Rotunda. He wouldn't. Palpatine is easily capable of taking Kenobi and Skywalker out of the fight with laughable ease. Yoda is not enough to keep Palpatine from doing the same with the Force to Windu.

He, intimately familiar with the capabilities of Anakin Skywalker, is certainly capable and willing to do away with them immediately. Nothing Yoda or Windu can do will change that.

Nonsense. Pre-DE Palpatine was capable of unleashing a veritable storm of Force lightning that encompassed an entire room. Palpatine doesn't miss with Force lightning.

Originally posted by Faunus
It wasn't skepticism, I'd just forgotten about the Dooku incident.

Very good.

...

Is this in response to my statement that Palpatine is 'far' superior to Dooku in the Force? It is true, after all.

I thought it wasn't through his own power, but by doing something... else. Doesn't the NEC or one of those books detail it?

My friend, you've been reading too much into Nebaris's theories. It's a Force technique that enables Palpatine to shatter space/time. It's not a ritual that requires meditation or an eye of newt or anything. Not that it's applicable here, either, unless he wanted to kill himself.

So are you saying that Palpatine is going to Anakin, Kenobi, and Mace out with a wave of his hand, then just obliterate Yoda?

That's exactly what I'm telling you. As combatants, they are a threat to him, certainly. Don't allow me to come off that way. As Force users, however, they aren't. Only Yoda.

I'm not saying Yoda or Mace will, I was questioning just how Sidious would prioritize.

It would seem fairly common sense to casually eliminate the weakest of the bunch before they could capitalize on a position to become a threat to him, does it not? The man's a genius, after all. None of his enemies are.

Originally posted by Gideon
How? Windu and Yoda have not fought on the frontlines beside Skywalker and Kenobi. What in the whole of canon would lead you to believe that they would function as an efficient team, when Skywalker and Kenobi, the Order's greatest duo and tagteam, were unable to function as an efficient team against Dooku?

Gideon you act as if they never knew each other and were just put in a situtation. Just like soliders within the same army they would coordinate between themselves.

Dooku was once Yoda student and those same teachings filiter down to his student down to Anakin. Jedi are taught how to fight together. You can say Anakin under Obi Wan's leadership was not a good team.

Originally posted by Gideon
The Clone Wars depicts Skywalker eventually overcoming and defeating the Count, with Dooku sitting on his ass and at his mercy. Dooku himself muses in Labyrinth of Evil that Skywalker was a "powerful" adversary on Geonosis. Arguably, Skywalker was always a threat in terms of lightsaber combat, but was far behind the Count in terms of three categories: skill, experience, and mastery of the Force. In Revenge of the Sith, he is already forcing Dooku back; the Count cannot compete with Skywalker's vast Force reserves and physical strength. When he decides to kill Dooku, he simply becomes an engine of destruction that none of the Count's skills can handle.]?

Our comments are the same here. I agree with this statement.

Originally posted by Gideon
Vader was conflicted and restrained the entire time. .

Vader stated "I see you have constructed your own lightsaber". Your skills are completed".

Vader recognize that Luke had reach a certian level. Vader expected Luke to defeat him. The sitituation is similar to the Anakin and Dooku fight. Both Vader and Dooku were the superior force users but they never got a chance to engage there opponent in a force duel and was overcome in saber combat. Like Anakin, Luke tap into his force reserves and defeated Vader.

You do realize, I hope, that none of what you said is relevant or pertinent to this thread, don't you?

Originally posted by Gideon
You do realize, I hope, that none of what you said is relevant or pertinent to this thread, don't you?

BTW let this die honestly

Originally posted by Gideon
You do realize, I hope, that none of what you said is relevant or pertinent to this thread, don't you?

Then why did you respond? Did you forget why we were talking about Anakin and Luke.

Luke and Vader was used as an example to show what Anakin did in his fight against Dooku which you were trying to say that it was not the same.

Point was that Anakin could boost his power also in the fight with DE Sidious. Thus he wouldn't be such an easy defeat with Yoda and Mace as a distraction for DE Sidious and would provide to be a helpful hand.

See I remember, do you remember why you are on this thread?

🙄

Originally posted by Kotor3
Then why did you respond? Did you forget why we were talking about Anakin and Luke.

Luke and Vader was used as an example to show what Anakin did in his fight against Dooku which you were trying to say that it was not the same.

Point was that Anakin could boost his power also in the fight with DE Sidious. Thus he wouldn't be such an easy defeat with Yoda and Mace as a distraction for DE Sidious and would provide to be a helpful hand.

See I remember, do you remember why you are on this thread?

🙄

Originally posted by Kotor3
Then why did you respond? Did you forget why we were talking about Anakin and Luke.

No, we are not talking about "Anakin & Luke", we are talking about Anakin & Kenobi and how they are relevant in this duel. They aren't, and your incessant ramblings that "LOLZ JEDI ARE LEARNED HOW TO FIGHT 2GETHER!" doesn't make it so.

Luke and Vader was used as an example to show what Anakin did in his fight against Dooku which you were trying to say that it was not the same.

If your goal is to reach new levels of incompetence, I've gotta tell you, you're fast succeeding.

LUKE AND VADER ARE IRRELEVANT.

Your point was something along the lines of "LOLZ YODA AND MACE WILL SOMEHOW JOIN WITH ANI AND OBI AND MAKE AN INCREDIBLE COHESIVE TEAM!"

My point was "LOL YOU'RE A RETARD. THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN SHOWN TO FIGHT ALONG SIDE ONE ANOTHER *proceeds to cite example of how the Jedi's greatest duo was unable to perform cohesively against Dooku*"

Your rebuttal was "LOLZ JEDI ALWAYS FIGHT WELL TOGETHER NAAA!"

Point was that Anakin could boost his power also in the fight with DE Sidious. Thus he wouldn't be such an easy defeat with Yoda and Mace as a distraction for DE Sidious and would provide to be a helpful hand.

Ah, yes, I did forget something. In addition to the verbal excrement you provided above, your other point was:

"LOLZ ANAKIN WILL AUTOMATICALLY HAVE A RANDOM BOOST IN TEH FORCE AND HELP OWN SIDZ!"

...Except you haven't proven how or when that will happen or how that somehow makes Anakin immune to Sidious's vastly superior Force energies.

See I remember, do you remember why you are on this thread?

🙄

Yeah, look, I'll only be nice about this once: you have made absolutely zero points of relevance. You haven't quantified or substantiated any of your asinine claims. You have in effect only succeeded in wasting space, much like DarkSerpent. You are no better than he is. Don't mock me, you're wasting time. Especially when I point out how big of an ass you are. When you want to be the e-bad boy or whatever on campass, at least make sure you're taken seriously.

You're not. Your points are shit. Accept it and move on with what little life you have on the side.

EDIT: I'll be damned. DarkSerpent actually made a logical and cogent point. Guess he's climbed over you in the debating ladder.

Originally posted by Gideon
No, we are not talking about "Anakin & Luke", we are talking about Anakin & Kenobi and how they are relevant in this duel. They aren't, and your incessant ramblings that "LOLZ JEDI ARE LEARNED HOW TO FIGHT 2GETHER!" doesn't make it so.

If your goal is to reach new levels of incompetence, I've gotta tell you, you're fast succeeding.

[B]LUKE AND VADER ARE IRRELEVANT.

Your point was something along the lines of "LOLZ YODA AND MACE WILL SOMEHOW JOIN WITH ANI AND OBI AND MAKE AN INCREDIBLE COHESIVE TEAM!"

My point was "LOL YOU'RE A RETARD. THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN SHOWN TO FIGHT ALONG SIDE ONE ANOTHER *proceeds to cite example of how the Jedi's greatest duo was unable to perform cohesively against Dooku*"

Your rebuttal was "LOLZ JEDI ALWAYS FIGHT WELL TOGETHER NAAA!"

Ah, yes, I did forget something. In addition to the verbal excrement you provided above, your other point was:

"LOLZ ANAKIN WILL AUTOMATICALLY HAVE A RANDOM BOOST IN TEH FORCE AND HELP OWN SIDZ!"

...Except you haven't proven how or when that will happen or how that somehow makes Anakin immune to Sidious's vastly superior Force energies.

Yeah, look, I'll only be nice about this once: you have made absolutely zero points of relevance. You haven't quantified or substantiated any of your asinine claims. You have in effect only succeeded in wasting space, much like DarkSerpent. You are no better than he is. Don't mock me, you're wasting time. Especially when I point out how big of an ass you are. When you want to be the e-bad boy or whatever on campass, at least make sure you're taken seriously.

You're not. Your points are shit. Accept it and move on with what little life you have on the side. [/B]

Don't worry. Though I believe most of your points lack any humor or relevance and you should conform or be banned, you have already identified yourself as a greater logician than this hack.

Originally posted by Gideon

EDIT: I'll be damned. DarkSerpent actually made a logical and cogent point. Guess he's climbed over you in the debating ladder.

Dudes, you know who could, like, totally solo DE Sids? If Exar visited Anakin and gave him his amulet, ROTS Pre-suit Vader.

Omgwhatawetdream.