I wasn't aware this was a debate. If you don't like my assessment, please - feel free to make your own. Nevertheless, I'll answer you anyway.
Originally posted by LS
A ringing endorsement from weaklings is hardly an endorsement. They refer to Naga's bloodline, which is amongst the pruest in the Empire. Ludo, a near full blood Sith, however, rivaled, if not equaled him with power.If Naga had full confidence in his abilities to do so, why did he not kill a weaponless Ludo openly defying his rule?
There's no evidence that he was nearly pure blooded nor Sadow's equal in power. Sadow comments more than once about how 'the blood of many Sith slaves must run in Ludo's veins.'...something to that effect. That's really the only reference we get regarding Ludo's blood or strength. Furthermore, Ludo walks out in the middle of a Council meet - along with his followers. You think Sadow's stupid enough to strike him down in the Council room? This is why he waits and sets him up.
Moreover, stop throwing out how it was 'probably' designed by Sadow unless there's proof. He's a master of mutating living beings and creatures. Show me a weapon he created and we can talk. Until then, it's a moot, neutral point
I can say what I like. Thank you. Occam's Razor would support my viewpoint about it 'probably' being designed by Sadow, since it is his ship, he's a great Sith sorcerer, and there's no evidence to suggest otherwise. Circumstantial evidence, when not contradicted by anything else - should be fine.
Or it's just that he views a metal hunk that shoots lasers a bit...crude?
Your interpretation, of course. Mine was mine. And since it was my assessment, I'm entitled to it.
According to...? And we throws one brick at Ludo. It hits. Ludo goes down. My great pardon for not really seeing how this is a ringing endorsement of Naga's combat abilities if someone who's pretty close to him in power goes flat on his ass when this happens.
It shows one brick missing (probably) and two more being pulled out. This is from the center of the tomb wall - I think that takes quite a bit of control, tearing out a few bricks and leaving the rest of the wall intact. If you don't, hurray for you?
Based on...?
Dark Side Sourcebook.
That puts him on the level of...A Fallanassi woman named Akanah. Illusions, especially when amplified by a Sith Meditation sphere, aren't an indicator of amazing power.
Good thing I didn't put his illusion prowess underneath 'raw power' then, and instead putting it where it belongs - in Force Mastery. Thanks for the irrelevant comment.
'It answered the call?' You say that like powering up a Sith Sword is mean to be ANY indication of power. Notice his amulets glowing when he powers it up as well.
Again, when did I suggest anything about power? That was posted under 'Combat Abilities.' I assume a powered up Sith Sword is leagues above a non-powered one, eh?
Also, almost uniformly? Sith sword wielders tend to get KILLED by saber users almost every time they fight. Sith on Coruscant? See any Jedi dead?
Let's get this straight, first of all. The "Sith" on Coruscant in Sadow's invasion were mostly his Massassi warriors. Show me one Sith Lord using his Sith Sword down there. You probably won't be able to do it.
Satal Keto vs. Ulic? Dark Underlord vs. Murtauggh?
Satal Keto isn't a Sith, he's a wannabe weakling against Ulic Qel-Droma who is a lightsaber prodigy. The Dark Underlord isn't even an ancient Sith.
If we ever saw a Sith Sword kill a Jedi, you'd have a point to make about the combat abilities.
As it stands, though?
I have a point, anyway. Know why? I was quoting source material.
"Sith Swords are effective against lightsabers because of the way their alchemically altered metal refracts the lightsaber's energy."
That wasn't my opinion - it was the omniscient writer of the Dark Side Sourcebook's.
....huh? Wanna....clue me in on this? Because the artwork is just indicating movement...
Again - your interpretation. If it was just indicating movement, why depict them so unevenly (with Sadow's four to Ludo's two)?
Ludo's bleeding because he had a brick thrown into his skull. He was still able to regain his feet before Naga could kill him, fight back and given that Naga's hat is smoking, land a hit or two.
Sadow strikes him before he can get to his feet, and it's parried. And if you want to go the hat route, Ludo's shoulder is also smoking.
...Saber resistant armor? again...clue me in here?
Unless Naga uses his amulets in a combat scenario, they don't seem to be remarkably useful, either
Dark Side Sourcebook. And, we've seen Exar Kun use Naga Sadow's amulets in a combat scenario, so yeah, they can be.
Of course 'just about anyone' precludes anyone who wields a saber with above average skill if the performance of Naga's contemporaries are any indication.
His duel looked pretty good. He can handle a blade well.
So...why not use it against Ludo? Why did all those dying Sith on Coruscant not break it out? Why didn't Dor Gal-Ram use it to save his life from the Massassi/
I should know, how? It's called PIS - Plot Induced Stupidity. Against Ludo they were dueling at the Tomb of the Dark Lords and obviously didn't want to level the place. There is no indication that the Massassi warriors who you keep incorrectly referring to as Sith are able to use the abilities of the amulets, and Dor Gal-Ram was being attacked in close quarters by 3-4 of his own people. They crowded him quickly. And even if he might have tried to use it - it's power would've probably blown a hole in the ship, causing them all to die.
Considering he makes Gav the freaking SECOND IN COMMAND of his fleet and really means it, Gav ain't that expendable.
He also gives Jori a Sith amulet to keep in touch with Gav. And clearly, Gav wasn't needed. Sadow's Massassi were advising him.
Considering three Sith Lords are gone and Naga has access to anything they might've left behind...And he gives his number 2 some important items.
Don't distort the facts. He gives Gav and Jori the amulets as soon as they are busted out of the prison cell. And he's never shown looting anyone's body.
How is this fear? He rebukes Sadow angrily...that's not fear
No? If I said to you, "you're a threat to us all," that would imply I'm pretty afraid of you.
Yeah, let's look at this 'brilliance'...
1. That Ziost attack depended TOTALLY on no actual Sith being there and he's lucky it was only a helpless Simus there anyways
2. This provides that no other Sith would bother to notice "Hey Naga was conveniently missing at the point when no other ship entered our territory to rescue this guys and only one of our own could've sneaked into the prison and these guards all have injuries curiously reminiscent of Massassi.'
Again: The Ancients are a bunch of idiots
Keep your sarcasm out of my assessment and write your own, then.
Based on? Coruscant was only 'ready to fall' due to overwhelming numbers that didn't exist and Naga would've run out of soldiers.
Knock out the capital, win the war. It's why the Germans targeted Paris in WWII. # of soldiers is irrelevant when you can create illusions on such a massive scale. Jori notes that, "They're attacking everywhere at once!"
When does he destroy a large number of Teta's fleet before the whole 'nova' thing?
The nova thing is what I'm speaking of.
'Nearly anyone?' Only if that opponent happens to be asleep.
Naga is a firm lower class to the elites. Any elite we've seen would kick Naga's pink ass unless they happen to be allergic to bricks.
That's nice. Write your own or don't talk.
Originally posted by Crimzon
Sources for the exact weights, please? Just wondering.
Dark Side Sourcebook.
Originally posted by Gideon
Dooku.
Ah, right.
Vader: the Ultimate Guide, page 19:
Vader imagined the power that could be his if he crushed Palpatine and established his own rule over the Empire. But first, he would need his own apprentice. By himself, he could not hope to defeat the most powerful Sith Lord the galaxy had ever known.
*laughs* Advent and GV would have you for breakfast. It's limited third person from an extremely biased and fallible POV.
And we know Vader/Anakin tends to exaggerate things where power is concerned.
No, it isn't. It isn't from Vader's POV at all. It's a sourcebook, En. The entire things is the same omniscient narrator as ever.
For anything else, it would need be prose. It's not. The closest it could get would be the short story 'In his image' where that quote isn't even from.
Kindly familiarize yourself with the source material first and then talk.
Originally posted by Enyalus
I wasn't aware this was a debate. If you don't like my assessment, please - feel free to make your own. Nevertheless, I'll answer you anyway.There's no evidence that he was nearly pure blooded nor Sadow's equal in power. Sadow comments more than once about how 'the blood of many Sith slaves must run in Ludo's veins.'...something to that effect. That's really the only reference we get regarding Ludo's blood or strength. Furthermore, Ludo walks out in the middle of a Council meet - along with his followers. You think Sadow's stupid enough to strike him down in the Council room? This is why he waits and sets him up.
I can say what I like. Thank you. Occam's Razor would support my viewpoint about it 'probably' being designed by Sadow, since it is his ship, he's a great Sith sorcerer, and there's no evidence to suggest otherwise. Circumstantial evidence, when not contradicted by anything else - should be fine.
Your interpretation, of course. Mine was mine. And since it was my assessment, I'm entitled to it.
It shows one brick missing (probably) and two more being pulled out. This is from the center of the tomb wall - I think that takes quite a bit of control, tearing out a few bricks and leaving the rest of the wall intact. If you don't, hurray for you?
Dark Side Sourcebook.Good thing I didn't put his illusion prowess underneath 'raw power' then, and instead putting it where it belongs - in Force Mastery. Thanks for the irrelevant comment.
Again, when did I suggest anything about power? That was posted under 'Combat Abilities.' I assume a powered up Sith Sword is leagues above a non-powered one, eh?
Let's get this straight, first of all. The "Sith" on Coruscant in Sadow's invasion were mostly his Massassi warriors. Show me one Sith Lord using his Sith Sword down there. You probably won't be able to do it.
Satal Keto isn't a Sith, he's a wannabe weakling against Ulic Qel-Droma who is a lightsaber prodigy. The Dark Underlord isn't even an ancient Sith.
I have a point, anyway. Know why? I was quoting source material."Sith Swords are effective against lightsabers because of the way their alchemically altered metal refracts the lightsaber's energy."
That wasn't my opinion - it was the omniscient writer of the Dark Side Sourcebook's.
Again - your interpretation. If it was just indicating movement, why depict them so unevenly (with Sadow's four to Ludo's two)?
Sadow strikes him before he can get to his feet, and it's parried. And if you want to go the hat route, Ludo's shoulder is also smoking.
Dark Side Sourcebook. And, we've seen Exar Kun use Naga Sadow's amulets in a combat scenario, so yeah, they can be.
His duel looked pretty good. He can handle a blade well.
I should know, how? It's called PIS - Plot Induced Stupidity. Against Ludo they were dueling at the Tomb of the Dark Lords and obviously didn't want to level the place.
There is no indication that the Massassi warriors who you keep incorrectly referring to as Sith are able to use the abilities of the amulets, and Dor Gal-Ram was being attacked in close quarters by 3-4 of his own people.
They crowded him quickly. And even if he might have tried to use it - it's power would've probably blown a hole in the ship, causing them all to die.
He also gives Jori a Sith amulet to keep in touch with Gav. And clearly, Gav wasn't needed. Sadow's Massassi were advising him.
Don't distort the facts. He gives Gav and Jori the amulets as soon as they are busted out of the prison cell. And he's never shown looting anyone's body.
No? If I said to you, "you're a threat to us all," that would imply I'm pretty afraid of you.
Keep your sarcasm out of my assessment and write your own, then.
Knock out the capital, win the war. It's why the Germans targeted Paris in WWII. # of soldiers is irrelevant when you can create illusions on such a massive scale. Jori notes that, "They're attacking everywhere at once!"
The nova thing is what I'm speaking of.
That's nice. Write your own or don't talk.
Originally posted by Enyalus
"[b]Vader imagined the power that could be his if he crushed Palpatine and established his own rule over the Empire."You're telling me a statement beginning with "So and so imagined" isn't from that character's POV? Really now? [/B]
Right, because omniscient narrators aren't aware of the desires of the characters in the piece? Really now?
Originally posted by Enyalus
"[b]Vader imagined the power that could be his if he crushed Palpatine and established his own rule over the Empire."You're telling me a statement beginning with "So and so imagined" isn't from that character's POV? Really now? [/B]
This isn't from Vader's POV at all since the only POV is the narrator describing things. It's not a story written from Vader's POV. End. Of. Story.
Originally posted by Gideon
Right, because omniscient narrators aren't aware of the desires of the characters in the piece? Really now?
Ding ding ding, you hit the mark. A lot faster than LS did. An omniscient narrator knows all of the thoughts of all of the characters. When it states: "Vader imagined," you might as well be saying, "Vader thought," and thus inside Vader's head, reporting what he is thinking. However, what he is thinking is not guaranteed to be accurate since it is from a specific character's view point. In this case, a very biased and damaged viewpoint with a history of exaggerating people's power (mainly his own).
Look, I don't care if you use it or not. I'm just saying, if you pull that shit on Advent, she'd destroy it in a second. Because it IS from Vader's POV, and thus fallible.
To reiterate: the narrator knows what Vader is thinking and reports it - that does not mean that what Vader is thinking must be accurate.
No, it ISN'T. It's saying how Vader feels at one point and since the entire thing is NOT from his POV at all, it remains the work of an omniscient narrator. what Vader is thinking ends at him knowing he couldn't defeat Palpatine.
Fact is, any title given to Palpatine is from the omniscient narrator. Advent trying to fight it would be nothing short of futility. Full stop.
Kindly learn how POVs and perspectives work in literature.
He's reporting what Vader is thinking. Problem? The elaborations are all the narrator.
