Frank would never beat Cassie in H2H.
She'd read his moves and wipe the floor with him. She's deciphered an entire fighting style from a single move. She's also beaten Lady Shiva.
Outdone? Frank is the one who's outdone. Joker's madness has freaked out Spectre
and driven gods insane.
No one on Marvel earth, or hell, even marvel cosmics has that level of madness. Frank has never faced someone like Joker.
Hush? Really? Joker was written like shit in Hush. Loeb had no clue how to use him.
And didn't Cresh&I smoke you&Alf the last time this thread came up?
~Sado
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Who? Give me an example of a more proficient mind-f*cker than the Joker who couldn't succeed in messing with Frank's head.
Colonel de sade, the guy sent him a snuff video were he killed young women on it. 😐 in my opinion thats worse then what Joker did to Barbara. All it did was make Punisher focus....oh and that guy skinned a women alive in vietnam the guy is more sadistic than Joker. He only had two showings because Punisher killed him.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Yeah? When they were personally out in a battle to the death? PROVE IT.
He didn't fight them personally he defeated there plans. That doesnt matter anyway because were not talking about 1 on 1 fights but prep. You want me to prove that Doom is more inteligent than Joker? Doom has been a universal threat three times. How many times has Joker done that? Also Doom has conquered the earth at least once. The High Evolutinary used his intelligence to give himself god-like powers.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
False; the trap can be more cleverly or differently conceived than anyone Punisher's ever faced. Now, what trap did HE avoid?
PLEASE! The trap in killing joke was spikes covered by a wooden trap door. The trap that Punsiher avoided was spikes covered by grass. Yes they are different but I gues because they are not 100 % the same theres no way in hell that Punisher would notice.
Like I said he didn't not recognise the trap because grass was standing up or anything, he just got a feeling.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Prove it.
You really don't know who Dr Doom is do you? Like I said hes achieved more than Joker has. I can't remember whats traps hes used but hes is more intelligent than JOker is. Doom is a time travel expert for crying out loud. His main enemy is Reed Richards (Mister Fantastic) who is more intelligent than Batman. If you don't know you had better ask somebody or go to the respect thread.
Originally posted by Master CrimzonFor instance, in The Killing Joke, the Joker evidently dipped a needle with some Joker Venom and used it to kill the owner of the amusement park; evidently, even if is directly absorbed through the bloodstream, it can be lethal.
That means that even if the Punisher is grazed by any of the Joker's spikes, it can be potentially lethal.
Also, although I can't think of an example at the moment, I'm fairly sure it was absorbed through the pores sometimes.
Is that what you mean? Of course if he does that it can be lethal.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
I did; when Punisher is struggling with the Joker's traps, the Joker shoots him with a machine gun. Now, how is the Punisher gonna come out of that?
Oh please give me a break. Why are you assuming that Joker can get him in that poistion in the first place. You're just making up scenerios now.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Well, either Mxy is EXTREMELY stupid or the Joker is EXTREMELY smart; well, mainly because it's not demonstrated percisely what the Joker says to Mxy, but evidently he needs to be smart in order to trick him in such a fashion.
He doesn't have to be extremely stupid. Im not arguing that Joker isn't smart but you don't even know wether Mxy has genuis level intelligence, theres nothing to indicate in Mxys showings that he has above average intelligence.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Oh, and Dr. Doom is an extremely potent combatant- the Joker is also a highly effective killer, but he's a street-leveller. Doom isn't. Punisher IS.
Whats your point?
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
The Joker was a universal threat once, too, and also happened to devastate the world simply because he wanted to; his toxins are quite complex, displaying that not only is he a master planner and thinker, he also has excellent knowledge of chemistry (to my knowledge, no single person ever replicated that Venom).
He was a universal threat once? Well i got three examples for Doom. I also thinks hes conquered the earth twice.
Doom >> Joker.
Originally posted by Master CrimzonHow do Doom's 'street-level' feats- which he evidently used to get Punisher- compare to the Joker's? The Joker does everything with smarts and insanity, not with cosmic power.
Doom doesn't have cosmic powers whats your point? HE (High Evolutinary) may have cosmic powers but he used his intelligence to create them, he also has more advanced tech than Joker can create etc etc.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Like who? I cannot think of a more violent and insane killer than the Joker in Marvel. Well, maybe except for Carnage, but Carnage doesn't compare to the Joker's intelligence.
Colonel de Sade has done stuff more twisted than Joker has.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
He fooled Batman- the 'world's greatest detective', who is a far superior logician and detective than Frank- on multiple times, thanks to his apparent randomness and insanity (see The Man Who Laughs).
Yeah he fooled him with a piece of wood...LOL. Anyway Doom has outmsarted Reed Richards before , who is more intelligent than Batman, so that don't neccesarily prove anything.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Ha. Ha. Ha. Knowing more doesn't make you the world's greatest detective- Batman is a certified genius and combat expert (ninja training versus advanced army training), more so than Frank. By far.
Doesn't matter anyway just because Joker has tricked Batman doesnt means hes tricking Frank as explained earlier.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Really, now that's Marvel bias. You actually think that Batman is not smarter than Captain America? Really...?
Thats not what I said is it? Cap is more intelligent than Frank is, however that didn't stop Cap from using his plan of attack instead of his own.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
No, Batman >>> Punisher in terms of intelligence.
Doesn't matter I already explained this.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
In direct combat? In a prep war?I don't think so.
LOL what have I been talking about for the last couple of posts. Doom tried to kill him twice he failed. HE tried to kill him he failed. Thats all you need to know stop trying to nitpick and make excuses.
Originally posted by Master Crimzoninside' limits the distance and gives you more options to disguise the trap.
Now you're just making stuff up. You're not an expert at making traps you don't know that but im sure you can convince yourself that its true.
Originally posted by Master CrimzonBy the way, who designed KP's security system? Is it anyone on par with the Joker, in any shape or form?
I don't bloody know but I know KP doesnt hire crap. The only reason why I brought up this point was to tell you that what the guy did was impressive. He may not be on par with the Joker but HE and Doom are better.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Alright. Now prove that the trap was as well-made as the Joker's, whose traps regularly fool Batman- a 'super-genius'- who is far superior to the Punisher in reasoning and intelligence.
Please GMAFB! The traps were very similar, stop nitpicking. Yes they were not exactly the same but there not exactly miles a part either.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
*cough*postanargument*cough*
Ok Frank has blasted Cap twice from long range. Cap >>>>> joker in speed. The reason why Cass had a problem with Joker was because she could not read his body language not because he was fast.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
-Shoots Barbara Gordon in the spine and paralyzes her at a whim.
-Constantly slaughters his own henchmen and even other supervillains (Psimon in Salvation Run, for instance)
-Gassed a room full of people just to practice the effectiveness of his gas
-Shot Sarah Essen Gordon and proceeded to taunt her husband about it.
-Beat the sh*t out of Jason Todd with a crowbar and blew him up.
-Scared Gotham to hell multiple times
-Drove a cop insane in the No Man's Land arc, causing him to kill his own friends (disguised in makeup and green hair) and prooceed to be killed himself.
-Disfigured and tortured Alexander Luthor before killing said person.
Any of that stuff worse than skinning a women alive, or creating a video which shows young women getting murdered on it? Don't think so.
Originally posted by Sado22joker not unpredictable. i practically have to stop myself from screaming out whats he going to do next. pssst.....he'll escape, free thugs from Arkham and hide from batman in "top secret" areas which happen to be amusment parks with his face all over it.
~Sado
LMFAO! F*king hillarious.
Tweedle Dumb and Tweedle Dumber agree that their mutual mancrush wins. Who'd have thunk it.
Spectre's powers A Savage Innocence, Myx's powers Emperor Joker, the Worlogog Rock of Ages. Essentially taken over the world. Joker's Last Laugh.
Because one clearly has to be classed as a universal or global threat to beat Punisher.
Joker wins in a prep scenario.
Punisher wins in a direct confrontation.
Cassandra Cain beats the living shit out of Punisher in a h2h confrontation.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Spectre's powers
Doesn't prove he beats him. That just how messed up his mind is.
[i]Originally posted by xmarksthespot
A Savage Innocence[/i], Myx's powers Emperor Joker,
Establish how smart Mxy is first, he doesn't come across as being of genuis intellect.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
the Worlogog Rock of Ages. Essentially taken over the world. Joker's Last Laugh.
Well thats great Dr Doom and HE have more impresive feats.
Originally posted by xmarksthespotBecause one clearly has to be classed as a universal or global threat to beat Punisher.
Try not misinterpret what people are saying. The point is simple. You can list out Jokers feats till you go red in the face. The fcat of the matter is that Punisher has survived attacks by people who are more dangerous and smarter than Joker therefore Joker does not neccesarily get the win. Not too difficult to understand.
Originally posted by Sado22
😂
whats cracking PZ? long time no see? 😄
Sup? Just building up my comic collection gonna have to give it a rest for awhile though. 🙁
why are you guys even arguing? training/experience >>> sadism.
If anything The Punisher is just as crazy if not crazier than The Joker... He would see right through his home alone traps and gib him any way possible... even if that meant burning down half the city to do it. I think some of you Joker guys are underestimating Frank as he's already been through much worse than pretty much anything The Joker can throw at him and lived. I think some of you need to do a little more research on Frank before you go off saying that The Joker is smarter or crazier than he is...
Oh and by the way the people saying that Joker is smarter than Dr. Doom lol, that's some funny shiat
Edit: Oh and just to let you know The Joker is my favorite Villain right after Dr. Doom but i show no bias when i say that Joker isn't anywhere on Dr. Dooms level...
That is all
Originally posted by Culebra
why are you guys even arguing? training/experience >>> sadism.If anything The Punisher is just as crazy if not crazier than The Joker ... He would see right through his home alone traps and gib him any way possible... even if that meant burning down half the city to do it. I think some of you Joker guys are underestimating Frank as he's already been through much worse than pretty much anything The Joker can throw at him and lived. I think some of you need to do a little more research on Frank before you go off saying that The Joker is smarter or crazier than he is...
Oh and by the way the people saying that Joker is smarter than Dr. Doom lol, that's some funny shiat
Edit: Oh and just to let you know The Joker is my favorite Villain right after Dr. Doom but i show no bias when i say that Joker isn't anywhere on Dr. Dooms level...
That is all
You really believe that...
Does Dr Doom with prep beat the Punisher?
Does High Evolutionary with prep beat the Punisher?
Does one have to be superior to Dr Doom and High Evolutionary with prep to beat the Punisher?
Does it really matter what someone who thinks Punisher > Doom, HE and Mr Fantastic with prep thinks?
Does your mancrush know no bounds?
The sequence goes yes, yes, no, no, yes.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Does Dr Doom with prep beat the Punisher?
Does High Evolutionary with prep beat the Punisher?
Does one have to be superior to Dr Doom and High Evolutionary with prep to beat the Punisher?
Does it really matter what someone who thinks Punisher > Doom, HE and Mr Fantastic with prep thinks?
Does your mancrush know no bounds?The sequence goes yes, yes, no, no, yes.
[/thread]
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Does Dr Doom with prep beat the Punisher?
Does High Evolutionary with prep beat the Punisher?
Yes they do but the comics showed that Punisher can give them both trouble if they try to kill him. Doom would have caught him in the end but was impressed by how difficult it was to catch him.
Again the point is that both these guys are better than The Joker, if he can give guys that good that much trouble you can't assume that Joker will win. Again this is not a hard concept to grasp.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Does one have to be superior to Dr Doom and High Evolutionary with prep to beat the Punisher?
No you don't, but just because you are good as The Joker does not neccesarily mean you are going to beat Pun with prep either. So answering no to that question does not prove your point.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Does it really matter what someone who thinks Punisher > Doom, HE and Mr Fantastic with prep thinks?
Does your mancrush know no bounds?The sequence goes yes, yes, no, no, yes.
Well its good that I don't think that then. Again stop misinterpreting what posters are saying. The answers to the question don't prove anything.
Originally posted by SuperiorTech
You really believe that...
yes... Just because the Joker is sadistic doesn't necessarily mean he's crazier... The Punisher is pretty damn insane some would say even beyond the point of reason. At least the Joker may rationalize with someone just to play with his prey a little and to have things go his way in the end. The Punisher wouldn't do that, he's just to engulfed in fulfilling his missions that he'd tell whomever whatever they wanted to hear while he tortured them, then kill them on the spot, and if they didn't tell him what he's looking for them he'd kill them anyways and find his answers elsewhere. There's no rationalizing with a person like that, at least Joker would want to have some fun.
Does anyone think Punisher stands any chance against Doom with prep to the best of his abilities?
Does anyone think Punisher stands any chance against High Evolutionary with prep to the best of his abilities?
Does anyone think that low showings by either character means that a character needs to match or surpass Doom or HE prepwise/featwise at their best to be able to conclusively say a character beats Punisher?
The sequence goes only you and Tweedle Dumber, thrice.