Tinn is, of course, extraordinarily alarmed by the events in Sienar's office.
"Be exceptionally careful, Andro," he says. "I won't lecture you on the folly of giving into your emotions.
"What I will do, though, is remind you how many times in history bad things were done by those with good intentions, whether they realised it or not. Very, vvery few turn into evil people thiing they were doing evil. Miost people who perform evil actions find a way to justify them. But our truth flows from the Force and it cnanot be denied. You sought to maybe do good by sacrifcing yourself to the Dark to save ytour friend. it does not work like that. A Dark act is a dark act, regardless of whaty good you think it would bring. I will tell you now- if Jedi thought they could do good by falling to the Dark Side with the intention of improving the situation for others, the Jedi would have long turned into being the Sith. You must not let your own ideas- even your desperation to bring justice for Gallagher and to stop Sienar- to allow yourself to be brought to evil. That would be the greatest failure of all.
"But be doubly beware, Andro. You are clearly within Sienar's web. Even in resisting the urge to kill him, you may be following his design. Be not proud or triumphant that he has not turned you, for you may still fall into his hands, and regret your actions later in the day. Be ever aware. he will seek to turn all your actions- and I mean all of them- to his advantage, and the triumph of the Dark.
"So you must remain within the law, Andro. Sienar has directly taunted you that this will not work. That is why you must do it. Not because it works or does not work. But because it is right. That is what we must strive to. That is the heart of the Jedi order. Sometimes we fail, and badly. But we always strived to the Light. If we lose that, if we compromise our values just to gain results, then we are lost. He knows your temptation to get results. That is how he will doom you- and it may yet be how he will win.
"You face a foe unlike any other you have faced, Andro. Unlike any other even Roan has faced, for all his experience in meeting the Dark Side. A true Master of the Dark Side- not just in power, but in mind."
Ok so what I'm getting from this is that Sienar is going to someone we are going to have to outwit, we arn't going to get to a point where we all draw lightsabers and hack each other to bits. (as much as I enjoy this point.)
So we are going to have to play this game of wit. Doesn't mean we can't mess with the rules a little bit.
So lets start with us.
We have nothing. All our leads have kaputed, all we have to go on is the hope that something will happen at the senate party thing to give us a new direction. But we can't afford to wait for opportunity to come and hit us in the face, we need to make it for ourselves.
So on the vein of making opportunity for ourselves, where does Sienar think he has us?
Well he knows he cut off all our leads, but we know that too, so nothing exciting there, we just need new leads that he doesn't know about.
He knows how fragile Andro is, and how connected to Gallagher he is. We might be able to exploit that by making it appear that he is more fragile than he is, but thats a really slippery slope and I really don't wanna have to go there.
Time is of the essence, we know this Sienar knows this too, so he's trying to delay us. We can't let him do that, and he's succeeding now, we kinda went back and cowered out of a lack of other things to do. We need to keep in action and keep doing stuff.
We also have two unexplained actions of Sienar that I think deserves analysis. First off, he up and gave us the invitations to the senate thing. Why would he do that? Why does he want us there? Is it an act of public goodwill? I don't think so, I think its a way to force us to be somewhere while something else goes on. But now we are in a tight spot, we kinda have to go to this thing. But I think we should not all be there, at least not at the same time. We need to make the appearance, but still continue the investigation and not let him get away with anything while we are gone and tied up.
Also, why was he so quick to tell us we had failed, and how couldn't stop him. This either means that he has already inacting something he sees as inevitable and beyond our touch, (which is what he said to us explicitly) or he is bluffing and taunting us. We need to find out which one is which.
So what else can we look into? Maybe the drug smuggling? That might help us turn up some stuff if we look into ay potential drug smuggling things on this planet.
On Besh's wisdom, Jelena feels that Nebb is a symbol for corruption and the abuse of the legal system and politics, such things creating roadblocks for the Jedi.
She agrees about Kathya. Jelena will suggest to the others that they try to dig deeper on Varm's life- we know almost nothing about the man, perhaps that may turn up clues- and somehow get at Kathya, who for now is legally protected.
On Roan's thoughts, combined with some of Besh's wisdom, Jelena thinks that Sienar is trying to appear confident in order to mislead us and weaken our resolve. If we think that we cannot stop him, then we won't. Such is the way of the Dark Side, intimidation.
About using Andro's apparent sensitivity somehow, Jelena won't go with that. It goes against Master Tiin's warnings to Andro. I don't mean to treat Andro like he is weak (he is very much not) but we do need to be careful with him. We cannot risk him falling to the Dark Side, it would be a failure and we would have to divert our attention from Sienar to apprehending Andro.
I agree that the Senate meet-and-greet seems like a way to keep us preoccupied. Perhaps Jelena and Roan could go, while Andro and Sunda pursue other interests? Though what those interests are we will have to establish, otherwise we may as well all go. I also think we should look to develop connections with important figures.
Jelena also wants to think about what Sienar can gain from his situation. Where does it leave him if the Senate does not agree with his views? Where does it boost him if they do? And what is he capable of once he attains the post of Archimandrite? Jelena will query Besh with these if she does not know the answers herself.
Being Archimandrite means he speaks for the entire Synod; it gives him a great deal of political power. But there is no obvios gain for him that can be seen in the way you mean. You can start to look into the Synod's position on thge matter, and even (following on from what Roan's contact told him) why it is being held here, if you wish.
The invitations are to you all and it looks very dodgy indeed if only some of you turn up.
The drug smuggling is not connected to here at all- though it is a good idea to remember all the separate elements of Sienar's plan.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Tinn is, of course, extraordinarily alarmed by the events in Sienar's office."Be exceptionally careful, Andro," he says. "I won't lecture you on the folly of giving into your emotions.
"What I will do, though, is remind you how many times in history bad things were done by those with good intentions, whether they realised it or not. Very, vvery few turn into evil people thiing they were doing evil. Miost people who perform evil actions find a way to justify them. But our truth flows from the Force and it cnanot be denied. You sought to maybe do good by sacrifcing yourself to the Dark to save ytour friend. it does not work like that. A Dark act is a dark act, regardless of whaty good you think it would bring. I will tell you now- if Jedi thought they could do good by falling to the Dark Side with the intention of improving the situation for others, the Jedi would have long turned into being the Sith. You must not let your own ideas- even your desperation to bring justice for Gallagher and to stop Sienar- to allow yourself to be brought to evil. That would be the greatest failure of all.
"But be doubly beware, Andro. You are clearly within Sienar's web. Even in resisting the urge to kill him, you may be following his design. Be not proud or triumphant that he has not turned you, for you may still fall into his hands, and regret your actions later in the day. Be ever aware. he will seek to turn all your actions- and I mean all of them- to his advantage, and the triumph of the Dark.
"So you must remain within the law, Andro. Sienar has directly taunted you that this will not work. That is why you must do it. Not because it works or does not work. But because it is right. That is what we must strive to. That is the heart of the Jedi order. Sometimes we fail, and badly. But we always strived to the Light. If we lose that, if we compromise our values just to gain results, then we are lost. He knows your temptation to get results. That is how he will doom you- and it may yet be how he will win.
"You face a foe unlike any other you have faced, Andro. Unlike any other even Roan has faced, for all his experience in meeting the Dark Side. A true Master of the Dark Side- not just in power, but in mind."
"Master, I will not let Seinar tempt me again, I no longer worry about that. I told him immediately why I would not, much along the lines of what you have said. Although you make the point better that I did, I think. Either way, my worry about staying in the law concerns Kathya. She is the last link to Seinar's plotting. I think we must try one more time to speak with her and attempt to use reason to get the info we need. Otherwise the only option I can imagine involves... subterfuge.
After that, we can only hope to glean some info from Senators, and try to determine what Seinar may be attempting to accomplish. Attack the problem from the other end, as I see it. It would be a daunting task indeed to try to divine his plans that way.
And what about Gallagher? I cannot understand why we can't just take him back. Forgive me, but if he is considered a hostage then we should demand for his return, by force if necessary. It would not be the first time. If he is staying and working with Seinar voluntarily, which I do not beleive, but they claim; why can we not get a warrant to question him? Gallagher was seen leaving a crime scene with Seinar, after all. Seinar has manipulated him into refusing to even speak with us, in either case I've described, I would not think that is a good sign. I am not a student of the law, beyond what the Order has taught me, but I am certain I could find precedents for both of these cases."
Originally posted by Ushgarak
The invitations are to you all and it looks very dodgy indeed if only some of you turn up.
We are apparently bound by courtesy to be there, but no law says we have to be there all at the same time, or to stick together the entire evening. We have made no secret we are here working on an investigation, especially to the one we are investigating. It can't be expected that we drop everything for a social gathering, can it? Even if it can, no reason one of us can't fall ill partway through, as a matter of escaping the couresy trap.
I had assumed that some key element of Seinar's plan would go down hat the party, adn he wanted to wave it in our faces. Even if whatever that was is not glaringly obvious, but he would still point out that something key happened under our noses. Now I wonder is Tpt's point is the truth. SO why not be both places, there and not? ALthough we'd have to come up with specifically what we wanted to accomplish/watch/investigate if someone did leave the party.
Originally posted by Jazzman_78
"Master, I will not let Seinar tempt me again, I no longer worry about that. I told him immediately why I would not, much along the lines of what you have said. Although you make the point better that I did, I think. Either way, my worry about staying in the law concerns Kathya. She is the last link to Seinar's plotting. I think we must try one more time to speak with her and attempt to use reason to get the info we need. Otherwise the only option I can imagine involves... subterfuge.After that, we can only hope to glean some info from Senators, and try to determine what Seinar may be attempting to accomplish. Attack the problem from the other end, as I see it. It would be a daunting task indeed to try to divine his plans that way.
And what about Gallagher? I cannot understand why we can't just take him back. Forgive me, but if he is considered a hostage then we should demand for his return, by force if necessary. It would not be the first time. If he is staying and working with Seinar voluntarily, which I do not beleive, but they claim; why can we not get a warrant to question him? Gallagher was seen leaving a crime scene with Seinar, after all. Seinar has manipulated him into refusing to even speak with us, in either case I've described, I would not think that is a good sign. I am not a student of the law, beyond what the Order has taught me, but I am certain I could find precedents for both of these cases."
"Listen to me, Andro. Yopu must heed very carefully mt wanring about not being too proud about resisting Sienar. You say you no longer worry about that. As I said, such feelings may play into his hands. You must stay extremely wary les you in some way aid his cause, which is his hope. And if you feel I made my point well, the you should heed it all. You have no warrant or legalluy admissable evidence of criminal activity. Your talk of subterfuge is asking me to condone you breaking the law. I will not condone it, either morally or practically. Not morally because it is wrong, and not practically because you only have to put one foot wrong with those Senators around and the Council will be forced to suspend its investigation, thereby handing victory to Sienar.
"As for Gallagher- if he has not expressed a wish to return, what can you do? What do you propose, taking him by force? Will you kill everyone who stands in your way? Will you fight Gallagher himself to force him to come with you? Can you not see what extreme folly all that would be? And your desire to get a warrant borders on the farcical- you expect the Order to implicate one of our own in the matter? On what possible grounds? We could make him testify as a witness if thsis ever comes to trial, if that was necessary and we thought it sensible, but a warrant for a man not connected with any crime, a Jedi, and probably our most vital link in eventually stopping Sienar? Well, it matters not because we have no grounds to get one from the courts anyway. I'll remind you that there is no crime scene currently connected with Sienar or Gallagher. The investigation was predicated on Father Varm being responsible. More importantly, unless we have extreme evidence or demonstrable cause for concern, no court will give us the authoirity to serve a warrant on the Basilica- it is direct interference in the affairs of a sovereign world. Extreme cases require extreme proof. A hundred Senators would delay and protest the move- and hundreds more would do the dame whilst they are meeting in that very building."
He sighs.
"I doubt the legal situation interests you. I would listen the most to my first words- that if Gallagher does not want to come, what possible good can you do by forcing the issue? You have very little to gain, and a great deal to lose.
"As for diving Sienar's plans- that is indeed what you must do. You must work out his plan and as fast as possible. And that is the true challenge you face. Sienar has all the power and cunning of the Sith Lords of old. Think about that power of the Dark Side, Andro. What is the Dark Side's greatest power?"
"But Gallahger..." Andro starts, but thinks better of it. "Very well, Master. I will leave the issue alone. And I am not proud of either attempting or resisting the assassination of Seinar. I merely mean I understand why I should not, and will not, kill him unless he strikes first. Even then, by this point I will have to think very hard about whether or not killing him even then is a part of his plan." He, too, sighs. "It's a game of wits then. Very well. Thank you Master, I can only hope to live long enough to learn half your wisdom. May the Force be with you." He comments sincerely."
"True, though mistaking effect for cause. Remember, Power is a matter of getting it... and then using it. The Sith confused the two, taking power as the end, so the could never saucceed. The Sith were obsessed with just the potential of being able to do what they wanted... but never had any clear idea what it was they actually wanted it for. Power for what reason? Ruling for what reason? This was their doom. Seeing power as the only commodity they wanted, they tore themselves to pieces vying for it."
You walk through the streets of the warm city, with many cheering Sienar as he walks past, sometimes with a laboured step.
"Now, the Jed are very different. They seek power too, but why?"
He takes it sometimes.
"Yes," he says. "They understand how power is a means to an end, and hence they have purpose. Their purpose may be absurd and unachievable, but they do at least have some actual point in being, which put them a step ahead of the Sith. But they have a problem, Gallagher, and that is to do with power also."
"Well, the Jedi are capable of taking much more power than they have, which would enable them to achieve far more than they do. But what they want to be, involves being the sort of people who do nott ake too much power- they feel they have no right to it. Therefore, the jedi deliberately refuse power to avoid the issue. That sometimes served them well. But now and until their demise, it will serve them very badly."
You have arrived at what seems to be a small hotel.
"And it is why your Jedi friends cannot succeed here. It's also the conundrum that will frustrate Andro until the end of his days. He faces failure on boith sides- he cannot succeed unless he empowers himself, yet if he empowers himself, he fails."
"The willingness to do anything does not necessarily give you the capacity to achieve it. The Sith never became the threat they did just because they had no moral lmitations- all that did was turn their potential into evil.
"No, what is the means by which they became so feared- the deadly weapon iof the Dark Side that the Sith used so well?"