Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Their is one thing not really being taken into account here.Vader's strength and mass.
Combine his great size and strength, along with the amping abilities of the Force, by blocking Vader's blows he will be continuously driven back.
He was able to drive Luke back in ESB with one hand.
He defeated Obi Wan, one of the best duelists in the Order, although Obi Wan was likely out of practice I admit.
Vader is a master duelist, even by Jedi standards, although his agility and athletism suffered when he lost his limbs.
Vader wins IMO.
Vadar may have have augmented strength but i doubt that his strength is much greater than an Orakei's. Aragorn became a master warrior in a land where Humans are amongst the weakest beings.
I doubt that strength would have much to do in a battle against Aragorn and Vadar. With Vadar unable to use any of his sith powers i think this battle comes down to swordsmanship, endurance and agility. We can argue all day about Vadar's pre-cog capabilities but from what i've seen in the trilogies this has never been properly explained. I believe it is to vague to implement as an advantage for Vadar. The only concrete examples of pre-cog ability that i have seen in the MOVIE'S, is sensing emotions or thoughts from weak minds.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Not sure what movie you watched. Obi Wan defeated Anakin, by better tactical planning...he didn't whoop his ass in a second.And he's not the best, but "one of the".
Yeah, i was just making a point. In the movie's we are told that Mace Windu and Yoda are the most renowned saber duelists. Obi Wan is a typical Jedi master, yet he was able to fight Anakin to a stalmate and ultimately beat Anakin by exploiting such an obvious weakness.
We really need to stop using the death of OBi Wan scene, in ANH as evidence to reinforce Vadars badassness. Firstly, that scene is so poorly executed it can be interpreted in several different ways. Also, Obi-Wan was far from his prime. He hadn't touched a lightsaber for over twenty years.
Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Except that the Witch-King is a fallible character and is also arrogant. Shall we assume that any bad guy that says "haha. No one can stop me now" is, in fact, unstoppable? What we saw was that Merry stabbed him with a knife and he got ****ed up instantly. He was on his knees and everything.So even if he wasn't killed, he was crippled.
Never said he couldn't be hurt, just that "no man can kil him". Sorry, playing by the rules, ergo, Vader couldn't kill him.
I think Gandalf said it and he was (visibly) scared of him and Gandalf is a total badass who felled a Balrog. Witch-king also said it himself, right before he was slain by a woman.
Just playing by the forum rules, ergo Vader can't kill the Lord of the Nazgul. You and the two darkies will just have to deal with it.
Originally posted by RobtardNah, you wrong. Back to Aragorn now.
I think Gandalf said it and he was (visibly) scared of him and Gandalf is a total badass who felled a Balrog. Witch-king also said it himself, right before he was slain by a woman.Just playing by the forum rules, ergo Vader can't kill the Lord of the Nazgul. You and the two darkies will just have to deal with it.
Originally posted by Robtard
It's killing you that you can't prove I'm wrong, I know. 'Witch-king of Angmar', even sounds more badass than 'Darth Vader.'
Well, the mere fact that you can't prove that he is invincible to men, should be enough, really. And no, not even the cool Gandalf saying it, makes it true.
Originally posted by Robtard
But yeah, Aragorn would defeat a ROTJ Vader who couldn't use the Force outside of himself.
Nah, Vader still is faster and a better duelist and has the force boosing him.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, the mere fact that you can't prove that he is invincible to men, should be enough, really. And no, not even the cool Gandalf saying it, makes it true.Nah, Vader still is faster and a better duelist and has the force boosing him.
Gandalf (the badass he is) who stood alone up to a Balrog and eventually defeated it was scared of the Witch-king, do you think he said "no man can kill him" while soiling himself just for shits and giggles? It was said by more than one person and subsequent actions proved that it was indeed true. Sorry, playing by the forum rules, just accept it.
From what is seen in ROTJ, he isn't all that fast and his attacks aren't really that amazing. Anakin/Vader (pre injury) in the prequels seems a far more impressive fighter, he could beat Aragorn.
I'm fairly sure the Witch King actually cannot be killed by any man. Merry's a hobbit, who was wielding a blade of the Westernesse, so it did more damage, and he was eventually killed by Eowyn - a woman. The fact is that it was not only said by the Witch King himself, but also by other characters in the film.
Though this is all pretty irrelevant, seeing as Aragorn did not at any time kill the Witch King. Unless of course, this isn't a a fight to the death, but a game of cat and mouse.
Originally posted by Robtard
Gandalf (the badass he is) who stood alone up to a Balrog and eventually defeated it was scared of the Witch-king, do you think he said "no man can kill him" while soiling himself just for shits and giggles? It was said by more than one person and subsequent actions proved that it was indeed true. Sorry, playing by the forum rules, just accept it.
But it's not going by the forum rules. Just because it is said doesn't make it true. Nothing in the movie we saw would suggest that a Witch King that has been sliced into thousand different pieces and buried at different places would survive. Besides, Vader would still beat him regardless.
Originally posted by Robtard
From what is seen in ROTJ, he isn't all that fast and his attacks aren't really that amazing. Anakin/Vader (pre injury) in the prequels seems a far more impressive fighter.
He was a more impressive fighter, but that doesn't mean that Aragorn could beat Vader, even from what we have seen in ROTJ I'd say he'd beat Aragorn from the movies and that wasn't even Vader at his best.
Originally posted by Bardock42
But it's not going by the forum rules. Just because it is said doesn't make it true. Nothing in the movie we saw would suggest that a Witch King that has been sliced into thousand different pieces and buried at different places would survive. Besides, Vader would still beat him regardless.He was a more impressive fighter, but that doesn't mean that Aragorn could beat Vader, even from what we have seen in ROTJ I'd say he'd beat Aragorn from the movies and that wasn't even Vader at his best.
You're ignoring that it was also implied, when it was Eowyn (a woman) who finally killed him. Vader being a human and having a penis would disqualify him from meeting the set guidelines of the prophecy.
Aragorn is far more agile and seems that faster striker. Considering Vader is gimped in his Force abilities and his weapons greatest assest of cutting through anything is also gimped, Aragorn has the advantage, imo.
Originally posted by Robtard
You're ignoring that it was also implied, when it was Eowyn (a woman) who finally killed him.
So? That doesn't prove anything.
Originally posted by Robtard
Vader being a human and having a penis would disqualify him from meeting the set guidelines of the prophecy.
Again, that's arguable. But even if he couldn't "kill" him, he could beat him beyond good and evil.
Originally posted by Robtard
Aragorn is far more agile and seems that faster striker. Considering Vader is gimped in his Force abilities and his weapons greatest assest of cutting through anything is also gimped, Aragorn has the advantage, imo.
Vader was an excellent duellist (sabre on sabre, meaning no cutting through) and just because his style doesn't rely on fast, agile moves doesn't mean it is worse. It's just stronger and more efficient.
Originally posted by Bardock42
So? That doesn't prove anything.Again, that's arguable. But even if he couldn't "kill" him, he could beat him beyond good and evil.
Vader was an excellent duellist (sabre on sabre, meaning no cutting through) and just because his style doesn't rely on fast, agile moves doesn't mean it is worse. It's just stronger and more efficient.
So your reasoning is, it was just said for glamour, Gandalf just happened to be scared of him and a woman just happened to be the one that killed him... dude, add it all up and it relates to a prophecy of specific events having to happen. It's like arguing that Vader could pull Excaliber from the stone because he's really strong and has the Force; prophecy would trump his badassness there too.
Yeah, Vader could give him a good trouncing, but that's beside my original point.
I've no doubt, but when you compared (ROTJ) Vader's saber/sword wielding skills to Aragorn's in the trilogy, Aragorn is far more impressive. This is also a gimped Vader.
Originally posted by Robtard
So your reasoning is, it was just said for glamour, Gandalf just happened to be scared of him and a woman just happened to be the one that killed him... dude, add it all up and it relates to a prophecy of specific events having to happen. It's like arguing that Vader could pull Excaliber from the stone because he's really strong and has the Force; prophecy would trump his badassness there too.
If you accept that it is a prophecy and not an innate skill then that doesn't include Vader. It just means that in their universe he will not be killed by a man, but Vader wasn't part of this prophecy so, in their fight Vader could kill him. And again, as I said, it's not only about killing him. Vader could, without a doubt, beat him in a fight even if he was unable to kill him (which is not a skill that the Witch King had, just a fact that had been prophesized in the LOTR world)
Originally posted by Robtard
Yeah, Vader could give him a good trouncing, but that's beside my original point.
Well, he could beat him. That's what Jaxx said, isn't it?
Originally posted by Robtard
I've no doubt, but when you compared (ROTJ) Vader's saber/sword wielding skills to Aragorn's in the trilogy, Aragorn is far more impressive. This is also a gimped Vader.
Yeah but not gimped in the way he was gimped in ROTJ. And I guess it's more impressive, but the point is that Vader doesn't go for jumping around and be all flashy, he's just effective.
Originally posted by Bardock42
If you accept that it is a prophecy and not an innate skill then that doesn't include Vader. It just means that in their universe he will not be killed by a man, but Vader wasn't part of this prophecy so, in their fight Vader could kill him. And again, as I said, it's not only about killing him. Vader could, without a doubt, beat him in a fight even if he was unable to kill him (which is not a skill that the Witch King had, just a fact that had been prophesized in the LOTR world)Well, he could beat him. That's what Jaxx said, isn't it?
Yeah but not gimped in the way he was gimped in ROTJ. And I guess it's more impressive, but the point is that Vader doesn't go for jumping around and be all flashy, he's just effective.
In a versus fight, it would logically transfer over and Vader's manhood would factor in. Otherwise we could argue that since the Witch-king isn't part of the SW universe, the Force will not work on him.
He said "Vader could crush anyone in the LOTR."
I'm not saying Aragorn would win in style points. I'm saying his agility and speed could take down a gimped Vader.
Originally posted by Robtard
In a versus fight, it would logically transfer over and Vader's manhood would factor in. Otherwise we could argue that since the Witch-king isn't part of the SW universe, the Force will not work on him.
That's ridiculous. Otherwise Arthur Dent could not be killed by Sidious, Gandalf and Batman.
Originally posted by Robtard
He said "Vader could crush anyone in the LOTR."
Hmm, I kinda disagree with that....he could crush the Witch King though.
Originally posted by Robtard
I'm not saying Aragorn would win in style points. I'm saying his agility and speed could take down a gimped Vader.
As I said before wouldn't know what to base it on taking just the movies...Vader hasn't been tested in a way to argue that. Taking EU into account....nah, totally not.
Originally posted by Bardock42
That's ridiculous. Otherwise Arthur Dent could not be killed by Sidious, Gandalf and Batman.Hmm, I kinda disagree with that....he could crush the Witch King though.
As I said before wouldn't know what to base it on taking just the movies...Vader hasn't been tested in a way to argue that. Taking EU into account....nah, totally not.
Just as rediculous as you saying Vader's manhood wouldn't be factored into the prophecy, see?
Wait, he said "EU Vader" more specifically. If by "crush" you mean, crush his helmet, then yes, he just couldn't kill the Witch-king.
I believe he specified ROTJ Vader, meaning Vader is capable of doing what he did in that movie, with pre-set gimps in place.