Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And what exactly does me arguing that Vaders lightsaber can cut through anything, therefore it should be able to cut through a steel sword have to do with his argument? Hmm?Thats right, NOTHING.
I am gonna love your response to this, should be very......well, full of bullshit.
It's a stupid point. You accept that his offensive force powers get taken away, but argue about the lightsabre. Childish and inconsistent.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
So I would guess the average Uruk is at least as strong as the strongest human.While that is true, on the other hand, doing what you are suggesting will make some just start speculating out of their asses to the point that the actual debate is so off track and nonsensical it might as well not exist.
True enough, however in vs. matches(at least from my experience) such prophecies tend to be ignored for the sake of the vs. thread. For instance, let's just say it was prophecised that Frodo was the one who would kill Sauron(or disembody, whatever), said prophecy would be ignored for the sake of the vs. thread. Also, one must also wonder the creator of said prophecies, if it was the Valar for instance, then their prophecy could be overuled by a more powerful character in a vs. thread, like make it Galactus vs. Sauron, and the Valar made a prophecy that only Frodo could kill him(not saying this actually happened, just an example), Galactus, who is much more powerful than the Valar, would be able to overule their prophecy.
...But now I am starting to ramble haha.
I was never suggesting that such a thing should be taken fully into account in a versus match, it would be impossible.
The point about prophecies is pretty much null, because as I've said it depends where this fight happens. Within Middle Earth, everything is bound by fate, it would seem. So a prophecy from a trustworthy a notable character such as Glorfindel, would be directly related to what can and cannot happen. So him saying that the Witch King shall not fall by the hand of man, pretty much means that it is not his fate to die by the hand of man, so he won't, no matter who it is.
Originally posted by chillmeistergenThat's incorrect though. Since a fight with Vader would be a hypothetical. If Vader wins the Witch King would die by the hand of a man, if the Witch King wins Vader won't bring balance to the force. Either way a prophecy is broken, but since it is hypothetical that shouldn't matter. The Witch King was prophecised not to die by the hand of a man, not because he couldn't, but because he, in fact, didn't.
I was never suggesting that such a thing should be taken fully into account in a versus match, it would be impossible.The point about prophecies is pretty much null, because as I've said it depends where this fight happens. Within Middle Earth, everything is bound by fate, it would seem. So a prophecy from a trustworthy a notable character such as Glorfindel, would be directly related to what can and cannot happen. So him saying that the Witch King shall not fall by the hand of man, pretty much means that it is not his fate to die by the hand of man, so he won't, no matter who it is.
Originally posted by Bardock42
That's incorrect though. Since a fight with Vader would be a hypothetical. If Vader wins the Witch King would die by the hand of a man, if the Witch King wins Vader won't bring balance to the force. Either way a prophecy is broken, but since it is hypothetical that shouldn't matter. The Witch King was prophecised not to die by the hand of a man, not because he couldn't, but because he, in fact, didn't.
Yes, but that prophecy is somewhat of a binding contract. If the fate of Middle Earth deemed that the Witch King would not die by the hand of man, that fate could not be changed (within Middle Earth).
But yes, I see your point about it being hypothetical. Presumably, as I've said - this prophecy breaking would be dependant on where the fight would take place.
Originally posted by chillmeistergenWell, as I unerstand it, a prophecy (in LOTR) is a revelation of how the future timeline will happen. It's kinda no different to us knowing how Vader dies, just that it was stated within the work of fiction.
Yes, but that prophecy is somewhat of a binding contract. If the fate of Middle Earth deemed that the Witch King would not die by the hand of man, that fate could not be changed (within Middle Earth).But yes, I see your point about it being hypothetical. Presumably, as I've said - this prophecy breaking would be dependant on where the fight would take place.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, as I unerstand it, a prophecy (in LOTR) is a revelation of how the future timeline will happen. It's kinda no different to us knowing how Vader dies, just that it was stated within the work of fiction.
If in Star Wars, that prophecy is not a breakable thing, that would be correct.
This prophecy (Glorfindel's) is a bit complicated, though. As Glorfindel isn't just some elf that gets mentioned in the book and film; Glorfindel was sent back from Valinor by the Valar, and thus is sort of a divine figure. The idea of fate in Middle Earth is much like the idea of fate in Christianity, I think. So Glorfindel having prophesied that the Witch king will not die by the hand of man, it means that he cannot, because that is not what fate intended; if this is similar to the way the system works in Star Wars, then forgive me, I really don't know very much about it.
But yeah, in my opinion - if Vader was to fight the Witch King in Star Wars world (whatever that may be called), he would completely dominate the Witch King. Whereas if Vader was to fight the Witch King in Middle Earth, it would be a different story.
For these fights to exist, it should be taken into account that both characters are fighting in a neutral area where they get their powers, abilities etc to their full potential (unless specifically gimped by the thread starter).
Edit: But honestly, I brought in the Witch-king and his prophecy clause as more of a joke to counter the "Vader will crush anyone in LOTR" comment.
Originally posted by Bardock42I ask again, what does this have to do with what you said earlier? What does this have to do with someone agreeing with me on something? Hmm?
It's a stupid point. You accept that his offensive force powers get taken away, but argue about the lightsabre. Childish and inconsistent.
Originally posted by Rogue JediShh now, clown.
You started the off topic posting, I am merely returning the favor.
Originally posted by Robtard
For these fights to exist, it should be taken into account that both characters are fighting in a neutral area where they get their powers, abilities etc to their full potential (unless specifically gimped by the thread starter).Edit: But honestly, I brought in the Witch-king and his prophecy clause as more of a joke to counter the "Vader will crush anyone in LOTR" comment.
That doesn't help us with whether the prophecy is a skill or...a prophecy though.
Anyways, I still say there was too little on screen to judge either way.
Firstly, God I look like a nerd in this thread.
Secondly, Aragorn would probably lose against Vader. But then, they're massively different characters to pit up against each other, which can sometimes work - but with LOTR, for anyone to win against pretty much anyone from Star Wars, you'd have to appreciate the power of suggestion (which is pretty impossible in a versus match).
Originally posted by chillmeistergenNerd.
Firstly, God I look like a nerd in this thread.Secondly, Aragorn would probably lose against Vader. But then, they're massively different characters to pit up against each other, which can sometimes work - but with LOTR, for anyone to win against pretty much anyone from Star Wars, you'd have to appreciate the power of suggestion (which is pretty impossible in a versus match).