Originally posted by Null ARC AvisOh, so the shit hasn't started yet, huh?
the region is already a breeding ground for terrorists. If we pull out, it will go unchecked. then shit will REALLY happen.
We have to finish the job, one way or another. and we are making progress. More benchmarks have been met than ever before. Soon, hopefully, the Iraqi police and millitary will be able to "take control" of the situation (poor bastards).That's Obama's strategy, not McCain's. He wants to steadily pull Americans out so that Iraqis can defend themselves. McCain wants to sit there and eradicate all threats.
Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
the region is already a breeding ground for terrorists. If we pull out, it will go unchecked. then shit will REALLY happen.
We have to finish the job, one way or another. and we are making progress. More benchmarks have been met than ever before. Soon, hopefully, the Iraqi police and millitary will be able to "take control" of the situation (poor bastards).
yes, we are. It does not change that this was a totally and completely useless action that was handled horribly
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Except when you're the one it's happening to. As a student of warfare, you should know how inglorious it is.
Think of me as Revan or Palpatine. I can see the bigger picture.
Do you know how many people have died due to war in human history? And if they hadn't, how overpopulated and strained Earth's resources would be?
I believe everything happens for a reason. And war in general is for the greater good and the continued survival of mankind upon a world that has finite resources. Now, some wars are stupid, boneheaded, whatever you want to call them. In fact, most wars have no real excuse or justification for them. Nevertheless, they happen. They won't stop happening. It is inevitable. It should be tolerable.
I deal with it. No use bitching over something that is unavoidable. If it wasn't Iraq, it would have been Iran, or Pakistan, or Syria. And to think that someone who seeks to avoid war at all costs is 'enlightened' is foolish, especially in a global arena where your values don't match 70% of the rest of the world. Middle Eastern countries, for example, respect a leader who rules through fear and violence. See the British campaigns in Afghanistan during the 1800's for further example of this.
Originally posted by Faunus
As human beings with the capability for higher thought, we should damn well be able to come up with better solutions than blowing everyone to pieces.
I agree. I would like to be an idealist. Unfortunately, the majority of countries adhere to a more archaic view of "might makes right."
Shit has started, just it will get worse. and you cannot eliminate all threats. that would mean wiping out Islam, which can be done, but over the course of the next few (hopefully) decades as reason starts to prevail throught the world (i hope) because as long as Islam is the religion in Iraq, there will always be a well stocked supply of curruptable potential jihadists. So, yeah, i agree with Obama there.
Edit: Damn this moves fast! this was to faunus' post.
Originally posted by EnyalusNot nearly enough to justify its existence. I've gone down this road of thought as well, but war is not an effective population cap, because it doesn't hit the most densely populated places on the planet (India - Ganga River, China - anywhere).
Think of me as Revan or Palpatine. I can see the bigger picture.Do you know how many people have died due to war in human history? And if they hadn't, how overpopulated and strained Earth's resources would be?
I believe everything happens for a reason. And war in general is for the greater good and the continued survival of mankind upon a world that has finite resources. Now, some wars are stupid, boneheaded, whatever you want to call them. In fact, most wars have no real excuse or justification for them. Nevertheless, they happen. They won't stop happening. It is inevitable. It should be tolerable.Why should something that serves no purpose, devastates the landscape, and is completely avoidable be tolerable?
I deal with it. No use bitching over something that is unavoidable. If it wasn't Iraq, it would have been Iran, or Pakistan, or Syria. And to think that someone who seeks to avoid war at all costs is 'enlightened' is foolish, especially in a global arena where your values don't match 70% of the rest of the world. Middle Eastern countries, for example, respect a leader who rules through fear and violence. See the British campaigns in Afghanistan during the 1800's for further example of this.Which is exactly why we should've kept Hussein around and taken down Bin Laden and the Taliban first.
Originally posted by Null ARC AvisWhich is, again, what McCain wants.
Shit has started, just it will get worse. and you cannot eliminate all threats.
that would mean wiping out Islam, which can be done, but over the course of the next few (hopefully) decades as reason starts to prevail throught the world (i hope) because as long as Islam is the religion in Iraq, there will always be a well stocked supply of curruptable potential jihadists....
You cannot ever wipe out an idea, especially one that half a billion people subscribe to. And that wouldn't even be an answer, because Islam doesn't preach violence in the name of God. The .00001% of Muslims who follow the radical, politically-motivated terrorist sects are the ones we need to defend against. The rest are victims, and they're finally realizing it.
So, yeah, i agree with Obama there.What exactly do you disagree with him on?
Originally posted by Faunus
Which is exactly why we should've kept Hussein around and taken down Bin Laden and the Taliban first.
Yes, I completely agree. Actually, I had an entire plan which would have screwed all of America's enemies within 5 years, without America having to lift much of a finger at all. If you'd care to hear it sometime, I'd be more than happy to share.
Originally posted by Faunus
Which is, again, what McCain wants....
You cannot ever wipe out an idea, especially one that half a billion people subscribe to. And that wouldn't even be an answer, because Islam doesn't preach violence in the name of God. The .00001% of Muslims who follow the radical, politically-motivated terrorist sects are the ones we need to defend against. The rest are victims, and they're finally realizing it.
What exactly do you disagree with him on?
You can wipe out an idea. Who believes in Zeus anymore? And Islam is technically a religion of violence, not peace, by the very substance of the Koran. Muslim scholars say that the latter parts of the koran are more canical than the earlier parts because they were written later in Muhammids life (or something like that) and the latter parts are FILLED with violence. But yes, a very small percetage of the populace are extremists. But as long as the BASE RELIGION is violent, new "myrters" can always be found.
Originally posted by EnyalusPM me as well. sounds like something interesting
Yes, I completely agree. Actually, I had an entire plan which would have screwed all of America's enemies within 5 years, without America having to lift much of a finger at all. If you'd care to hear it sometime, I'd be more than happy to share.
Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
You can wipe out an idea. Who believes in Zeus anymore?
That wasn't "wiped out" I'm pretty sure. It just died on it's own, and it's blievers weren't nearly as large as Islam
s half a billion believers.
And Islam is technically a religion of violence, not peace, by the very substance of the Koran. Muslim scholars say that the latter parts of the koran are more canical than the earlier parts because they were written later in Muhammids life (or something like that) and the latter parts are FILLED with violence.
You don't actually know very much about Islam, do you? Teh bible is filled with violence as well.
But yes, a very small percetage of the populace are extremists. But as long as the BASE RELIGION is violent, new "myrters" can always be found.
Christianity is violent as well, and also happens to be the nation's primary religious branch.
Originally posted by Null ARC AvisPeople who believe in Zeus. They're out there.
You can wipe out an idea. Who believes in Zeus anymore?
And Islam is technically a religion of violence, not peace, by the very substance of the Koran. Muslim scholars say that the latter parts of the koran are more canical than the earlier parts because they were written later in Muhammids life (or something like that) and the latter parts are FILLED with violence. But yes, a very small percetage of the populace are extremists. But as long as the BASE RELIGION is violent, new "myrters" can always be found.
As far as violence in the sense of the use of unjust force against the rights of others and laws is concerned, Islam stands totally opposed to it. Rights of human beings are defined by Islamic Law and are protected by this Law which embraces not only Muslims but also followers of other religions who are considered as 'People of the Book (ahl al-kitab)'. If there is nevertheless violation in Islamic society, it is due not to the teachings of Islam but the imperfection of the human recipients of the Divine Message.
Islam according to terrorists is a twisted and corrupted version of what the Quran preaches, make no mistake.
Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
The Quran is filled with violent passeges, make no mistake. Like any other "holy" book.
Correct. In Saudi Arabia, women are raped in the street while police officers stand by, simply because they aren't "fully covered." I could cite many, many more examples - anything regarding Darfur, for example - but I won't.
Anyone arguing that modern Christianity is just as violent as modern Islam is an uniformed fool.
Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
did i ever say anything about christianity? NO! i know its violent, most, probably all (not to sure about far asian ones) are violent. But there is no war with christian extremists at the moment. So the extremists of the day are Muslim.
You didn't, but my point still stands. Both religions have resulted in holy wars and
forget it. I'm not going to bother. I'm becoming irritated.