Originally posted by Null ARC AvisConsidering that you're arguing the basic tenets of Islam are founded on violence:
which religion has had more recent holy wars?
But as long as the BASE RELIGION is violent,I definitely wouldn't advise bringing up the subject of Holy Wars, or forced conversion, or anything else related to the problems caused by misuse of power in Christian regions.
Originally posted by Faunus
Considering that you're arguing the basic tenets of Islam are founded on violence:
I definitely wouldn't advise bringing up the subject of Holy Wars, or forced conversion, or anything else related to the problems caused by misuse of power in Christian regions.
Very true. During the Third Crusade, Christian crusaders stormed several towns (Acre included, population of 30,000), slaughtered all the men, raped and killed the women, raped - cooked - and ate the children. All of them. Entire towns, depopulated.
The Fourth Crusade, which pitted Catholicism against Greek Orthodoxy, saw Christians killing Christians on a regular basis and other unspeakable war crimes I'd have fun reciting.
EDIT: See, this is much more fun than the Obama/McCain trash.
Originally posted by EnyalusAnd jihad as defined by the Qu'ran is a struggle to improve oneself or one's community. It's supposed to be a personal and communal struggle against imperfection and fault, not an excuse to murder thousands of people.
As defined by its recreator, Saladin, Jihad by its very definition is a holy war against infidels for the glory of Islam and Muhammad.I'm the Gideon of historical warfare. Don't **** with my sources.
And Saladin was a man leading his people to war, yet he still refrained almost entirely from allowing the maiming or execution of those he defeated. Compare that to the examples of Christian "chivalry."
Originally posted by Faunus
And jihad as defined by the Qu'ran is a struggle to improve oneself or one's community. It's supposed to be a personal and communal struggle against imperfection and fault, not an excuse to murder thousands of people.And Saladin was a man leading his people to war, yet he still refrained almost entirely from allowing the maiming or execution of those he defeated. Compare that to the examples of Christian "chivalry."
No doubt, Saladin was da Sunni. (Get it, instead of 'da shiite'? Funny, right?) "Kings do not kill kings." Amazing ethics.
I stated that modern Islam was more violent than modern Christianity, which is true. I never supported the 'base religion' argument Null initially made.
Anywho, Islamic terrorists define Jihad in the manner Saladin defined it, not the way the Qu'ran does. I like some of the Qu'ran - although the majority of it is insanely boring.
My argument was purely against Avis's claim that Islam was, at its core, a violent religion. And even with Saladin's definition of jihad taken into account, they're perverting the meaning of their faith and completely ignoring what Saladin himself valued. Ergo, they're hypocrites, and the Muslim faith itself is not responsible for their actions.
But yeah, Islamic extremists are definitely exponentially more numerous and dangerous than Christian ones, although Christians nowadays tend to express their extremism in ways that don't entail suicide.
I said taht if the religion itself is violent, there will always be extremists. there are christian extremists blowiing up abortion clinics. But there is currently a holy war going on between Muslim extemists against the west. That means that unless the root of the problem is eliminated, there will always be violence in the region.
Originally posted by Null ARC AvisYeah, and the root of the problem isn't Islam. That's the point I'm making. Islam is not based on violence, there're a few people who pervert it to fit their goals. They are the problem, not the religion, and to suggest otherwise is absurd.
I said taht if the religion itself is violent, there will always be extremists. there are christian extremists blowiing up abortion clinics. But there is currently a holy war going on between Muslim extemists against the west. That means that unless the root of the problem is eliminated, there will always be violence in the region.
Originally posted by Faunus
Yeah, and the root of the problem isn't Islam. That's the point I'm making. Islam is not based on violence, there're a few people who pervert it to fit their goals. They are the problem, not the religion, and to suggest otherwise is absurd.
Besides this, Islam believes there are three races created by God (as opposed to Christianity's two): Humans, Angels, and Genies.
And Satan is a genie in Islam. Which makes Islam automatically cooler than Christianity. Which means Islam wins the debate.
My logic is impeccable.
JESUS.
I mean, c'mon, I leave for a few hours and THIS is what happens? Pfft.
In any case, I'm for Barack Obama. I hate the conservative value. And I mean, SERIOUSLY, John McCane is the god of conservatism taken human form. After Bush, America needs a change, and John McCane won't bring it. Barack Obama will be.
'Sides, it will be awesome to have a black prez.