Magus Soul Sucks Thanos... · Comic Book 'Versus' Forum

Badabing Gym rat

Originally posted by The Great Galen
This whole time I was being called the baiter and now look whos joined in...funny.

🤨 Who are you talking about now?

quanchi112 Disney

Originally posted by darthgoober
Not polar opposite, just opposing causes. See Magus didn't believe that he was or try to act "Good" because he saw beyond the confines of the concept. His time with the Inbetweener was spent learning that good and evil are different sides of the same coin and therefor equally necessary. He had a neutral attitude and acted to save life because his powers were increased when he had worshippers and more worshippers meant more power. Thanos at the time on the other hand, REVELED in being evil and acted that way whenever possible.
You're reading to much into his not using it. You yourself said that it would be out of character for the Magus to Soul Suck Thanos because of the potential repercussions of Thanos's dark personality right? Well THAT'S why he didn't do it, it was out of character for him. It doesn't mean that it wouldn't be successful. I've never said that it was a tactic we'd likely see in a fight between the two, in fact I accounted for the after effects of Thanos's dark personality in my first post...
I've never contended that Magus definitely COULD drain Thanos(though I did say it was likely), I just pointed out the faulty logic of this statement...
Which completely ignores this line of reasoning...
Dude... that's what I just said. I think you got lost in the fluctuating argument. Or maybe I'm too high to say it right...

Magus was the champion of life while he viewed Thanos as the champion of death. So, in his mind they were defined in a weird sort of way by their causes. Magus being the champion of life wouldnt absorb the champion of death into his personality. Especially due to the fact that Thanos' willpower is so damn strong.

I dont recall you ever answering my question. Which character has Warlock absorbed with the strongest willpower?

I see how you dont like that line of logic,but its entirely different as it changes the character forever which is different than using most other abilities such as bfr,godblast,etc.

Ok the magus that warlock faced in infinity war was different than this one. So,maybe we shouldnt be talking about him.

I was just saying that I dont think the Magus would even try this but if he did we dont know if he could fully achieve this against Thanos. I think he would come up short.

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by quanchi112
Magus was the champion of life while he viewed Thanos as the champion of death. So, in his mind they were defined in a weird sort of way by their causes. Magus being the champion of life wouldnt absorb the champion of death into his personality. Especially due to the fact that Thanos' willpower is so damn strong.

That's different than being polar opposites though.

And his not doing so because of Thanos's willpower was never stated(making it speculation).

Originally posted by quanchi112
I dont recall you ever answering my question. Which character has Warlock absorbed with the strongest willpower?

I never answered because it's irrelevant. Surfer didn't resist through willpower and there's never been anything to suggest the tactic can be resisted through it. Now if Thanos had a feat of resisting something similar through willpower then you might have a point because there would be some basis for the notion, but at present no such basis exist.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I see how you dont like that line of logic,but its entirely different as it changes the character forever which is different than using most other abilities such as bfr,godblast,etc.

It's speculation that's unfounded by proof of any kind.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Ok the magus that warlock faced in infinity war was different than this one. So,maybe we shouldnt be talking about him.

Ok.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I was just saying that I dont think the Magus would even try this but if he did we dont know if he could fully achieve this against Thanos. I think he would come up short.

And I disagree due to a lack of proof on Thanos's part. Using Surfer's feat without anything at least vaguely similar from Thanos is ABC logic at BEST.

quanchi112 Disney

Originally posted by darthgoober
That's different than being polar opposites though.
And his not doing so because of Thanos's willpower was never stated(making it speculation).
I never answered because it's irrelevant. Surfer didn't resist through willpower and there's never been anything to suggest the tactic can be resisted through it. Now if Thanos had a feat of resisting something similar through willpower then you might have a point because there would be some basis for the notion, but at present no such basis exist.
It's supposition that's unfounded by proof of any kind.
Ok.
And I disagree due to a lack of proof on Thanos's part. Using Surfer's feat without anything at least vaguely similar from Thanos is ABC logic at BEST.

True,but it only makes sense to feel that the stronger the will the more influence imo.

Thanos had access to Warlok and all his memories up to this point,so why wouldnt he know how to deal with the soul gem based on this?

But Thanos has personal experience with the soul gem on two occasions and had access to warlock's memories.

I also think it would be out of character for Magus to absorb Thanos when he sees himself as the champion of life who is destined to battle the champion of death,Thanos.

Mr Master Junior Member

Imo, this wouldn't work on Thanos after his first upgrade by Mistress Death.

Thanos' soul has been wrenched by the Mistress herself,
and Thanos was still able to have control of his spirit,
he was even able to use concussive blasts,
and while still in astral form, he was able to defeat Death's entire "legion of doom."

That was a badass showing for Thanos' soul state.

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by quanchi112
True,but it only makes sense to feel that the stronger the will the more influence imo.

Yes it makes sense and if it had EVER received any kind of positive confirmation I'd be inclined to agree with you. But the simple fact of the matter is that there's not. It's a really good guess and I wouldn't be at all surprised if Marvel decided to set some precedent for it sometime but until that precedent is set, it's only a guess.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thanos had access to Warlok and all his memories up to this point,so why wouldnt he know how to deal with the soul gem based on this?
But Thanos has personal experience with the soul gem on two occasions and had access to warlock's memories.

What makes you think Warlock can/knows how to resist having his Soul sucked out of him? I'm telling you, Surfer's the ONLY one to have ever done it successfully to my knowledge and he was only able to because of his history with Mephisto. To my knowledge the only times Warlock's Soul's been absorbed he went willingly and never even TRIED to resist. Of course I guess we could guess and say that he didn't try to resist it because he knew it wouldn't work... 😖hifty:

Originally posted by quanchi112
I also think it would be out of character for Magus to absorb Thanos when he sees himself as the champion of life who is destined to battle the champion of death,Thanos.

Again, it doesn't matter whether or not it's "In character" for him to do it. The stipulations of this thread dictate that for whatever reason, Magus has decided to do it. Now it's just a question of what happens next.

Mr Master Junior Member

Thanos gets his soul sucked by Mistress Death.
Thanos guides himself into Death's skull chamber, & shows obvious control of his spirit,
then, while still in spirit form, proceeds to stomp the legion of doom:

... continues in the next post ...

Mr Master Junior Member

Red Hulk Dead

Originally posted by Mr Master

... continues in the next post ...

I've read this comic a couple times before, but I never noticed that Thanos took an axe hit to no effect... 🙂

quanchi112 Disney

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes it makes sense and if it had EVER received any kind of positive confirmation I'd be inclined to agree with you. But the simple fact of the matter is that there's not. It's a really good guess and I wouldn't be at all surprised if Marvel decided to set some precedent for it sometime but until that precedent is set, it's only a guess.
What makes you think Warlock can/knows how to resist having his Soul sucked out of him? I'm telling you, Surfer's the ONLY one to have ever done it successfully to my knowledge and he was only able to because of his history with Mephisto. To my knowledge the only times Warlock's Soul's been absorbed he went willingly and never even TRIED to resist. Of course I guess we could guess and say that he didn't try to resist it because he knew it wouldn't work... 😖hifty:
Again, it doesn't matter whether or not it's "In character" for him to do it. The stipulations of this thread dictate that for whatever reason, Magus has decided to do it. Now it's just a question of what happens next.

Yes,the point is we dont know one way or another but the evidence leads me to believe it wouldnt work on Thanos especially due to his knowledge on the soul gem and the ig for that matter.

Uhm, Warlock has been with the soul gem and been inside soul world for a long time. he also had in his possession the ig so why wouldnt he know? It makes no sense that he couldnt defend himself against such an attack while he himself defeated meph in his own realm with the soul gem. And also the fact that warlock knows the soul gem better than anyone.

Ok,so Magus tries and fails imo based on Thanos knowledge of Warlock's memories and his personal experience with the soul gem.

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by Mr Master
Imo, this wouldn't work on Thanos after his first upgrade by Mistress Death.
Thanos' soul has been wrenched by the Mistress herself,
and Thanos was still able to have control of his spirit,
he was even able to use concussive blasts,
and while still in astral form, he was able to defeat Death's entire "legion of doom."
That was a badass showing for Thanos' soul state.

And that's an impressive feat, but it still doesn't set a precedent for Thanos actually resisting the tactic IMO.

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes,the point is we dont know one way or another but the evidence leads me to believe it wouldnt work on Thanos especially due to his knowledge on the soul gem and the ig for that matter.

What evidence? What feat has Thanos accomplished that in anyway suggest he can resist having his soul ripped out of his body?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Uhm, Warlock has been with the soul gem and been inside soul world for a long time. he also had in his possession the ig so why wouldnt he know? It makes no sense that he couldnt defend himself against such an attack while he himself defeated meph in his own realm with the soul gem. And also the fact that warlock knows the soul gem better than anyone.

You're asking for proof of a negative(proof that Warlock won't be able to resist). I hold all characters to the same standard, and that standard is they have to do it or something similar to be credited with the feat. We don't know how his battle with Mephisto ended and I'm not going to assume Mephisto tried the tactic. Besides, that was actually a battle to see whether or not an immortal soul like that of Mephisto fell under the dominion of the Soul Gem. So it actually kinda supports my side of the case more than yours...

Originally posted by quanchi112
Ok,so Magus tries and fails imo based on Thanos knowledge of Warlock's memories and his personal experience with the soul gem.

And you're entitled to your opinion. I happen to disagree though because there's nothing in the way of evidence to support it...

quanchi112 Disney

Originally posted by darthgoober
What evidence? What feat has Thanos accomplished that in anyway suggest he can resist having his soul ripped out of his body?
You're asking for proof of a negative(proof that Warlock won't be able to resist). I hold all characters to the same standard, and that standard is they have to do it or something similar to be credited with the feat. We don't know how his battle with Mephisto ended and I'm not going to assume Mephisto tried the tactic. Besides, that was actually a battle to see whether or not an immortal soul like that of Mephisto fell under the dominion of the Soul Gem. So it actually kinda supports my side of the case more than yours...
And you're entitled to your opinion. I happen to disagree though because there's nothing in the way of evidence to support it...

How many times do I have to tell you?

What leads you to believe that Thanos would fall victim to this tactic? Im sure with warlock's knowledge about the very nature of the soul gem itself. Surfer could reject it through his experience with Meph who we have seen is far less than the might of the soul gem in his very realm. Surfer didnt need to study the soul gem at all to reject it. Thanos took in Warlock's memories themselves who is a total master of the soul gem. I really hope you arent suggesting that Surfer can resist this tactic but not Warlock.

Meph couldnt try to take anyone' soul over who possessed the soul gem. total mastery over souls overrides any jurisdiction he has.

There is nothing on panel to suggest this method would work on Thanos. Nothing at all.

Red Hulk Dead

Originally posted by Mr Master
Thanos gets his soul sucked by Mistress Death.

...

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by quanchi112
How many times do I have to tell you?
What leads you to believe that Thanos would fall victim to this tactic?

The fact that it's only been resisted once and it was by someone with superior feats to Thanos in this particular category. I'll give Thanos the nod over Surfer in most categories with no objection, but he doesn't get a free walk across the board and this is one category where he just can't touch Surfer's feats.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Im sure with warlock's knowledge about the very nature of the soul gem itself. Surfer could reject it through his experience with Meph who we have seen is far less than the might of the soul gem in his very realm. Surfer didnt need to study the soul gem at all to reject it. Thanos took in Warlock's memories themselves who is a total master of the soul gem.

The Soul Gem doesn't work like that, that line of thinking is something of a forum myth. Yes you get memories and such but things like abilities and first hand technical knowledge don't carry over. Believe me when I say, I've looked at great length because I'm a major Warlock fan.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I really hope you arent suggesting that Surfer can resist this tactic but not Warlock.

Has Surfer had several confrontations with a skyfather character trying to steal his soul? If not, then why are you suggesting that Warlock can do it just because Surfer can? That's just ABC logic at it's finest...

Originally posted by quanchi112
And again, there's never been any suggestion of things like abilities and technical knowledge carring over. Ever.
Meph couldnt try to take anyone' soul over who possessed the soul gem. total mastery over souls overrides any jurisdiction he has.

The Soul Gem doesn't grant the TOTAL mastery of souls unless it's backed by the Power Gem. If it did there never would have been any kind of contest in the first place.

Originally posted by quanchi112
There is nothing on panel to suggest this method would work on Thanos. Nothing at all.

Except that Death did it successfully to Thanos, and I believe Thanos has talked about being afraid of the tactic, and the tactic worked on a Thanosi, and the tactic's worked on everyone with the exception of Surfer who only resisted it because of past experiences that he has and that Thanos lacks...

quanchi112 Disney

Originally posted by darthgoober
The fact that it's only been resisted once and it was by someone with superior feats to Thanos in this particular category. I'll give Thanos the nod over Surfer in most categories with no objection, but he doesn't get a free walk across the board and this is one category where he just can't touch Surfer's feats.
The Soul Gem doesn't work like that, that line of thinking is something of a forum myth. Yes you get memories and such but things like abilities and first hand technical knowledge don't carry over. Believe me when I say, I've looked at great length because I'm a major Warlock fan.
Has Surfer had several confrontations with a skyfather character trying to steal his soul? If not, then why are you suggesting that Warlock can do it just because Surfer can? That's just ABC logic at it's finest...
The Soul Gem doesn't grant the TOTAL mastery of souls unless it's backed by the Power Gem. If it did there never would have been any kind of contest in the first place.
Except that Death did it successfully to Thanos, and I believe Thanos has talked about being afraid of the tactic, and the tactic worked on a Thanosi, and the tactic's worked on everyone with the exception of Surfer who only resisted it because of past experiences that he has and that Thanos lacks...

Surfer beat it due to his experience with Meph.

Why wont you answer my question. Are you saying that the Surfer could resist this tactic but Warlock would fail against the soul gem?

No,it isnt. Warlock has been linked with the soul gem for quite some time. Saying that due to Surfer's experiences with other beings trying this tactic gave him enough experience to be able to ward off this attack while Warlock the man who lived in soul world and has had this gem longer than anyone,its just plain doesnt make sense. It isnt abc logic its common sense. You have no proof it would work against Thanos or Warlock but you keep acting like you do especially considering all of the experience both of these characters have had with the soul gem. The soul gem still has more power over souls than any other being. Thats the point.

Are you really comparing a Thanosi to the real Thanos? Seriously,why?

Thanos has also had past experiences with detailed knowledge and access to Warlock's memories and the soul gem itself.

This tactic has never been attempted on Thanos and I see no reason why it would work on him. You have your opinion and I have my own.

King Kandy Senior Member

We know 100% sure that pre-ressurection Thanos would get sucked, because it was stated on panel (in the same comic where he dies.)

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by quanchi112
Surfer beat it due to his experience with Meph.
Why wont you answer my question. Are you saying that the Surfer could resist this tactic but Warlock would fail against the soul gem?

No I'm not saying that Warlock would definitely fail because for all I know the first time it's actually featured he'll pull it off. I'm saying that until he actually does it(or something similar) we can't actually credit him with the ability.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No,it isnt. Warlock has been linked with the soul gem for quite some time. Saying that due to Surfer's experiences with other beings trying this tactic gave him enough experience to be able to ward off this attack while Warlock the man who lived in soul world and has had this gem longer than anyone,its just plain doesnt make sense.

You're acting like Warlock knows everything there is to know about the Soul Gem and that's untrue. Warlock doesn't know EVERYTHING about using the Soul Gem despite his experience and because of that we can't concretely credit him with any feat that we haven't seen.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It isnt abc logic its common sense.

It IS ABC logic. When you speculate that a feat by one character that was accomplished through a specific set of circumstances can automatically be accomplished by another character that lacks at least vaguely similar circumstances, that's ABC logic.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You have no proof it would work against Thanos or Warlock but you keep acting like you do especially considering all of the experience both of these characters have had with the soul gem. The soul gem still has more power over souls than any other being. Thats the point.

I don't have to prove that it will definitely work because I'm not claiming with 100% certainty that it will, you on the other hand DO have to prove that it's within Thanos and Warlock's ability to replicate the feat despite lacking Surfer's specific set of conditions for victory...

"No Bias Claims
"Batman can beat Thor because he's cooler!" That's an example of how not to debate. We would like to see the rationale behind any claims that one character can beat the other rather than a claim based on popularity and subjective bias.
Also, we insist that all claims be backed up by evidence from canon sources. If you claim that Spiderman is stronger than Superman, then you have to prove it "

So where's the evidence from a canon source? Not speculation or supposition, actual proof that Warlock and Thanos can accomplish the feat just because Surfer can?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Are you really comparing a Thanosi to the real Thanos? Seriously,why?

Aren't you comparing Warlock to Surfer in this respect despite a lack of evidence to support it?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thanos has also had past experiences with detailed knowledge and access to Warlock's memories and the soul gem itself.

I already told you, the Soul Gem doesn't work that way(it's a forum myth). It's a good thing to because otherwise we'd have to credit Nebula with all of Warlock's spells... including the one that he used to turn Thanos into stone back in the day 😉 .

Originally posted by quanchi112
This tactic has never been attempted on Thanos and I see no reason why it would work on him. You have your opinion and I have my own.

So since Thanos never tried to mind rape, transmute, or drain the life force of the Super Skrull it must mean that he's unable to right?

quanchi112 Disney

Originally posted by darthgoober
No I'm not saying that Warlock would definitely fail because for all I know the first time it's actually featured he'll pull it off. I'm saying that until he actually does it(or something similar) we can't actually credit him with the ability.
You're acting like Warlock knows everything there is to know about the Soul Gem and that's untrue. Warlock doesn't know EVERYTHING about using the Soul Gem despite his experience and because of that we can't concretely credit him with any feat that we haven't seen.
It IS ABC logic. When you speculate that a feat by one character that was accomplished through a specific set of circumstances can automatically be accomplished by another character that lacks at least vaguely similar circumstances, that's ABC logic.
I don't have to prove that it will definitely work because I'm not claiming with 100% certainty that it will, you on the other hand DO have to prove that it's within Thanos and Warlock's ability to replicate the feat despite lacking Surfer's specific set of conditions for victory...
"No Bias Claims
"Batman can beat Thor because he's cooler!" That's an example of how not to debate. We would like to see the rationale behind any claims that one character can beat the other rather than a claim based on popularity and subjective bias.
[B]Also, we insist that all claims be backed up by evidence from canon sources. If you claim that Spiderman is stronger than Superman, then you have to prove it "
So where's the evidence from a canon source? Not speculation or supposition, actual proof that Warlock and Thanos can accomplish the feat just because Surfer can?
Aren't you comparing Warlock to Surfer in this respect despite a lack of evidence to support it?
I already told you, the Soul Gem doesn't work that way(it's a forum myth). It's a good thing to because otherwise we'd have to credit Nebula with all of Warlock's spells... including the one that he used to turn Thanos into stone back in the day 😉 .
So since Thanos never tried to mind rape, transmute, or drain the life force of the Super Skrull it must mean that he's unable to right? [/B]

We cant assume the tactic would work on Warlock just the same. Thats my point. My opinion is due to his experience and knowledge here that he could resist it just like Thanos.

Surfer didnt have to know everything about the soul gem to refute the attack so why would Warlock? His knowledge on the soul gem is 100 times greater than Surfer's and Surfer still resisted it.

Your assuming it works with no definitive proof whatsoever.

Its my opinion that it wont work based on the evidence I have provided. Its just my opinion and neither of us can prove or disprove it as it hasnt happened in a comic yet. So drop it.

Thats completely different and you know it.

Nebula never stated on panel that she had access to all of Warlock's memories and simply doesnt have the knowledge that Thanos possesses.

Thats completely different. Thanos has had the soul gem and the ig in his possession knowing the full potential of the soul gem. Its my opinion he can resist it.

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by quanchi112
We cant assume the tactic would work on Warlock just the same. Thats my point. My opinion is due to his experience and knowledge here that he could resist it just like Thanos.

But we DO automatically assume that things work until proven otherwise here on KMC. Mind raping works until a characters shows a specific resistance to it. Transmutation works unless someones shown a resistance to it. Any potential BFRing works until someone shows they can counter it. Thus, Soul Sucking works until a definite counter to it is shown. No counter, no defense.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Surfer didnt have to know everything about the soul gem to refute the attack so why would Warlock? His knowledge on the soul gem is 100 times greater than Surfer's and Surfer still resisted it.

Surfer's resisting wasn't attributed to his knowledge of the gem, it was attributed to a history of resisting similar attacks from a skyfather level character. Do either Warlock or Thanos have a history of resisting similar attacks from a skyfather level character? No? The the comparison isn't viable...

Originally posted by quanchi112
Your assuming it works with no definitive proof whatsoever.

Don't you assume that an attack from Thanos will KO/kill someone who hasn't resisted attacks on the level he can generate? I haven't seen anyone transmute Aunt May, does that mean that Thanos can't do it?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Its my opinion that it wont work based on the evidence I have provided. Its just my opinion and neither of us can prove or disprove it as it hasnt happened in a comic yet. So drop it.

You haven't provided any actual evidence beyond speculation. At all... so no. I normally stick up for you when people start comparing you to nvr and Trick because your arguments typically have more on panel support than the theories they try to pass off as absolute fact, but now your arguments drifted entirely too far into their territory for my taste and therefor needs to be addressed just as their arguments do.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thats completely different and you know it.

What's different(not sure what you're addressing here)?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Nebula never stated on panel that she had access to all of Warlock's memories and simply doesnt have the knowledge that Thanos possesses.

Warlock and Thanos have never been stated on panel as being able replicate Surfer's feat. Since Warlock's Soul was absorbed while Nebula had the Gauntlet and we're going to make leaps of logic with no on panel support then we should assume that she knows and can do everything Warlock could up until the time of the Infinity Gauntlet(including turning Thanos to stone).

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thats completely different. Thanos has had the soul gem and the ig in his possession knowing the full potential of the soul gem. Its my opinion he can resist it.

Now your jumping back and forth between arguments, and you also seem to be forgetting my actual point in this discussion. In case you've forgotten, this whole thing started because of this statement...

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thanos' will is greater than Magus' imo. There is a reason why he didnt try it in the comic to imo.

So does Thanos beating on Super Skrull rather than using tp on him mean that Super Skrull's will is greater than Thanos's, or were you using faulty logic when you made that statement?