Originally posted by bayhunter12Actually, I'm quite a connoisseur of cars. My knowledge of the intricacies in the engineering and history of the automotive is unparalleled to anyone else in the world. Sadly though, I'm not a very good driver.
revan was one of the finest sith of his time . he's knowledge of the force is far superior . even though his skills with a saber are somewhat unknown.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I never said it was a detriment. I loved the game and the character myself. But asserting his ability to defeat or combat other characters in specific conditions flies in the face of the very real fact that there are no specifics facts concerning his powers and combative abilities. We know he was powerful and skilled---but that's where it ends. It's the main problem with KoTOR, it mingles with virtually no other era in the mythos, and that means a lack of comparisons. Ergo our problem.
Let us examine the points of Leeland Chee:
"Game mechanics are designed to try to match continuity to fit the purposes of the game for which they were created. They can serve to provide a scale from which to compare how one character or piece of technology stacks up against another. Because RPGs use dice, there is always the element of random chance involved, which isn't quite applicable to a book.
But stats themselves aren't created randomly; they are based on what is already known. As such, we can always look to them as a basis when writing books. I often look to RPG stats to see for example, what type of Force powers a character may have. Or if we haven't determined the stats of a particular vehicle, we can look to RPG stats for a basis of comparison."
So you think that stats of Darth Revan revealed in the recent "Force Unleashed Compaign Guide" previews do not hold any merit and are completely irrelevant?
Authors have now begin to define Revan's powers. As pointed out by me before, Revan knows techniques: Force Drain, Force Lightning (can augment it to Force Storm), Force Grip/Choke, Force Stun, Telekinetic powers (Move objects with the Force, creating Whirlwinds etc.), and Mind Control. He is also confirmed to be "Dark Side Adept" and is gifted with special abilities such as: Battle Precognition, Farseeing, and is a great tactician.
These are the powers defined for Darth Revan and chances are that they will be used as a reference for any novels that might be written for him.
Canonical sources such as: KOTOR Compaign Guide and The New Essential Chronology confirm him to be a "powerful Jedi warrior" and also "strong in the Force." His vast strength in the Force implies that he is a powerful foe to be a reckoned with and his Force moves will be highly effective in combat scenarios.
Now of-course people want to see Revan performing all these powers but authors have made it sure that he knows the above mentioned techniques in the books.
Hence, he is not that much of an unknown after-all in the light of latest information concerning him and we now have a clue or two about his combative abilities. Some people continue to ignore these latest developments but it is they who are at fault and not me.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDFan-f*cking-tastic for Revan knowing these things. We need to know how powerful these techniques are when he uses them. His Force Drain could be absolute shit and his Lightning could make Zeus envious. We need THOSE statistics. If we go by game mechanics alone, I could claim that Revan can only jump when he leaps to attack someone and is incapable of even hopping. See how ridiculous that is? Picking and choosing like that is a no-no.
Your reply got overlooked previously, so my response comes now.Let us examine the points of Leeland Chee:
"Game mechanics are designed to try to match continuity to fit the purposes of the game for which they were created. They can serve to provide a scale from which to compare how one character or piece of technology stacks up against another. Because RPGs use dice, there is always the element of random chance involved, which isn't quite applicable to a book.
But stats themselves aren't created randomly; they are based on what is already known. As such, we can always look to them as a basis when writing books. [b]I often look to RPG stats to see for example, what type of Force powers a character may have.
Or if we haven't determined the stats of a particular vehicle, we can look to RPG stats for a basis of comparison."So you think that stats of Darth Revan revealed in the recent "Force Unleashed Compaign Guide" previews do not hold any merit and are completely irrelevant?
Authors have now begin to define Revan's powers. As pointed out by me before, Revan knows techniques: Force Drain, Force Lightning (can augment it to Force Storm), Force Grip/Choke, Force Stun, Telekinetic powers (Move objects with the Force, creating Whirlwinds etc.), and Mind Control. He is also confirmed to be "Dark Side Adept" and is gifted with special abilities such as: Battle Precognition, Farseeing, and is a great tactician.
These are the powers defined for Darth Revan and chances are that they will be used as a reference for any novels that might be written for him.
Canonical sources such as: KOTOR Compaign Guide and The New Essential Chronology confirm him to be a "powerful Jedi warrior" and also "strong in the Force." His vast strength in the Force implies that he is a powerful foe to be a reckoned with and his Force moves will be highly effective in combat scenarios.
Now of-course people want to see Revan performing all these powers but authors have made it sure that he knows the above mentioned techniques in the books.
Hence, he is not that much of an unknown after-all in the light of latest information concerning him and we now have a clue or two about his combative abilities. Some people continue to ignore these latest developments but it is they who are at fault and not me. [/B]
honestly, believe what you want, i'm sick of the argument. It is 10x worse now then when i left. sw_legend, kotor3, you are free to believe what you want. It hzs been explained why you are wrong, but if you want to keep fighting it,grand. I for one am completely done responding to threads with unknowns.
Originally posted by Wolverine2179
He still loses to starkiller though, and i mean badly.
1. Drain Force (It allows the user to drain the energies of the opponents and use them to revitalize themselves.)
2. Force Storm (Revan could unleash this technique in combat scenarios and the Lightning variant of this technique was so intense that it could discourage opponents from getting close and not to forget the considerable damage it would do. Force Storms are among the most devastating applications of the Force.)
3. Vast Telekinetic abilities (Revan has been confirmed to be strong in the Force in canon sources. He was likely capable of impressive telekinetic feats. On Dantooine, he lifted himself above and was hurling several objects around him while meditating in a room. He could also call upon the Force to surround an enemy in a swirling vortex of Force energy, which would life the opponents from the ground and prevent them from doing anything. His defensive abilities included Deflecting capability. He could even resist the effects of poisons using the Force.)
4. Wound (It allows the user to cause spasms in the lungs of target which would result in painful injuries.)
5. Slow (It allows the user to use the Force to generate heavy load on the target making it difficult for the target to maneuver.)
6. Force corruption (Causes confusion in the minds of enemies and makes them prone to more damage through applications of the Force as compared to normal circumstances.)
Revan had profound knowledge of the applications of the Force, which was enough to impress the likes of Darth Bane (a fair match for the likes of Vader and Starkiller). He knew several devastating Force applications and his attacks would be very effective in combat scenarios since he was strong in the Force too. So how is a person of considerable power loose to Starkiller and that too badly?
From what has been revealed about the known Force powers of Starkiller in the Force Unleashed Compaign Guide, I can say with confidence that his knowledge of the Force applications pales in comparison to what Revan can do. Yes! Starkiller is strong in the Force too and is a telekinetic prodigy. He killed some Jedi Masters too. Revan also killed some Sith Lords in comparison.
Originally posted by Wolverine2179
And where exactly did you get that quote? Because if thats the case shouldn't vader be more powerful than jedi master luke skywalker seeing his stats are higher?
Vader was a master of the dark side. He was about 80% of Darth Sidious and that is impressive. Luke was probably Sidious' equal but he too does not enjoys clear winning streak over his foes. Several times he have been injured in duels. He is not invincible.
All characters have certain strengths and weaknesses. Some have less weaknesses than others and try to overcome them with passage of time. Luke is among those individuals. You need to look at his Force powers and feats to gauge his superiority over Vader. In a few cases, Vader might be better than many individuals in Star Wars galaxy but that does not means that he is capable of defeating the best we have seen so far.
Don't be asking that, you're gonna be given an extremely detailed depiction of the fights between Revan and Mandalore, and Revan and Yusanis. The statistics, in-depth analysis, omniscient comparisons, and indisputable canonical evidence of these battles is sound and irrefutable. They are the opus magnums of their respective authors and writers, whose names are:
...?
Oh yeah, that's right.
Vast Telekinetic abilities (Revan has been confirmed to be strong in the Force in canon sources. He was likely capable of impressive telekinetic feats. On Dantooine, he lifted himself above and was hurling several objects around him while meditating in a room. He could also call upon the Force to surround an enemy in a swirling vortex of Force energy, which would life the opponents from the ground and prevent them from doing anything. His defensive abilities included Deflecting capability. He could even resist the effects of poisons using the Force.)(Emphasis mine)
WHAT?
Did we watch the same cutscene? The objects were moving no faster than Luke's stones on Dagobah, and were obviously much lighter. So then Luke has 'Vast Telekinetic abilities' as of ESB?
This is why people call you a fanboy.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Fan-f*cking-tastic for Revan knowing these things. We need to know how powerful these techniques are when he uses them. His Force Drain could be absolute shit and his Lightning could make Zeus envious. We need THOSE statistics. If we go by game mechanics alone, I could claim that Revan can only jump when he leaps to attack someone and is incapable of even hopping. See how ridiculous that is? Picking and choosing like that is a no-no.
You want some statistics based comparison between Revan and Starkiller? Be my guest!
Darth Revan (during Jedi Civil War)
Affinity with the Force:
Force: 8 (strong in the Force)
Dark Side Adept: 16
Known Defensive abilities:
-Ref: 36
-Fort: 35
-Will: 37
-Blocking abilities
-Deflecting abilities
-Immune to Fear effects
Raw power (Abilities):
Str: 17
Dex: 17
Con: 14
Int: 15
Wis: 18
Cha: 19
Force Mastery level: 24
Force Powers known: Drain Force, Force Lightning, Force Storm, Telekinesis, Force Whirlwind, Force Grip/Choke, Slow, Wound, Force Deception, Mind Trick, and Force corruption.
Combat Forms likely practiced:
-Juyo (as revealed in KOTOR)
-Jar Kai (as revealed in KOTOR 2)
-Martial Artist
Weapons Proficiency:
-Lightsabers (was declared to be a prodigy)
-Simple weapons
Starkiller (OT period):
Affinity with the Force:
Force: 6 (strong in the Force)
Dark Side Adept: 15
Known Defensive abilities:
-Ref: 27
-Fort: 27
-Will: 28
-Blocking abilities
-Deflecting abilities
-Repulsive capabilities
Raw Power (Abilities):
Str: 16
Dex: 13
Con: 12
Int: 10
Wis: 15
Cha: 16
Force Mastery level: 20
Force Powers known: Corruption, Force Lightning, Force Grip/Choke, Force Slam, Telekinesis, and Mind Trick.
Combat styles practiced:
-Juyo
-Soresu
Weapons Proficiency:
-Lightsabers
-Simple weapons
I am not picking and choosing here, I am pointing out the combative abilities have been attributed to these individuals by the authors.
Originally posted by Slash_KMC
I'm curious, who else besides Malak did he kill?
Now before you claim that he is nobody, read these lines from the official databank:
"There he embraced the dark side and the way of the Sith with every fiber of his being. His great strength in the Force, his natural cruelty and his absolute ruthlessness in his quest for power soon set him apart from his fellow students, and drew the calculating eye of Lord Malak himself.
n the tradition of their order, Malak sought a single pupil from among his many followers to become his chosen apprentice: one who could learn the terrible secrets of the Sith and use them to destroy the Jedi and the Republic.
Darth Bandon proved himself to be an excellent choice. Many Jedi fell beneath the blade of his lightsaber. Some in the Sith hierarchy wondered if Bandon would someday rise to challenge Malak for the mantle of Dark Lord, for that was the way of the Sith: the strong must rule, and when the apprentice surpasses the Master, the Master must fall."
More from KOTOR Compaign Guide:
"The bloodthirsty Bandon wastes no time in building a double-bladed lightsaber resembling that of Exar Kun, using it to impale a score of his former allies."
He also defeated:
-> Dark Side Juhani on Dantooine.
-> Dark Side Bastilla Shan on the Star Forge.
He has killed several other high profile fighters of his age too.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
He killed Darth Bandon also.Now before you claim that he is nobody, read these lines from the official databank:
"There he embraced the dark side and the way of the Sith with every fiber of his being. His great strength in the Force, his natural cruelty and his absolute ruthlessness in his quest for power soon set him apart from his fellow students, and drew the calculating eye of Lord Malak himself.
n the tradition of their order, Malak sought a single pupil from among his many followers to become his chosen apprentice: one who could learn the terrible secrets of the Sith and use them to destroy the Jedi and the Republic.
Darth Bandon proved himself to be an excellent choice. Many Jedi fell beneath the blade of his lightsaber. Some in the Sith hierarchy wondered if Bandon would someday rise to challenge Malak for the mantle of Dark Lord, for that was the way of the Sith: the strong must rule, and when the apprentice surpasses the Master, the Master must fall."
More from KOTOR Compaign Guide:
"The bloodthirsty Bandon wastes no time in building a double-bladed lightsaber resembling that of Exar Kun, using it to impale a score of his former allies."
He also defeated:
-> Dark Side Juhani on Dantooine.
-> Dark Side Bastilla Shan on the Star Forge.He has killed several other high profile fighters of his age too.
Again, T3 killed Bandon.
Bastila (one feat wonder) padawan and Juhani (no feat wonder) padawan were never Sith Lords.
And who were these other high profile fighters?