Revan Vs Starkiller (at his awesome prime)

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
(Emphasis mine)

WHAT?

Did we watch the same cutscene? The objects were moving no faster than Luke's stones on Dagobah, and were obviously much lighter. So then Luke has 'Vast Telekinetic abilities' as of ESB?

This is why people call you a fanboy.

And Luke's showings in ESB were not as impressive. Revan was moving several objects simultaneously while meditating and some them were larger weighed more than the "single small stone" Luke moved in Dagobah and Revan also slightly lifted himself up from the floor during the meditation process. Also, Revan was not just moving the objects around him in circular motion but the objects themselves were also spinning too.

Your ignorance is more evident in this case than my supposed fanboyism.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Again, T3 killed Bandon.

However Revan killing Bandon is canon.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Bastila (one feat wonder) padawan and Juhani (no feat wonder) padawan were never Sith Lords.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
And who were these other high profile fighters?

- Yuthura Ban's mentor
- Mandalore: The Ultimate
- Calo Nord
- Yusanis

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Which is not canon. Also the worst comment in this thread.

However Revan killing Bandon is canon.

They embraced the Dark Side though. And Bastilla Shan's powers were specially augmented by the Star Forge itself while she dueled him again.

Some of the known ones were:

- Yuthura Ban's mentor
- Mandalore The Ultimate
- Calo Nord
- Yusanis

God, you're really bad at this.

Proof that Revan killing Bandon is canon, because I think you could attack him with your entire party.

What has Bastila proven in terms of combat. She's a freakin' padawan, her one feat is battle meditation.

I poisened Yuthara Ban's mentor, plus I teamed up with Yuthara herself. Proof canon Revan didn't do that.

Calo Nord, again, proof that his party didn't help.

And yeah, Lucien said you'd mention Yusanis and Mandalore The Ultimate.

Hellz no.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
That happened when Revan was being retrained in the ways of the Jedi. Obviously his powers had just begin to refine by that time. By the time he set foot on the Star Forge, he was far more powerful.

This was the exchange:

You
Vast Telekinetic abilities (Revan has been confirmed to be strong in the Force in canon sources. He was likely capable of impressive telekinetic feats. On Dantooine, he lifted himself above and was hurling several objects around him while meditating in a room.

Me
Did we watch the same cutscene? The objects were moving no faster than Luke's stones on Dagobah, and were obviously much lighter. So then Luke has 'Vast Telekinetic abilities' as of ESB?

This is why people call you a fanboy.

you
That happened when Revan was being retrained in the ways of the Jedi. Obviously his powers had just begin to refine by that time. By the time he set foot on the Star Forge, he was far more powerful.

You made an assertion (Revan has vast Telekinetic abilities). You then supported it with an example (Revan moved several objects with telekinesis on Dantooine). I pointed out that a similar example, one at least as impressive (Luke on Dagobah) was not indicative of vast telekinetic abilities (as he was easily overwhelmed with that same power by Vader).

So the piece of evidence you supplied is not sufficient to establish 'vast telekinetic abilities.' That you attempted to hedge by claiming that Revan's power grew since he had been on Dantooine does two things: 1. It renders the piece of evidence in question both obsolete and irrelevant and 2. illustrates that your position is not so much backed by evidence as demanding of evidence. It is thus because your bias made the decision prior to any examination of fact.

And Luke's showings in ESB were not as impressive. Several objects moved by Revan were larger weighed more than the single stone Luke moved in Dagobah and Revan also slightly lifted himself up from the floor during the meditation process. Also, Revan was not just moving the objects around him in circular motion but the objects themselves were also spinning too.

Really? Luke was balancing an obviously heavy stone (based on the thud with which it hit the ground) atop another, larger stone which also required his focus as it fell when he lost his connection. Luke had the added benefit of being upside down with a senile octocentarian atop his boot. And maybe a week of training.

Your assertion that the objects were heavier? Prove it. I (and I'm tiny) can lift my swivel chair with one arm. Do you think a universe with flimsi instead of paper and durasteel instead of steel would be content with plastic?

Your ignorance is more evident in this case than my supposed fanboyism.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
God, you're really bad at this.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Proof that Revan killing Bandon is canon, because I think you could attack him with your entire party.

"As Revan grows more powerful, Darth Malak orders Darth Bandon to seek out and destroy Revan and his companions. With two dark side cronies in tow, Bandon confronts Revan but is killed by the former Sith Lord."

Source: KOTOR Compaign Guide (C-Canon material according to Leeland Chee.)

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
What has Bastila proven in terms of combat. She's a freakin' padawan, her one feat is battle meditation.

"Maybe the most heroic Jedi of her time, Bastilla Shan was a Jedi exemplar."

Despite being a Jedi consular, she constructed a double bladed lightsaber. It shows that she paid importance to her skills with lightsaber.

From behind the scenes section in the official databank:

"Armed with a double-bladed lightsaber and equipped with Force abilities available to a Jedi Sentinel, she is a good choice for close-assault combat action."

She also worked with and fought alongside Revan for a long duration during the Jedi Civil War, which would have enhanced her experience.

The fact that the Jedi Council made her part of the Jedi Strike Team which boarded Darth Revan's flagship is a testament to her capabilities as a whole and not just Battle Meditation. Jolee Bindo also recognized her strength.

By the time she embraced the dark side, she said this about her abilities: "I am more powerful than all but few Jedi Masters."

Also when she dueled Revan on the Star Forge, the superweapon directly aided her in combat by automatically replenishing her energies when necessary. So she had a big advantage in this fight but still lost to Revan.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
I poisened Yuthara Ban's mentor, plus I teamed up with Yuthara herself. Proof canon Revan didn't do that.

I will try to find some canonical information on Uthar Wynn.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Calo Nord, again, proof that his party didn't help.

"Cold, menacing, and unapproachable, Nord fears no one. Ultimately, it takes a person of equal power to defeat him, as Revan does."

Source: KOTOR Compaign Guide (C-Canon material according to Leeland Chee.)

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
And yeah, Lucien said you'd mention Yusanis and Mandalore The Ultimate.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Sure!

"As Revan grows more powerful, Darth Malak orders Darth Bandon to seek out and destroy Revan and his companions. With two dark side cronies in tow, Bandon confronts Revan but is killed by the former Sith Lord."

Source: KOTOR Compaign Guide (C-Canon material according to Leeland Chee.

Oh my, I really need to read that Campaign guide. From what you quoted it all sounds very detailed, I wonder what it would say about the duel with Malak on the Star Forge. Maybe something like 'Revan kills Malak'.

Btw, the Star Wars Databank says this: Bandon was killed by agents of the Republic searching for the location of Darth Malak's secret source of power, the Star Forge.

Doesn’t quite flow with the Campaign Guide. Agents? Plural? Doesn’t even mention Revan? What’s happening!

Here is a quote for Bastilla Shan:

"Maybe the most heroic Jedi of her time, Bastilla Shan was a Jedi exemplar."

Despite being a Jedi consular, she constructed a double bladed lightsaber. It shows that she paid importance to her skills with lightsaber.

Doesn’t make her great with a lightsaber, and being heroic also isn’t really a way to show how great her powers are.

From behind the scenes section in the official databank:

"Armed with a double-bladed lightsaber and equipped with Force abilities available to a Jedi Sentinel, she is a good choice for close-assault combat action."

Okay, so Jedi Sentinels are good for close-assault combat action, does that make her stand out in terms of combat?

She also worked with and fought alongside Revan for a long duration during the Jedi Civil War, which would have enhanced her experience.

Enhanced her experience. Okay, is it proven that she fought a lot with him?

The fact that the Jedi Council made her part of the Jedi Strike Team which boarded Darth Revan's flagship is a testament to her capabilities as a whole and not just Battle Meditation. Jolee Bindo also recognized her strength.

She would fail terribly if Malak didn’t interfere, along with the other no name Jedi. When did Jolee Bindo say he ‘recognized’ her strength?

By the time she embraced the dark side, she said this about her abilities: "I am more powerful than all but few Jedi Masters."

Yeah, overconfidence is a powerful human trait. Definitely of the Dark Side.

Also when she dueled Revan on the Star Forge, the superweapon directly aided her in combat by automatically replenishing her energies when necessary. So she had a big advantage in this fight but still lost to Revan.

Because Revan is just the best of his era and can’t afford to have Bastila (one feat wonder) beat him.

Revan had to go in the tomb of Naga Sadow to get access to the final star map. To accomplish this task, he had to go through the entire Sith training procedure and follow orders of Yuthura Ban's mentor, Uthar Wynn. And of-course he had to assist Yuthura in killing him. Without his help, she would have never made it.

I will try to find some canonical information on Uthar Wynn.

Okay, be sure you find something that states Revan defeated Uthar on his own. Wouldn’t want to fail now, I’m actually very impressed with your use of the Campaign Guide so far.

Sure!

"Cold, menacing, and unapproachable, Nord fears no one. Ultimately, it takes a person of equal power to defeat him, as Revan does."

Source: KOTOR Compaign Guide (C-Canon material according to Leeland Chee.)

Equal power? Isn’t that a little bit diminishing for Revan to be equal to a non Force user…

And is it bad to do so?

Did I say it was?

We all know Revan was the top dog of his era, but the question is how he compares to characters of other era’s, especially Galen ‘overpowered’ Marek in this case who beat Vader.

Enhanced her experience. Okay, is it proven that she fought a lot with him?

Or by how much?

S_W_legend, calling you a fanboy is a vast understatement, you are a SUPER fanboy!!

I just realized something. Bastilla Shan, a featless Padawan, but she, was given accolades as being one of the most heroic jedi of her time. She was also put on the strike team to capture revan.

Sw Legend, I think you just shot your own argument in the foot.

If Bastilla> other jedi and Malak is proved by these nameless other Jedi he had killed, and the ones he drained from Dantooine, AND bastilla is better than all of those....

There is the first inkling we have that the Jedi Order was EXTREMELY weak at the time of KOTOR. Where else would you put a padawan on a strike team? Or trust same padawan to see over your greatest enemy, revan?

If the Jedi order was that weak, (and we have never been able to establish its actual power level at the time of the game) then it makes everything Revan even canonically accomplishes look even weaker.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
You made an assertion (Revan has vast Telekinetic abilities). You then supported it with an example (Revan moved several objects with telekinesis on Dantooine). I pointed out that a similar example, one at least as impressive (Luke on Dagobah) was not indicative of vast telekinetic abilities (as he was easily overwhelmed with that same power by Vader).

Revan wasn't even gesturing on the objects. Who was simply moving them with focus. Also the objects were revolving around him and they themselves were spinning too. Revan also had slightly lifted himself up from floor to the point that he was no longer touching it. He was still in a siting position. So there is a vast difference in what has been shown in this case and what Luke showed in Dagobah. You clearly need to get your eyes checked.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
So the piece of evidence you supplied is not sufficient to establish 'vast telekinetic abilities.' That you attempted to hedge by claiming that Revan's power grew since he had been on Dantooine does two things: 1. It renders the piece of evidence in question both obsolete and irrelevant and 2. illustrates that your position is not so much backed by evidence as demanding of evidence. It is thus because your bias made the decision prior to any examination of fact.

I used an early example and envisioned that how the things would be by the time he set foot on Star Forge. However it is apparent that your thinking levels are too steep.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Really? Luke was balancing an obviously heavy stone (based on the thud with which it hit the ground) atop another, larger stone which also required his focus as it fell when he lost his connection. Luke had the added benefit of being upside down with a senile octocentarian atop his boot. And maybe a week of training.

Those rocks were flat to a certain degree that they could hold on upon each other. It is like picking bricks up and mounting them on top of each other.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Your assertion that the objects were heavier? Prove it. I (and I'm tiny) can lift my swivel chair with one arm. Do you think a universe with flimsi instead of paper and durasteel instead of steel would be content with plastic?

Pick up a wooden chair and than pick up a stone the size of a brick and tell me that which is heavier.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Your desperation is belied by the rather feeble attempt at an insult.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Luke's showing on dagobah isn't as impressive as you make it out to be. Luke was moving a rock at a time with gestures, piling them up. We saw him doing this only once in the ESB. It is not that of a big deal. I can pile up a few rocks too.

Revan wasn't even gesturing on the objects. Who was simply moving them with focus. Also the objects were revolving around him and they themselves were spinning too. Revan also had slightly lifted himself up from floor to the point that he was no longer touching it. He was still in a siting position. So there is a vast difference in what has been shown in this case and what Luke showed in Dagobah. You clearly need to get your eyes checked.

Well, this much was a waste of your time. Reading comprehension could have saved you both paragraphs. Red never said Luke was impressive. You were the one trying to claim Revan was impressive.

Then you said it wasn't impressive. And now you are saying it is impressive again.

You can't really Belittle what luke did, because NO ONE thinks it was impressive, and in fact, pointing out that Luke wasn't doing much on Dagobah makes YOUR argument that Revan WAS impressive, all the weaker.

That example was quoted to just give a basic idea of Revan's telekinetic moves. I am sure that by the time he reached Star Forge, he would be swirling lot heavier and larger objects with the Force.

Prove it.

However it is apparent that your thinking levels are too steep.

What does that even mean? Was it an insult? Or were you complimenting Red. Really, the intention of either kind of comment should be crystal clear.

Wow! I am amazed at such display of power. Tell me that how it is as impressive as swirling several objects around yourself without even gesturing at them? Also Revan had no contact with the floor while Luke had a hand on the ground.

How is either display impressive? they are both padawan level excercises.

Those rocks were flat to a certain degree that they could hold on upon each other. It is like picking bricks up and mounting them on top of each other.

I am not desperate.

Maybe not. But you do lack any level of reading comprehension.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Revan wasn't even gesturing on the objects. Who was simply moving them with focus. Also the objects were revolving around him and they themselves were spinning too. Revan also had slightly lifted himself up from floor to the point that he was no longer touching it. He was still in a siting position.

Revan was a Sith Lord before this happened and had done all his training before, his Force Power hadn't decreased he just hadn't relearnt how to use it.

Revan had been a Jedi and then a DLOTS for years. Luke had been using the Force for months.

It's the equivalent of asking me to lift a weight they use on the Worlds Strongest Man show, then getting the Worlds Strongest Man to try it. He'd succeed I wouldn;'t. He's had practice and time to develop.

*Sighs* TJ please post slower.

Christ, I don't think I've ever put someone on Ignore before, but this guy is just that dense.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Christ, I don't think I've ever put someone on Ignore before, but this guy is just that dense.

See what?

HA! You know I'm kidding little buddy, I love you.

But yeah, Legend. The guy listed RPG statistics as a source of Revan's abilities. If you can't see the idiocy in that, then your hopeless.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
See what?

HA! You know I'm kidding little buddy, I love you.

But yeah, Legend. The guy listed RPG statistics as a source of Revan's abilities. If you can't see the idiocy in that, then your hopeless.

you guys are jerks. Revan is better than starkiller! that's obvious! WHy? cause revan is an 8 and Killer is a 6!!! that's why! its obviousl. dummys.

😉

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Luke's showing on dagobah isn't as impressive as you make it out to be. Luke was moving a rock at a time with gestures, piling them up. We saw him doing this only once in the ESB. It is not that of a big deal. I can pile up a few rocks too.

Oh right you forgot how revan(at the time on dantooine after escaping taris) has already been training in the academy for MONTHS, luke was on dagobah for mere days.

I know that your trying to claim revans TK feats are impressive but there is absolutely nothing to substantiate that let alone it being depicted by any source material.

Hell revan has yet to even display a fraction of the telekinetic feats both vader and galen marek did(and they both far out class him in TK combat and abilities based on what we have seen).

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

That example was quoted to just give a basic idea of Revan's telekinetic moves. I am sure that by the time he reached Star Forge, he would be swirling lot heavier and larger objects with the Force.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Wow! I am amazed at such display of power. Tell me that how it is as impressive as swirling several objects around yourself without even gesturing at them? Also Revan had no contact with the floor while Luke had a hand on the ground.

Your incredibly desperate to fellate revan.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I am not desperate. You are I am more desperate in downplaying overpowering Revan though.

Now jedi, see who the real jerk is.

Red never said Luke was impressive. You were the one trying to claim Revan was impressive.

This.

👆