Revan Vs Starkiller (at his awesome prime)

Started by mattatom16 pages
mattatom UNSC's finest.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
As usual, more illogical nonsense was expected from you.

Ajunta Pall was among the most famous Dark Lords from ancient times. When he met Revan, he was highly impressed by his power and strength in the Force. The point is that Revan was held in high esteem by not just people of his age, but also from the ancient times, and from future too, which is indeed impressive.

Their is a chance that Kreia was probably mocking her pupil on her dueling skills or perhaps was refering to the dueling skills of the ancient Dark Lord, Tulak Hord. However she never compared Revan to the ancients.

Why are you so desperate to rank him low?

I go by achievements of characters to gauge their position. Revan have plenty and only few surpassed him.

What achievements will they be then?

Slash_KMC Retired Helper
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Ajunta Pall was among the most famous Dark Lords from ancient times. When he met Revan, he was highly impressed by his power and strength in the Force. The point is that Revan was held in high esteem by not just people of his age, but also from the ancient times, and from future too, which is indeed impressive.

Is this canon?

truejedi Senior Member

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
As usual, more illogical nonsense was expected from you.

you're pathetic.


Their is a chance that Kreia was probably mocking her pupil on her dueling skills or perhaps was refering to the dueling skills of the ancient Dark Lord, Tulak Hord.

Prove it.


However she never compared Revan to the ancients.

Yes she did. You truly are in denial, aren't you?


Why are you so desperate to rank him low?

I asked a simple question, and you can't even answer.
Pathetic.


I go by achievements of characters to gauge their position. Revan have plenty and only few surpassed him.

Revan have plenty? Try Revan have none.

S_W_LeGenD Senior Member

Originally posted by mattatom
What achievements will they be then?

1. Led The Republic to victory in the Mandalorian Wars and killed Mandalore - The Ultimate in single combat. He not just proved to be a brilliant tactician but was also the single greatest warrior of his age as Canderous once remarked.

2. As a Dark Lord, he managed to establish a Sith Empire and challenged the writ of The Republic itself. Even when he embraced the Dark Side, he had firm control over his actions and powers.

The most powerful is the one who learns to control his power.

Quoted from: The Clone Wars

3. As a redeemed Jedi, played a vital role in destroying the powerful Sith Empire. He was strong enough to deal with all the tough challenges and threats that lay ahead in his path, entered the Star Forge, butchered most of the Sith forces stationed there, and killed a well prepared Darth Malak in a single battle. He was unstoppable and undefeated.

He was savior, villian, hero and an accomplished warrior. He possessed the power to decide the fate of the Galaxy. So in the bigger picture, he was among the big ones.

S_W_LeGenD Senior Member

Originally posted by truejedi
I am pathetic.p

Corrected.

Originally posted by truejedi
Prove it.

I don't have KOTOR 2 installed now. Maybe you can provide me the quotes so that it becomes clear that in which context the comments were passed.

It was pointed out in AOTC that Jedi Masters tend to under-rate the abilities of their pupils. Maybe they expect more from their pupils. Anakin was frustated by this.

Originally posted by truejedi
Yes she did. You truly are in denial, aren't you?

Actual quote please!

Originally posted by truejedi
I asked a simple question, and you can't even answer.
Pathetic.

You answer mine.

Originally posted by truejedi
Revan have plenty? Try Revan have none.

Hence you know nothing about him. You should quite this debate.

truejedi Senior Member

Your done. And on ignore. And ask anyone, i don't put people on ignore. You're my first, how good does it feel?

mattatom UNSC's finest.

So in combat feats we have about two or three.
If you want to discuss tactics go comment on one of Hewhoknowsnothing's threads.

S_W_LeGenD Senior Member

Originally posted by truejedi
Your done. And on ignore. And ask anyone, i don't put people on ignore. You're my first, how good does it feel?

I feel relieved. Thank you.

I have now one less person (biased against KOTOR) to deal with.

S_W_LeGenD Senior Member

Originally posted by mattatom
So in combat feats we have about two or three.
If you want to discuss tactics go comment on one of Hewhoknowsnothing's threads.

If you cannot guage his powers, than pay attention to the remarks of people who admired him. They passed those remarks for some good enough reasons. Also, you can go through the KOTOR Compaign Guide book. You will learn a lot about his exploits and victories. He has been declared to be a powerful warrior and strong in the Force, and was also a brilliant tactician. Hence, the basic reasons have been provided to make it "clear" that why he achieved so much. You can also check his stats to get a basic idea about his abilities, since no books or comics have been solely devoted to him as of yet. Or wait for them to come out.

Lord Lucien Lets all love Lain

Originally posted by truejedi
Your done. And on ignore. And ask anyone, i don't put people on ignore. You're my first, how good does it feel?
This guy has been the first for two of us tonight. What a slu/t.

mattatom UNSC's finest.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
If you cannot guage his powers, than pay attention to the remarks of people who admired him. They passed those remarks for some good enough reasons. Also, you can go through the KOTOR Compaign Guide book. You will learn a lot about his exploits and victories. He has been declared to be a powerful warrior and strong in the Force, and was also a brilliant tactician. Hence, the basic reasons have been provided to make it "clear" that why he achieved so much. You can also check his stats to get a basic idea about his abilities, since no books or comics have been solely devoted to him as of yet. Or wait for them to come out.
At least I can spell. Luke, Sidious, Mace, hell even Galen Marek have better combat feats than this Revan you speak of making them more likely to win in combat.

Slash_KMC Retired Helper

Legend, respond to my post.

Slash_KMC Retired Helper
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
and killed a well prepared Darth Malak in a single battle. He was unstoppable and undefeated.

This again? Don't you pay attention when we teach you stuff?

It hasn't been confirmed he beat Malak fair and square, accept it and move on with your life.

Nephthys The Gr8est!!!!!!!!

Then almost everyone of Revan's feats are not really that impressive, because Bastilla was right there helping him the entire time?

DE, you can pick your poison however you like it. It hurts revan if Bastilla was strong, and it hurts him if she was weak.

I'm not picking anything, I'm merely stating fact. And Revan doesn't actually have impressive feats, mostly it's just accolades etc. But her most impressive ones (beating the tarauntareks, Bastila, Malak, Yathura + her master etc(?)) she did solo.

And I think you're being a little harsh btw.

Slash_KMC Retired Helper

But we just lack the 'how' of those solo victories.

Nephthys The Gr8est!!!!!!!!

Who cares about the how? As long as Revan beat them some way, she has those feats and is at that level. Saying 'she might have used grenades' doesn't matter, becuase it would be like me saying 'Boba Fett hasn't ever beat a jedi in a fight without his gizmo's, so he must suck'. The fact still remains that he did beat them, no matter how, and in a way that can be replicated. So did Revan.

Wolverine2179 Restricted

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Your beliefs do not matter. I can say that many of the Jedi in PT era were lame too.
Yeah and it just happens that the lame jedi in the PT era are far superior to that of your precious kotor era.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Your perception is not canon. She was declared to be a Hero for some reasons or achievements.
And? How does this show that shes ub3r and incredibly skillful in the ways of the jedi?

Does that make han solo a force god seeing he is labelled a republic hero? She was simply a hero due to the fact that she fought alongside revan.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Calo Nord had companions too. Maybe Revan's party members were busy taking on them.
And considering the strength of revans party, they must have been beaten pretty easily and then the rest team up on nord.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And the author makes it clear that Revan killed Calo Nord by himself.
No they did not, all they state was that he killed calo nord(IDK how does this specifically states he did it himself) when a large possibility is that he simply delivered the killing blow while being teamed up on.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Calo Nord was undefeated until he met Revan.
And just how many notable bounty hunters were there to challenge nord? Last i recall, none.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

You are comparing apples with oranges here. Clearly you have lost your mind and are wasting time.
And your clearly an idiot as i was using a metaphor.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Re-check these lines: "With two dark side cronies in tow, Bandon confronts Revan but is killed by the former Sith Lord."
see the below.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Again! Your assumptions do not matter. The author specfically states that it was the former Sith Lord himself and not his party, otherwise it would have been stated as such.
Correct, and then i'd assume historians would say that hitler's army and not hitler himself killed millions of jews when the fact is that they stated hitler killed millions.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
And you accuse me of being biased? 🙄
Yes sir.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Rankings means nothing. It is the power, experience, and abilities that matter.
Right, so despite how strong bastila is in the force, they wouldn't give her a promotion to jedi knight.

The more skillful and experienced you are, the more the council will increase your rank among the jedi order. STOP being so stupid.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

You clearly failed to understand my point. I referred the case of Obi-Wan to show that rankings do not matter. I know that Maul was better than him but than again, Obi-Wan managed to kill him. It is certainly an accomplishment.
Your point was that rankings mean nothing and only skill power and experience do and your using a fallible example such as the TPM duel to back your pathetic half assed claims.

First off obi wan killing maul was due to PIS, so i don't see how this proves your points at ALL.

Secondly, as i already mentioned to you, if bastilas power, experience and skill were so great, why isn't she promoted to a jedi knight? Why is she a measly padawan?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Also, he was at that time a Padawan but still was ready to take the role of a Jedi Master when he decided to train Anakin in the ways of the Force. Again! Rankings mean nothing if personal experience and capabilities are taken in to account.
Jedi knight my friend not jedi master and yoda was hesitant to allow obi wan to train anakin, yoda only allowed obi wan to train him due to the fact that qui gons dying wish was for obi wan to train anakin as he was already dying.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

B/W I will check that thread.
Then do so and shut up.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Use the stats than to get an idea.
Its still inconclusive, we have yet to actually see him do anything with the force let alone have we seen him during combat.

Even vader and galen has performed feats that outclass revans command of the force.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

No named? You don't read KOTOR comics than.

Names like Nomi, Vodo, Lucien, Vandar, Vrook, Kriea, Kavar, Atris, and Zhar are nobodies to you?

Except for vodo, kreia and nomi, the rest are feat less wonders hence they are nobodies.

They have done nothing in the force except get their asses handed to them extremely easily.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

How about the fact that Sith (including Revan) were so powerful during OLD Republic era as Duron Qel Droma once remarked? No wonder that even the veteran Jedi Masters in the Old Republic era were no match for them.
Yeah, once again nobodies. Never once did i deny that he was powerful, but your sexually fellating him to an extent where its just wrong and unbearable.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Prove it.
Because we have seen him in combat and we actually see how skillful he really is(you know taking on 10 jedi at once, ragdolling 2 jedi and smashing one through a wall, possibly even using TK to slow down the ship that crashed behind him).

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Those Dark Jedi were there to protect the Dark Lord from internal threats. Surely they were among the more capable ones before entrusted for such an important task.
And if revan is "that good"(as your too fond of saying), why did he even need protection in the first place?

Once again they were no named jedi, and we have not seen the full extent of the duel, but then again, how does killing one no named dark jedi = to her being awesome in the force?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I am not trying to make her look uber. She was strong and was a hero. It means something. I actually referred to the duel in which she had a support of the Star Forge to battle Revan, and the weapon would have augmented her powers by considerable margin.
She was strong how? A one feat wonder? And prove that the star forge would boost an average janes power by a considerable margin.

Your clearly stupid.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I go by achievements of characters to gauge their position. Revan have plenty and only few surpassed him.

Yeah revan achieved alot and showed us no force feats at all.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Actual quote please!

The great masters of our era would be as if children playing with toys compared to the prowess of the old masters.

Your clearly a f*cking moron in denial.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

2. As a Dark Lord, he managed to establish a Sith Empire and challenged the writ of The Republic itself. Even when he embraced the Dark Side, he had firm control over his actions and powers.

Yeah, he challenged a broken and weakened republic.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

3. As a redeemed Jedi, played a vital role in destroying the powerful Sith Empire. He was strong enough to deal with all the tough challenges and threats that lay ahead in his path, entered the Star Forge, butchered most of the Sith forces stationed there, and killed a well prepared Darth Malak in a single battle. He was unstoppable and undefeated.

And i forget how revan had his party with him on the star forge 🙄 that helped him fight through those dark jedi.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

He was savior, villian, hero and an accomplished warrior. He possessed the power to decide the fate of the Galaxy. So in the bigger picture, he was among the big ones.
And the ub3r revan died at the hands of the true sith empire despite him ub3r force accomplishments.

Wolverine2179 Restricted
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
If you cannot guage his powers, than pay attention to the remarks of people who admired him. They passed those remarks for some good enough reasons. Also, you can go through the KOTOR Compaign Guide book. You will learn a lot about his exploits and victories. He has been declared to be a powerful warrior and strong in the Force, and was also a brilliant tactician. Hence, the basic reasons have been provided to make it "clear" that why he achieved so much. You can also check his stats to get a basic idea about his abilities, since no books or comics have been solely devoted to him as of yet. Or wait for them to come out.

And how does this allow us to make an accurate gauge on his powers if we don't actually see him in combat?

We know he beat alot of people but the exact circumstances of HOW he beat them is completely unknown, he may have used mines, grenades blasters and any other conventional methods.

And this IS a possibility, Mara jade, a well known jedi master still uses the conventional methods to kill her enemies despite the fact shes a force user.

S_W_LeGenD Senior Member

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
You say it’s irrelevant because you do not even understand where I’m going. I was comparing it to the duel between Malak and Revan because just like that one, we do not have enough details about the fight. If that is the only information we have about the fight, it can be said that Revan didn’t even switch on his lightsaber, but just used dirty tricks to take out Bandon. Now you’re probably gonna spew nonsense like “but that isn’t logical.” No, but it is possible. I’m sure you have some source with the actual fight in it, mind giving it?

From Chronicles of the Old Republic (C-canon source):

After a long and vicious battle in the deepest area of the STAR FORGE, Dark Lord of the Sith DARTH REVAN succeeds in destroying his ex-apprentice DARTH MALAK.

From the KOTOR Campaign Guide (C-canon source):

Though the Sith Empire continues to grow for some months under the control of the traitorous Darth Malak, eventually the redeemed Revan slays his former apprentice and shatters the backbone of the reborn Sith Empire.

Malak was well prepared in this expected duel.

From the Malak's databank:

The Sith Lord had grotesquely adapted the Rakatan device to draw energy directly from chained Jedi captives. He replenished his life force from the captives by draining theirs.

From Star Forge's databank:

He used captive Jedi to help fuel his power within the heart of the Star Forge.

And than their is Duron's vision:

In which Revan is seen standing near fallen Malak with his ignited lightsaber. The vision corroborates with the lines mentioned in KOTOR Campaign Guide: Revan slays his former apprentice.

So far this is known about the duel.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Maybe you should leave the debate and come back when you can see everything objective and not as the Revan fanboy. Again, it say agents in plural and I guess the Star Wars databank can be more trusted. This KOTOR book is the Campaign Guide? That one really delves into specifics, Revan killed Bandon. Too many details.

Star Wars databank only gives overview of the events concerning KOTOR. The books contain more information and it has been made clear in several canon sources that Revan faced Malak alone in the Star Forge.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Other era’s are filled with somebodies, and Galen Marek could take almost any of them. Plus being famous doesn’t mean she is among the greats, it means she has one powerful feat. I’d say Trawn is famous too, but that doesn’t mean he is powerful.

And like truejedi said, it really says a lot about the KotOR era if Bastila would be considered great.


Dude! She was considered to be a hero and a model Jedi.

How about this: (From the databank)

"Knowing how valuable she was to the order, the Jedi Council urged Bastila to be cautious, be she nonetheless devoted every fiber of her being towards defeating the Sith menace and proving herself to the Jedi."

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
This may have enhanced her experience, but just proof by how much. You’re entering a realm of speculation when you start like this.

You want me to pull mathmatical figures on this one?

She would have got considerable experience from those exploits.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
I never denied Revan being powerful, I even said a few times that he had to be powerful. But his feats aren’t really that solid and impressive.

His feats are solid. Defeated all kinds of enemies he encountered during his exploits (Sith Lords, Dark Jedi, Bounty Hunters, Mandalorians, Beasts etc.), managed to establish a powerful Sith Empire during his tenure as Dark Lord, and destroying it later on after being redeemed. These are the feats that you should keep in mind. Now I know that you want to see some of his force moves too, but for that you will have to wait for him to be featured in comics or novels.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Burden of proof. And don’t give me in-game dialogue.

See above.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
There is a reason why we don’t take characters dialogue as fact, definitely when they’re talking about their own strength. It’s not because you’re confident in something, that you actually are what you claim to be. It’s called ego boosting and it applies mostly to Dark Side users (especially those who just turned to the Dark Side). Do I really have to quote Anakin Skywalker?

Dialogues actually reveal more about the characters. It becomes clear that how they perceive the world through their own eyes and what they think about others. They should be taken in to account until they are exposed as lies.

She was not a joke of a combatant either.

Also check this:

"The next time Revan encountered Bastila, she was a dark warrior filled with rage."

Revan defeated her on the Star Forge, even when her powers were vastly augmented by the superweapon. Now that was an achievement.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
First, I’d like a detailed canon description of that fight, so I’m sure he really beat her fair and square.

Consult the KOTOR authors than.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Second, Bastila is not exceptional

She was a skilled combatant. The general consensus about her was that she was "strong" and was a "hero." Your perceptions do not matter.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
He was probably better, when the top bounty hunter of an era is more powerful than the top Jedi, we have a major problem. What exactly has Calo Nord done by the way, that is so impressive? Like, solid feats. Not just being the most powerful bounty hunter.

No where did the author stated that the top bounty hunter of KOTOR era was more powerful than the top Jedi of the same era. He was nonetheless a very skilled combatant and was very dangerous.

From the databank:

"And among the criminals and scum inhabiting the Outer Rim four thousand years ago, no name was more feared than that of the galaxy's most notorious bounty hunter: Calo Nord."

Nord killed lots of people including other Bounty Hunters who were paid to kill him. He feared no one and would even kill Sith Troopers if they would stand in his way. It was rumored that Calo had killed more people during his tenure as a bounty hunter than even the "Iridian Plague." He also killed several Rancor beasts for Davik Kang. He was planning to kill a Krayt Dragon too for the pearl, which would further up his reputation. He survived in his first encounter with Revan and Darth Malak was impressed to an extent that he hired him to take out Revan along with Bastilla Shan.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
So you’re admitting that Revan may have used tactics and not just pure power to defeat his opponents of which have not been given a proper description off.

Revan could resort to using tactics if needed so.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
What the hell, I thought Advent said that he said ‘there are no established power charts’?? Is he contradicting himself?

No! He is not contradicting himself. He just pointed out that stats or a character can be used for comparison purposes and as references for other canon materials. Surprised!... right?

S_W_LeGenD Senior Member

@ Wolverine2179

It is a waste of time debating with you specially. You are too much blinded by you PT fanboyism and you even question the validity of the canonical references provided for KOTOR events. You pass your own silly assumptions for the provided canonical information to form baseless arguments. Don't expect a reply from me and STFU.