Wonder Woman vs Silver Surfer h2h

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Well she did have to eventually resort to her trinkets, she realized the situation was futile and that outcome would certainly not be in her favor. The fight was more of a testament to her abilities but it did have a taint of PIS considering he has defeated more imposing foes with less effort in the past..althought I dont know why that matters because SS doesnt have Supes combat abilities.

She only used her tiara at the VERY end while she was interrogating Lord. She just needed to temporarily subdue him, while she got the answers from Lord. She didn't want to let him out of the lasso, so the tiara was her best option. She tried to use the lasso and kryptonite dagger, but was unsuccessful. The situation was futile, but not for the reasons you are saying. She only had 3 options - (1) Use her lasso to break him from Lord's control; that didn't work (2) Kill him: something Diana didn't want to do and probably wasn't capabale of doing without prep; (3) distract him long enough to get to the source of the problem, Lord. When 1 didn't work, she went to the next best option, number 3.

And to ultimatethor, it is silly to assume she is not capable of doing something that is obviously in her skill set. Do you have any on panel evidence that would lead us to believe that she is NOT capable of combat at those speeds? If so, then I'll retract the point. If not, then given all of the other evidence of her speed and agility and her own belief that she is faster than Clark, I'm inclined to believe that she is capable of fighting at those speeds. She has to think and move just as fast to repel the attacks others have shown in this thread as she would for physical attacks. You just view her incredible reflex speeds and skill to be off point. I view them as being directly reflective of her COMBAT abilities. This is all part of her training as an Amazon.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
She only used her tiara at the VERY end while she was interrogating Lord. She just needed to temporarily subdue him, while she got the answers from Lord. She didn't want to let him out of the lasso, so the tiara was her best option. She tried to use the lasso and kryptonite dagger, but was unsuccessful. The situation was futile, but not for the reasons you are saying. She only had 3 options - (1) Use her lasso to break him from Lord's control; that didn't work (2) Kill him: something Diana didn't want to do and probably wasn't capabale of doing without prep; (3) distract him long enough to get to the source of the problem, Lord. When 1 didn't work, she went to the next best option, number 3.

And to ultimatethor, it is silly to assume she is not capable of doing something that is obviously in her skill set. Do you have any on panel evidence that would lead us to believe that she is NOT capable of combat at those speeds? If so, then I'll retract the point. If not, then given all of the [B]other evidence of her speed and agility and her own belief that she is faster than Clark, I'm inclined to believe that she is capable of fighting at those speeds. She has to think and move just as fast to repel the attacks others have shown in this thread as she would for physical attacks. You just view her incredible reflex speeds and skill to be off point. I view them as being directly reflective of her COMBAT abilities. This is all part of her training as an Amazon. [/B]

Dude dont use asters cop out style on me. The only thing that is silly is u saying it is within her abilities and being unable to show her doing it. It is ur duty to prove she can do it with on panel evidence not mine to prove a negative. If she is capable of fighting( physical confrontations) at those speeds then she shud obviously have examples of her doing so in comics. Yes she does have to think and move at the same speeds to react to the other attacks shown as she wud in reaction to physical in this thread but if she has not been able to think at move at the same speeds in these situations then we cannot simply assume she can when she has failed to do so. Whether it is all partof her training as an Amazon is highly irrlevant if she continuously fails to show this when she gets into these type of situations.

What u are suggesting is something that few characters aside flash have ever shown in direct physical combat. If she is capable of doing the same thing in such a situation then im sure there are examples of her doing such which u can show. Its that simple. If u cant do that dont say that she is so skilled and fast SS wont land a hit when u cant show her displaying these skills in physical confrontations to such degrees

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Dude dont use asters cop out style on me. The only thing that is silly is u saying it is within her abilities and being unable to show her doing it. It is ur duty to prove she can do it with on panel evidence not mine to prove a negative. If she is capable of fighting( physical confrontations) at those speeds then she shud obviously have examples of her doing so in comics. Yes she does have to think and move at the same speeds to react to the [B]other attacks shown as she wud in reaction to physical in this thread but if she has not been able to think at move at the same speeds in these situations then we cannot simply assume she can when she has failed to do so. Whether it is all partof her training as an Amazon is highly irrlevant if she continuously fails to show this when she gets into these type of situations.

What u are suggesting is something that few characters aside flash have ever shown in direct physical combat. If she is capable of doing the same thing in such a situation then im sure there are examples of her doing such which u can show. Its that simple. If u cant do that dont say that she is so skilled and fast SS wont land a hit when u cant show her displaying these skills in physical confrontations to such degrees [/B]

You are speaking in hyperbole. I never once said that SS wouldn't be able to land a hit on her now did I? I'm not talking about Flash like level combat speed. That is something that is obviously unique to the Flash. I am merely pointing out that (1) it is obvious that she is fast enough to take on SS in a H2H combat and (2) the examples of her using her bracelets in this manner ARE examples of her combat speed. You and I obviously disagree on what is encompassed in the category of combat speed. If she has to think and move in the same manner, and just as quickly, why would she not be able to do so? Barring evidence to the contrary, I stand behind my view.

Where she gains the advantage is in her MA skill and that would allow her to dodge/block/and land more hits. There is PLENTY of evidence of her skill level. Just take a trip over to her respect thread to find those.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
You are speaking in hyperbole. I never once said that SS wouldn't be able to land a hit on her now did I? I'm not talking about Flash like level combat speed. That is something that is obviously unique to the Flash. I am merely pointing out that (1) it is obvious that she is fast enough to take on SS in a H2H combat and (2) the examples of her using her bracelets in this manner ARE examples of her combat speed. You and I obviously disagree on what is encompassed in the category of combat speed. If she has to think and move in the same manner, and just as quickly, why would she not be able to do so? Barring evidence to the contrary, I stand behind my view.

Where she gains the advantage is in her MA skill and [B]that would allow her to dodge/block/and land more hits. There is PLENTY of evidence of her skill level. Just take a trip over to her respect thread to find those. [/B]

Okay i must have mixed u up with fangirl. Because what i was mainly arguing against was the erroneous belief that SS would not be able to land a hit on her as she wud block all of his attacks. I have alrady admitted earlier in this thread that she is certainly superior skillwise and speedwise in H2h. I even said that she would land more hits than him but i based my arguement on Ss durability helping him to overcome her skill and speed advantages.

Now for the next part i have to disagree there. Firstly the examples of her blocking lasers and stuff, while they are good examples and she shud technically be able to do the same in direct combat, her not having examples of doing such in actual physical confrontations takes precedence( hence the reason im asking for examples of her doing so) over rationalizations of what she shud and shud not be able to do.
Using these examples as evidence often leads people into arguing tactics that are inapplicable to wonderwoman. In the past ive heard arguements like wonderwoman wins by hitting the person thousands of times in a second or what not meanwhile she has never come close to doing such a thing on panel. Heck even in this thread some have said that because of wonderwomans hand speed(which she only seems to be able to use to blcok lasers) surfer wont even land a hit. Meanwhile her actual on panel experiences in physical confrontations tell a different strory.
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I dont dispute that she has an advantage in MA skill and H2H speed. What im disputing is the wrong level to which some people believe her H2H speed advantage is, based on these examples, while her history in actual physical confrontations tells us it is nowhere near this.

I agree that trying to extrapolate from feats is dangerous business because it can lead to pointless arguments. I make the cardinal sin here because I think that the examples that we do have from her are so analogous to actual physical fighting speed that it is not much of an assumption to make. Diana has steadily been powered up in recent years (and will continue to be under Simone's pen) and I would not be surprised if we do receive definitive panel evidence in the near future. *crosses fingers*

Back to the topic at hand, assuming that this is purely H2H and SS isn't using his many other abilities, I give the majority to Diana.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
I agree that trying to extrapolate from feats is dangerous business because it can lead to pointless arguments. I make the cardinal sin here because I think that the examples that we do have from her are so analogous to actual physical fighting speed that it is not much of an assumption to make. Diana has steadily been powered up in recent years (and will continue to be under Simone's pen) and I would not be surprised if we do receive definitive panel evidence in the near future. *crosses fingers*

Back to the topic at hand, assuming that this is purely H2H and SS isn't using his many other abilities, I give the majority to Diana.

fair enough. It wud be a really gud fight anyways

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
She only used her tiara at the VERY end while she was interrogating Lord. She just needed to temporarily subdue him, while she got the answers from Lord. She didn't want to let him out of the lasso, so the tiara was her best option. She tried to use the lasso and kryptonite dagger, but was unsuccessful. The situation was futile, but not for the reasons you are saying. She only had 3 options - (1) Use her lasso to break him from Lord's control; that didn't work (2) Kill him: something Diana didn't want to do and probably wasn't capabale of doing without prep; (3) distract him long enough to get to the source of the problem, Lord. When 1 didn't work, she went to the next best option, number 3.

And to ultimatethor, it is silly to assume she is not capable of doing something that is obviously in her skill set. Do you have any on panel evidence that would lead us to believe that she is NOT capable of combat at those speeds? If so, then I'll retract the point. If not, then given all of the [B]other evidence of her speed and agility and her own belief that she is faster than Clark, I'm inclined to believe that she is capable of fighting at those speeds. She has to think and move just as fast to repel the attacks others have shown in this thread as she would for physical attacks. You just view her incredible reflex speeds and skill to be off point. I view them as being directly reflective of her COMBAT abilities. This is all part of her training as an Amazon. [/B]

The fight was already beginning to turn agaisnt her, she needed to complete her objective before it got any worst. So yeah essentially as you said all she had was a couple of options, most of which were not viable for the reasons you stated.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Okay i must have mixed u up with fangirl. Because what i was mainly arguing against was the erroneous belief that SS would not be able to land a hit on her as she wud block all of his attacks. I have alrady admitted earlier in this thread that she is certainly superior skillwise and speedwise in H2h. I even said that she would land more hits than him but i based my arguement on Ss durability helping him to overcome her skill and speed advantages.

Now for the next part i have to disagree there. Firstly the examples of her blocking lasers and stuff, while they are good examples and she shud technically be able to do the same in direct combat, her not having examples of doing such in actual physical confrontations takes precedence( hence the reason im asking for examples of her doing so) over rationalizations of what she shud and shud not be able to do.
Using these examples as evidence often leads people into arguing tactics that are inapplicable to wonderwoman. In the past ive heard arguements like wonderwoman wins by hitting the person thousands of times in a second or what not meanwhile she has never come close to doing such a thing on panel. Heck even in this thread some have said that because of wonderwomans hand speed(which she only seems to be able to use to blcok lasers) surfer wont even land a hit. Meanwhile her actual on panel experiences in physical confrontations tell a different strory.
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I dont dispute that she has an advantage in MA skill and H2H speed. What im disputing is the wrong level to which some people believe her H2H speed advantage is, based on these examples, while her history in actual physical confrontations tells us it is nowhere near this.

I agree with you, which is why I have asked for direct examples of SS h2h ability and combat speed. Some people have decided to equate other examples of SS avoiding lasers/comets or even his flight speed to determine what he is capable of in a combat situation. The assumption is what bothers me and Untill some examples manifest of SS using superspeed in combat with a competent display of MA skill...there isnt any reason to believe he will be able to land a hit on a character with WW's h2h skill and combat speed.

Surfer. Cosmic entities>>>>>Diana w Standard gear every time.

It is inevitable.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I say Surfer takes it in the end, but it'd probably take a while for him to pull it off. He's going to have a tough time dealing with her superior skill but she's going to have an even tougher time causing any actual damage to Norrin. And if he's only barred from using the Power Cosmic for flight and offensive purposes he'll be able to heal any damage she manages to inflict before any substantial amount accumulates. It would probably be comparible to a h2h fight between Spiderman and classic Cyber(except that Surfer's head is protected too).

Pretty much.

Originally posted by vansonbee
Actually in long term of the fight, Silver Surfer still wins. Even if wonder woman tears his arm off or arm-lock. He can regenarate another with cosmic power. ( If she could tear it off) He very durable and could amp his strength way above her's.

He took a hit from She-Hulk(intent to kill) and didn't feel it and even reaction in the face* I understand ww is stronger then she-hulk, but they are close in strength terms

If Wondy has her standard gear, in a hand to hand, wouldn't she use her lasso and tiara?

Originally posted by fangirl101
she hulk is above Aunt may.

Now I know not to take you seriously.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
I agree with you, which is why I have asked for direct examples of SS h2h ability and combat speed. Some people have decided to equate other examples of SS avoiding lasers/comets or even his flight speed to determine what he is capable of in a combat situation. The assumption is what bothers me and Untill some examples manifest of SS using superspeed in combat with a competent display of MA skill...there isnt any reason to believe he will be able to land a hit on a character with WW's h2h skill and combat speed.

From the above statement,it is obvious that u grasped very little of what i said. You are selectively applying the logic when it suits u and ignoring it when it doesnt. the whole point of my argument was to denounce the belief that SS would be unable to even land a hit on wonderwoman when aside her blocking lasers no proof of the battle speed needed for this has been provided. The logic applies both ways.You cant refuse to use SS blocking lasers as evidence for him and then go around and use the same sort of evidence to determine wonderwomans battle speed. Those are terrible dounle standards. I have no problem agreeing that wonderwoman has better H2H speed and skill than SS as this is true however no proof has been provided that her speed is on the level that Ss will be unable to land even a hit.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
From the above statement,it is obvious that u grasped very little of what i said. You are selectively applying the logic when it suits u and ignoring it when it doesnt. the whole point of my argument was to denounce the belief that SS would be unable to even land a hit on wonderwoman when aside her blocking lasers no proof of the battle speed needed for this has been provided. The logic applies both ways.You cant refuse to use SS blocking lasers as evidence for him and then go around and use the same sort of evidence to determine wonderwomans battle speed. Those are terrible dounle standards. I have no problem agreeing that wonderwoman has better H2H speed and skill than SS as this is true however no proof has been provided that her speed is on the level that Ss will be unable to land even a hit.

Show SS using hand speed to block Multiple lasers. You can't. Show SS blocking a punch. You can't. Wondy has blocked physical attacks before. She SS moving at superspeed in a one on one battle hand to hand. You can't and you won't. It's not a double standard. You just refuse to admit you've lost. SS won't be able to land one single hit. He's not fast enough hand to hand, and he's not fast enough in single one on one combat. And he's certainly not skilled enough. If this were Morg, then yeah, she'd have some problems as Morg is the best hand to hand herald.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Show SS using hand speed to block Multiple lasers. You can't. Show SS blocking a punch. You can't. Wondy has blocked physical attacks before. She SS moving at superspeed in a one on one battle hand to hand. You can't and you won't. It's not a double standard. You just refuse to admit you've lost. SS won't be able to land one single hit. He's not fast enough hand to hand, and he's not fast enough in single one on one combat. And he's certainly not skilled enough. If this were Morg, then yeah, she'd have some problems as Morg is the best hand to hand herald.

Silver surfer would morph a huge dong onto himself and knock out WW when she is staring in awe... Seriously. Surfer is far to durable for WW to do any serious damage, and surfer has super speed as well...

Originally posted by fangirl101
Show SS using hand speed to block Multiple lasers. You can't. Show SS blocking a punch. You can't. Wondy has blocked physical attacks before. She SS moving at superspeed in a one on one battle hand to hand. You can't and you won't. It's not a double standard. You just refuse to admit you've lost. SS won't be able to land one single hit. He's not fast enough hand to hand, and he's not fast enough in single one on one combat. And he's certainly not skilled enough. If this were Morg, then yeah, she'd have some problems as Morg is the best hand to hand herald.

What fvck are u talking about? You have just come in with ur usual nonsense. Next thing u know u will be trying to pass of wonderwoman ramming into someone as a speedblitz 🙁 You fail to grasp the point and then come in with utterly foolish replies. Why im going to even bother explaining this part to u i dont know but i will anyway so read carefully

the scan of SS blocking a laser after at his been fired has been shown multiple times. However, my arguement is that this scan just like examples of wonderwoman blocking multiple lasers is not viable to be used in determining his speed in one on one physical h2h confrontations due to their relative lack of feats in that type of situation. Now this is what u need to get drummed into ur head, The amount of lasers blcoked is NOT RELEVANT!. Do u get that? So u saying wonderwoman has blocked multiple lasers while Ss hasnt is nonsense. This is because the whole point is that regardless of their reactions to lasers and things like that, their lack of feats inactual /physical confrontations takes precedence. Do you get it now. Wonderwoman blcoking more lasers than SS is moot because i am arguing that their assesment shud be based on feats in actual physical h2h situations. Lets say that wonderwoman can block a thousand lasers simultaneously and Ss can only block one( after its fired ). If we were to use these as viable feats all that wud happen is that we wud assume that wonderwoman has multiple times lightspeed combat speed and that SS while not to the degree of wonderwoman would still be around light speed. However it is NOT about the degree, is about the viability of using lasers and things like that as premise for determining combat speed in h2h situations. Jeez!

Also if wondy has blocked superspeed physical attacks then could u please show some examples for heavens sake because i have been requesting such examples all through this thread and it seems u have purposely turned a deaf ear.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
What fvck are u talking about? You have just come in with ur usual nonsense. Next thing u know u will be trying to pass of wonderwoman ramming into someone as a speedblitz 🙁 You fail to grasp the point and then come in with utterly foolish replies. Why im going to even bother explaining this part to u i dont know but i will anyway so read [B]carefully

the scan of SS blocking a laser after at his been fired has been shown multiple times. However, my arguement is that this scan just like examples of wonderwoman blocking multiple lasers is not viable to be used in determining his speed in one on one physical h2h confrontations due to their relative lack of feats in that type of situation. Now this is what u need to get drummed into ur head, The amount of lasers blcoked is NOT RELEVANT!. Do u get that? So u saying wonderwoman has blocked multiple lasers while Ss hasnt is nonsense. This is because the whole point is that regardless of their reactions to lasers and things like that, their lack of feats inactual /physical confrontations takes precedence. Do you get it now. Wonderwoman blcoking more lasers than SS is moot because i am arguing that their assesment shud be based on feats in actual physical h2h situations. Lets say that wonderwoman can block a thousand lasers simultaneously and Ss can only block one( after its fired ). If we were to use these as viable feats all that wud happen is that we wud assume that wonderwoman has multiple times lightspeed combat speed and that SS while not to the degree of wonderwoman would still be around light speed. However it is NOT about the degree, is about the viability of using lasers and things like that as premise for determining combat speed in h2h situations. Jeez!

Also if wondy has blocked superspeed physical attacks then could u please show some examples for heavens sake because i have been requesting such examples all through this thread and it seems u have purposely turned a deaf ear. [/B]

Originally posted by fangirl101
You are ridiculous. Really. Lame in your attempts. Surfer hasn't shown Fvking hand speed to block multiple incoming projectiles. There are SCANS OF FCKING WONDER WOMAN USING HER HANDS TO BLOCK MULTIPLE PROJECTILES. BLURRED GOD DAMNED HANDS. This is a HAND TO HAND FIGHT. HAND TO GOD DAMNED HAND> AND WONDY HAS BLOCKED SUPERMAN"S EFFING PUNCHES WITH HER BRACERS.

Wait, can u read? Did u read what i wrote? Obviously not. Not to say im surprised. 🤣

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Wait, can u read? Did u read what i wrote? Obviously not. Not to say im surprised. 🤣