Originally posted by PhilosophíaWhat I would like to point out aswell is that the Michael that appeared in the Spectre series, and fought Spectre can't be the same Michael that appeared in the Lucifer series because, as the story illustrates, Sandalphon captured Michael around the War in Heaven period, and only when Lucifer came back from his retirment was he finally freed. Thus, using the Lucifer series to prove that Yahweh and the main-DCU God are the same thing and so, isn't really accurate.
Just another point which shows that though the Vertigo and DCU line share many similarities, they are not exactly the same.
I feel what you're saying, but on the reals, you know that's some confusing shit E.
That aside, have the Endless appeared in the DC line,
if so, are they also a different copy?
In the cosmic department, yall have your hands filled trying to sort all that out.
I remember asking you about the Presence's family once, you replied brilliantly,
but you also used characters from Vertigo, you may have changed your view since then,
but that's one of the reasons I figured the Presence = Yahweh,
then Kevdude cleared it up nicely, and it was a rap.
I know, it really is confusing, and imo it really is better to keep the Vertigo storylines away from the main DCU until solid proof that the stories used are actually in the same continuity.
And since you brought up the Endless, it is also interesting to note that, as you know, Daniel replaced Morpheus as the ruler of the dream world, and this also affected the DCU, as Daniel appeared in a Justice League comic as the new Sandman. I see the writers from the main DCU stories as just picking a few plot-points, characters and such from the Vertigo Comics, while not really making them in the same continuity.
And yes, that list I made was taking into account the Lucifer series aswell but, until further note, I won't include those in relation to the main dcu.
Originally posted by Philosophía
I know, it really is confusing, and imo it really is better to keep the Vertigo storylines away from the main DCU until solid proof that the stories used are actually in the same continuity.And since you brought up the Endless, it is also interesting to note that, as you know, Daniel replaced Morpheus as the ruler of the dream world, and this also affected the DCU, as Daniel appeared in a Justice League comic as the new Sandman. I see the writers from the main DCU stories as just picking a few plot-points, characters and such from the Vertigo Comics, while not really making them in the same continuity.
And yes, that list I made was taking into account the Lucifer series aswell but, until further note, I won't include those in relation to the main dcu.
Originally posted by Juntai
No, because Vertigo isn't a continuity, it's just an imprint for adult themed titles.Sandman is fully entrenched in DC continuity, as when it was written, Vertigo didn't exist yet. Many titles have acknowledged Sandman.
No DC title has referenced or acknowledged material involving Lucifer that didn't occur in Sandman. Or in fact, really any of their material since Sandman.
In fact, quite the opposite, when even Editorial at DC AND Vertigo says Vertigo's titles are not canon to DC.
Originally posted by Mr Master
So Vertigo is owned by DC, and they both have identical characters,
with identical historical adaptions, as in, using the Bible with their personal twist,
yet, their not the same.I feel what you're saying, but on the reals, you know that's some confusing shit E.
That's basically what I was going to bring up. So Michael's in both DCU and Vertigo, yet because he's captured in Vertigo but beats the Spectre in DCU they must be different Michaels? DC is well known for their continuity problems, which is why they had to create Crisis on Infinite Earths in the first place. The chances of there being two separate omnipotent creatures named Michael are, what, exactly?
Countdown didn't match up with Death of the New Gods but no one has a problem with that. As for what's been shown, Michael is the same being in the DCU as in Vertigo, which makes Yahweh = The Presence.
Originally posted by occultdestroyer
TOAA = The Presence = MoM
therefore The Presence > THOTII could care less from the biased ramblings from any Marvel or DC fanboy.
This is just how things are. TOAA is an equal of The Presence, both who are vastly superior to an artifact.
Except you need to get things straight. HOTI isn't an artifact. It's TOAA's in-universe power. The Presence is DC's Supreme Being. HOTI granted Thanos the power to become the MU's Supreme Being. "Everything the Almighty was, I now am." Thus, Thanos with the HOTU also equals The Presence.
Originally posted by occultdestroyerFalse.
TOAA = The Presence = MoM
therefore The Presence > THOTII could care less from the biased ramblings from any Marvel or DC fanboy.
This is just how things are. TOAA is an equal of The Presence, both who are vastly superior to an artifact.
TOAA is a person and is above any drawing imo.
Heart>the presence because of feats.
Originally posted by quanchi112
False.TOAA is a person and is above any drawing imo.
Heart>the presence because of feats.
Thats like saying Heart > TOAA, by your standers The Presence as a represent of the real world God > TOAA a real person, extreme isn't it? 😂 We could go by that if you and MM persist...
Originally posted by EnyalusThat's basically what I was going to bring up. So Michael's in both DCU and Vertigo, yet because he's captured in Vertigo but beats the Spectre in DCU they must be different Michaels? DC is well known for their continuity problems, which is why they had to create Crisis on Infinite Earths in the first place. The chances of there being two separate omnipotent creatures named Michael are, what, exactly?
Countdown didn't match up with Death of the New Gods but no one has a problem with that. As for what's been shown, Michael is the same being in the DCU as in Vertigo, which makes Yahweh = The Presence.
Except you need to get things straight. HOTI isn't an artifact. It's TOAA's in-universe power. The Presence is DC's Supreme Being. HOTI granted Thanos the power to become the MU's Supreme Being. "Everything the Almighty was, I now am." Thus, Thanos with the HOTU also equals The Presence. [/B]
Originally posted by kevdudeFalse.
Thats like saying Heart > TOAA, by your standers The Presence as a represent of the real world God > TOAA a real person, extreme isn't it? 😂 We could go by that if you and MM persist...
TOAA shouldnt be involved in debates with fictional characters. The presence is a comic book fictional character.
By feats the heart>>>presence. unless you have any feats to prove otherwise.
Originally posted by fangirl101The writer backed up the statement. You know things change in comics dont ya fangirl. I mean dont you realize a retcon could happen at any moment and say that BB was actually just a really powerful skrull. 😉
According to Thanos. How many times has he been God and really wasn't? How could he be the almighty and not be eternal?
Originally posted by quanchi112
False.TOAA is a person and is above any drawing imo.
Heart>the presence because of feats.
The Presence doesn't operate on feats and as Kevdude said he represents the real world GOD i.e. no power in DC comics can overcome his power. What happened when Asmodel assaulted the Presence's Throne? What did he find? Nothing. He discovered too late that the Presence is in all things DC. He's basically the Judeo-Christian God represented in the DC realm.
In DC there's no image to represent the Presence because he's formless omnipotent and omnipresent. A formless, all encompassing entity he is an idea born before any writer in DC put pencil to paper to introduce him in DC fiction. HOTI is just an artifact created by TOAA, the writer and supreme authority in the Marvel U.
You just don't get it do you? The Presence is a permanent ever present fixture in the DCU, in that ficitonal universe he was there at the beginning and will always be there, he's the representation of the real world God in DCU. His power can't be taken away and he can't stop becoming God, because that's what he's always been.
Originally posted by AllanklesAgain,the presence isnt anything more than a fictional comic book character in dc comics. Thats it.
The Presence doesn't operate on feats and as Kevdude said he represents the real world GOD i.e. no power in DC comics can overcome his power. What happened when Asmodel assaulted the Presence's Throne? What did he find? Nothing. He discovered too late that the Presence is in all things DC. He's basically the Judeo-Christian God represented in the DC realm.In DC there's no image to represent the Presence because he's formless omnipotent and omnipresent. A formless, all encompassing entity he is an idea born before any writer in DC put pencil to paper to introduce him in DC fiction. HOTI is just an artifact created by TOAA, the writer and supreme authority in the Marvel U.
You just don't get it do you? The Presence is a permanent ever present fixture in the DCU, in that ficitonal universe he was there at the beginning and will always be there, he's the representation of the real world God in DCU. His power can't be taken away and he can't stop becoming God, because that's what he's always been.
Asmodel failed,but Cronus actually absorbed the presence's power,but he couldnt handle it. It can be done. 😉
The heart coul dabsorb all of the dcu. There goes the presence. The presence wouldnt even try to stop him.
Feats the heart>>presence. Unless you can prove otherwise outside your theories and interpretations.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Again,the presence isnt anything more than a fictional comic book character in dc comics. Thats it.Asmodel failed,but Cronus actually absorbed the presence's power, but he couldnt handle it . It can be done. 😉
The heart coul dabsorb all of the dcu. There goes the presence. The presence wouldnt even try to stop him.
Feats the heart>>presence. Unless you can prove otherwise outside your theories and interpretations.
Yeah so much for whatever point you might have made. TOAA is a fictional character as well sport. He's an avatar of whatever writer in the Marvel U i.e he's fictional. And you could extend that to say any character could be an avatar of the writer from a certian point of view with or without the fourth wall redundancy of the pencil's and ink elements.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Again,the presence isnt anything more than a fictional comic book character in dc comics. Thats it.Asmodel failed,but Cronus actually absorbed the presence's power,but he couldnt handle it. It can be done. 😉
The heart coul dabsorb all of the dcu. There goes the presence. The presence wouldnt even try to stop him.
Feats the heart>>presence. Unless you can prove otherwise outside your theories and interpretations.
Originally posted by quanchi112
False.TOAA shouldnt be involved in debates with fictional characters. The presence is a comic book fictional character.
By feats the heart>>>presence. unless you have any feats to prove otherwise.
By feats even Lucifer would care nothing for The Heart 😂 and your trying to compare him to The Presence 🤣 , Thanos was USED with the Heart and theres no getting around that even with all the supposed power he had! ~~~~
Originally posted by kevdudeThanos was still more powerful and had better feats than any dcu character including the presence.
By feats even Lucifer would care nothing for The Heart 😂 and your trying to compare him to The Presence 🤣 , Thanos was USED with the Heart and theres no getting around that even with all the supposed power he had! ~~~~
I dont care about lucy because he woul dget stomped by Thanos with the heart.
The presence's power can be taken as Cronus has proved. Its just there is no Thanos in the dcu therefore no one has taken it before.