To all religious people....

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
In researching BDSM (I'm a writer on the side)

I am now quite envious of you

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I've found that the description given of "subspace" and how masochists react to specific forms of pain is very much the same as that. In fact the biological and psychological reasons are assumed to be very much the same (namely endorphin rush and conditioning).

I think it is really close

although, where in the ceremonies and suspensions, I don't think the person feels or wants to feel the pain associated with the exercise, my experience wi... errrr, thoughts about, BDSM would be that it is the experience of the pain as a form of being dominated that causes the arousal.

😮

By the way....its seems to me The Roman Empire used to conquer other nations because of political reasons. It seems however when The Romans became Christian they did the same thing but for religous reasons. I don't think anybody can really prove that The Roman Christians were any worse, but they seem just as bad.

The Roman Empire conquered nations for more reasons than purely political.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
The Roman Empire conquered nations for more reasons than purely political.

Ermm greed?

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
The Roman Empire conquered nations for more reasons than purely political.

Their planeswalkers needed more mana to summon better creatures?

I guess there would be a number of legitimate reasons for conquering other nations but typically I'd bet it comes down to poltics or money.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Their planeswalkers needed more mana to summon better creatures?

I guess there would be a number of legitimate reasons for conquering other nations but typically I'd bet it comes down to poltics or money.

Well, money isn't really political is it?...What about tactical reasons? Or purely imperialist motives...

Indeed, the conquering of Egypt was obviously a method to gain control over the grain supply, while this could be seen to have a political theme. (the plebs didnt tend to riot aslong as their was enough food)

Carthage could have the political motive- revenge for Hannibal- but it was clearly far more economically and tactically motivated.

Theres also the exploits of the Imperators who were really out for themselves and invaded countries to finance their own lifestyles and political campaigns.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
Well, money isn't really political is it?...What about tactical reasons? Or purely imperialist motives...

.....anyway those aren't religous reasons.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
.....anyway those aren't religous reasons.

Was I correcting anything to do with religious reasons? No...i was simply saying your explanation of Roman expansion was insufficient.

Also, just because the Christian Rome attacked nations for "religious" reasons didn't mean their motives were not political.

Forcing a religion upon a people is a method of bringing them under your authority, the same way invading and enforcing laws onto people- lets remember at this time secularism didn't exist (in Rome). Christian Rome wasn't evangelizing- it was conquering.

Though, I would like to hear what "religious" reasons you had in mind...

Was there anything approaching a military-industrial complex in Rome?

I know that by the time of the Crusades, there was large deals of private money to be made from arming knights and the like, but did this exist even further back?

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
Was I correcting anything to do with religious reasons? No...i was simply saying your explanation of Roman expansion was insufficient.

Also, just because the Christian Rome attacked nations for "religious" reasons didn't mean their motives were not political.

Forcing a religion upon a people is a method of bringing them under your authority, the same way invading and enforcing laws onto people- lets remember at this time secularism didn't exist (in Rome). Christian Rome wasn't evangelizing- it was conquering.

Yes yes I know. 🙄

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav

Though, I would like to hear what "religious" reasons you had in mind...

Can't be bothered

Originally posted by inimalist
Was there anything approaching a military-industrial complex in Rome?

I know that by the time of the Crusades, there was large deals of private money to be made from arming knights and the like, but did this exist even further back?

Pompey in Armenia

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yes yes I know. 🙄

Can't be bothered

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav

So where did you study Classics?

Whats that got to do with anything? I just can't be assed to get into it because im mainly concerned with the differences between the pagan and Christian Roman Empire, amd my point is that you can't say either of them were worse. The whole reason why I brought this up is that Digi says that history proves his point that eventhough we would still have evil in the world without religon we would be better off. If you can't tell the difference between the two empires then it doesn't.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Whats that got to do with anything? I just can't be assed to get into it because im mainly concerned with the differences between the pagan and Christian Roman Empire, amd my point is that you can't say either of them were worse. The whole reason why I brought this up is that Digi says that history proves his point that eventhough we would still have evil in the world without religon we would be better off. If you can't tell the difference between the two empires then it doesn't.

....I was just interested, considering ancient history seems to be your specialist subject...why the hostility? Didn't mean to offend...

(Also lets not forgot the religosity of the Pre-Christian Empire, however I agree with you- if it wasn't religion being used it would be something else as an excuse for war/persecution. Be it nationalism, racism, political ideology and ofcourse greed!

Originally posted by inimalist
Was there anything approaching a military-industrial complex in Rome?

I'm not a sociologist but there was probably a military-industrial complex created the moment armies needed weapons like bows and swords. The because of the guild systems that lasted for so long only the "sword industry" could equip an army with weapons because they virtually monopolized the ability to create quality weapons.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
....I was just interested, considering ancient history seems to be your specialist subject...why the hostility? Didn't mean to offend...

Nah its not you really. Another poster on another forum pissed me off plus I got some work to do here, also I really didn't feel like discussing the points you rasied.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav

(Also lets not forgot the religosity of the Pre-Christian Empire, however I agree with you- if it wasn't religion being used it would be something else as an excuse for war/persecution. Be it nationalism, racism, political ideology and ofcourse greed!

Yeah we agree. Don't forget however my main points is you really can't say one was worse than the other, they were just as bad as each other.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I'm not a sociologist but there was probably a military-industrial complex created the moment armies needed weapons like bows and swords. The because of the guild systems that lasted for so long only the "sword industry" could equip an army with weapons because they virtually monopolized the ability to create quality weapons.

indeed

I was talking more about the industry being so powerful that it is able to influence policy, or that it is such a large industry that the nation must engage in warfare to maintain the economy

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Nah its not you really. Another poster on another forum pissed me off plus I got some work to do here, also I really didn't feel like discussing the points you rasied.

Yeah we agree. Don't forget however my main points is you really can't say one was worse than the other, they were just as bad as each other.

I never disputed that they were or where not "bad as each other",

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
I never disputed that they were or where not "bad as each other",

😂 I know..... 🙄 Im just mentioning that so nobody (Digi in particular) misunderstands the point im trying to make by bringing up The Roman Empire.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
😂 I know..... 🙄 Im just mentioning that so nobody (Digi in particular) misunderstands the point im trying to make by bringing up The Roman Empire.

Hmm, noone seems to have bothered to pick up on your point anyway...

Maybe your just to hostile to work with?

I haven't even been a part of this discussion. PZ, why the heck are you making arguments based on presuming what my reaction will be?