Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
i wasnt joking, I think you carry abit of clout amongst certain younguns here!
Yeah, you might have a point. Not that my opinions are any more brilliant than a lot of others (they aren't, and I readily defer to others on the forum occasionally), but there's been more than a couple posters over the years who have a general sense of cynicism toward religious concepts. And they seem to enjoy seeing my posts, because they see their own thoughts reflected in them. But in a more refined form, removed from some of the needless antagonism and backed a bit more with at least passable evidence/logic.
Or so I like to think. Maybe I'm just a figurehead for atheism who posts regularly, and thus a convenient target for hypothetical arguments.
srug
Originally posted by DigiMark007I'm one of them young digi-enthusiasts and I happen to be quite religious.
Yeah, you might have a point. Not that my opinions are any more brilliant than a lot of others (they aren't, and I readily defer to others on the forum occasionally), but there's been more than a couple posters over the years who have a general sense of cynicism toward religious concepts. And they seem to enjoy seeing my posts, because they see their own thoughts reflected in them. But in a more refined form, removed from some of the needless antagonism and backed a bit more with at least passable evidence/logic.Or so I like to think. Maybe I'm just a figurehead for atheism who posts regularly, and thus a convenient target for hypothetical arguments.
srug
Find a new theory.
Originally posted by Quark_666
I'm one of them young digi-enthusiasts and I happen to be quite religious.Find a new theory.
So you're saying you're an atheist-enthusiasts that just happens to believe in god? Which hand would you like to shit in before you wish in the other? Or are you saying you're an enlightened enthusiast of alternative perspectives while totally denying the thought process you profess to embrace?
Originally posted by DigiMark007
I haven't even been a part of this discussion. PZ, why the heck are you making arguments based on presuming what my reaction will be?
Wasn't mean't to offend but I just thought that I had to clarfiy exactly what I was trying to say otherwise there may be a misunderstanding.
Originally posted by Quark_666
I'm one of them young digi-enthusiasts and I happen to be quite religious.
woot
I'll take followers of any kind. We don't discriminate here in the Church of Digi
😎
Originally posted by Devil King
So you're saying you're an atheist-enthusiasts that just happens to believe in god? Which hand would you like to shit in before you wish in the other? Or are you saying you're an enlightened enthusiast of alternative perspectives while totally denying the thought process you profess to embrace?
Don't attack my followers, or I'll have you crucified for blasphemy!
313
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Wasn't mean't to offend but I just thought that I had to clarfiy exactly what I was trying to say otherwise there may be a misunderstanding.
Wasn't offended. Just confused.
the whole Judeo Christian religion was based off earlier religions and myths and stolen ideals to give the Judeo Christian religions creditability, Zoroastrianism should be the purest form of the religion, but no one has even heard of it yet people follow the diluted form of it, that is disrespectful of all that it is.you also have egyption creation myths and many other myths mixed with the so called judeo christian religion that people hold to be the true faith.
and the so called devil/satan never existed in the old testament or in the torah the Catholic church made up the concept of the devil and used the named satan from its original name Shiatan from the torah, he did not rebel as the church would have you believe but simply question all the things God did,"WHY?"take it as you will.
they also made up "hell" which is also another mistranslation of "sheol" a place where souls rest and sleep not get tortured away from the presence of God.
the whole fire and brimstone idea came from the book Dante's Inferno, as well from the book of revelations which you can choose to believe but is not truly credited it as being the world of God but just a vision of a man.
should also note that their was another Angel in the book of enoch that has also been named as the beast name Azazel who brought knowledge cosmetics and metal working,
that is why i cannot be christian knowing that the book is not truly its own religion, anyone who studies world religions and archeology knows the bible to be false and historically inaccurate and full of stolen ideas from cultures and religions, starting from the beginning of its creation myth to the end of the book.
ppl should take courses on world religions mythology and archeology and some world history. before they start using their religion as truth or factual events..but sadly more passionate ppl refuse to even open a book and glance at possibility of being wrong or question their accurancy.
This is copypasted, or at least double posted.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=303703&pagenumber=130#post11373711 has the exact same argument.
FYI
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
the whole Judeo Christian religion was based off earlier religions and myths and stolen ideals to give the Judeo Christian religions creditability, Zoroastrianism should be the purest form of the religion, but no one has even heard of it yet people follow the diluted form of it, that is disrespectful of all that it is.you also have egyption creation myths and many other myths mixed with the so called judeo christian religion that people hold to be the true faith.and the so called devil/satan never existed in the old testament or in the torah the Catholic church made up the concept of the devil and used the named satan from its original name Shiatan from the torah, he did not rebel as the church would have you believe but simply question all the things God did,"WHY?"take it as you will.
they also made up "hell" which is also another mistranslation of "sheol" a place where souls rest and sleep not get tortured away from the presence of God.the whole fire and brimstone idea came from the book Dante's Inferno, as well from the book of revelations which you can choose to believe but is not truly credited it as being the world of God but just a vision of a man.
should also note that their was another Angel in the book of enoch that has also been named as the beast name Azazel who brought knowledge cosmetics and metal working,
that is why i cannot be christian knowing that the book is not truly its own religion, anyone who studies world religions and archeology knows the bible to be false and historically inaccurate and full of stolen ideas from cultures and religions, starting from the beginning of its creation myth to the end of the book.
ppl should take courses on world religions mythology and archeology and some world history. before they start using their religion as truth or factual events..but sadly more passionate ppl refuse to even open a book and glance at possibility of being wrong or question their accurancy.
Riiiiiiiiiiiight....
evidence?
if you want evidence go to museum, or a dig site with a translator to read you old babylonian sumarian and egyption myth stories/old religion.. with carbon dating equipment of course.. or can take college courses those are always fun and intertaining when you have ppl stand up and argue archeological facts and scriptures..
or ask my god google.. just type and read but you probably won't believe so just keep searching until the evidence becomes over whelming.
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
if you want evidence go to museum, or a dig site with a translator to read you old babylonian sumarian and egyption myth stories/old religion.. with carbon dating equipment of course.. or can take college courses those are always fun and intertaining when you have ppl stand up and argue archeological facts and scriptures..or ask my god google.. just type and read but you probably won't believe so just keep searching until the evidence becomes over whelming.
Can you present some please?
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Sorry, but we wouldn't want to confuse you with facts. 😛 😂
1st one that comes to mind is the exodus.. there is no historical record or archeological evidence to suggest any of the events ever occurred. keep in mind that the egyptians were the most advance society of its time with excellent record keeping skills.
then you got zoroastrianism is the original bases of the concept of monotheism with an adversary the duality of good and evil.. it later evolved to hebrew version of god with scripture stories being removed and added to the judeo religion and claiming it as there own and laying claim to themselves as the chosen ppl.
you also have mesopotamia babylonian and sumerian creation myths who are not just similar but extremely identical to the old testament. the difference is they happen to be thousand yrs older.
the egyptian creation myths have two god brothers, one who killed the other, very similar to adam and eve caine and abel, even used the serpent symbology for the evil brother seth as a crocodile.. and was discribed as having red hair further identifying him as different..
aside of just assuming there similarity it should also be noted all these belief system predated judeo beliefs by thousands of yrs.. in that region of the world the middle east, it is safe to say they all had a great deal of influence to the judeo religion and even played a part in shaping there stories..
now all that is just old testament, if we get into modern christianity you'll see alot of greek religions have saviors demi gods with similar feats as jesus. you also had several other messiah claiming to be the son of God, each performing similar miracles..one was mention in the bible of ascending into heaven. until followers of jesus prayed for it not to happen out of fear that they may lose followers... and of course he came crashing down..
you have heracles the man-god that commoners could relate to.
could also lay claim to divine birth.
prometheus chained to a rock forced to suffer for handing man knowledge..
dionysos is another example of divine birth by a virgin goddess or mortal woman the greek myths are littered with them...
then you have the blood and flesh which was originally a greek ceremonial symbology of a war god.. wine and bread..
just about every biblical story has a similarity to others during its time of inception of its time and era.. to assume it is unique only to the bible and believe it had no influence whats so ever by other myths and religion of its time is pretty unlikely..
in order for the judeo religion to survive as it did it had to adapt and assimilate new ideas to keep and increase its followers.. which included celebrating pagan religions now called holidays as well as outsiders..
now if you get into jesus christ like i stated earlier there was more then one who was using the title of messiah son of god.. which messiah is being reverence in the bible and which miracle did he perform or is being credited to him..be aware during that time ppl were vying for political and religious power. followers of jesus were ridiculing other would be messiahs. politicians or rabbis fighting for control of the ppl.. at the end of the day ppl wrote down scriptures decades later not knowing which jesus was doing what by word of mouth and accrediting him and exxagerating stories...
Not staying here to debate, just passing through.
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
1st one that comes to mind is the exodus.. there is no historical record or archeological evidence to suggest any of the events ever occurred. keep in mind that the egyptians were the most advance society of its time with excellent record keeping skills.
similar? yes. Identical? no. Keep in mind that these people were polytheistic. the similarities could be described as either "the evolution of religion into what it is today" or "consistency between isolated races". For instance, the ark story is described in many different ancient cultures, including the indigenous peoples of south america.
you also have mesopotamia babylonian and sumerian creation myths who are not just similar but extremely identical to the old testament. the difference is they happen to be thousand yrs older.
not to be racist at all, but some Bible scholars believe that Cain traveled to Africa, And was probably the very first black man, (god marking him for his murder). I believe that this is a logical explanation.
the egyptian creation myths have two god brothers, one who killed the other, very similar to adam and eve caine and abel, even used the serpent symbology for the evil brother seth as a crocodile.. and was discribed as having red hair further identifying him as different...
safe to summarize? yes, but not safe to put as fact. The truth is, if something large and traumatic happens to the world, eventually the word is going to get around. Biblical events may very well have happened, in fact, the epic of Gilgamesh describes the one who survived the floods, and Gilgamesh even meets him, and while predating christianity by thousands of years, the epic of gilgamesh recalls many things that have been described in the old testament, from a polytheistic standpoint, of course.
aside of just assuming there similarity it should also be noted all these belief system predated judeo beliefs by thousands of yrs.. in that region of the world the middle east, it is safe to say they all had a great deal of influence to the judeo religion and even played a part in shaping there stories..
verse, please?
now all that is just old testament, if we get into modern christianity you'll see alot of greek religions have saviors demi gods with similar feats as jesus. you also had several other messiah claiming to be the son of God, each performing similar miracles..one was mention in the bible of ascending into heaven. until followers of jesus prayed for it not to happen out of fear that they may lose followers... and of course he came crashing down..
By the way, you cannot argue that jesus did not walk the earth. These similies require the belief that he didn't when totally secular roman historians wrote of his actions. He existed. The arguement is, was he the son of god, or not?
you have heracles the man-god that commoners could relate to.
could also lay claim to divine birth.
prometheus chained to a rock forced to suffer for handing man knowledge..dionysos is another example of divine birth by a virgin goddess or mortal woman the greek myths are littered with them...
then you have the blood and flesh which was originally a greek ceremonial symbology of a war god.. wine and bread..
just about every biblical story has a similarity to others during its time of inception of its time and era.. to assume it is unique only to the bible and believe it had no influence whats so ever by other myths and religion of its time is pretty unlikely..
in order for the judeo religion to survive as it did it had to adapt and assimilate new ideas to keep and increase its followers.. which included celebrating pagan religions now called holidays as well as outsiders..
now if you get into jesus christ like i stated earlier there was more then one who was using the title of messiah son of god.. which messiah is being reverence in the bible and which miracle did he perform or is being credited to him..be aware during that time ppl were vying for political and religious power. followers of jesus were ridiculing other would be messiahs. politicians or rabbis fighting for control of the ppl.. at the end of the day ppl wrote down scriptures decades later not knowing which jesus was doing what by word of mouth and accrediting him and exxagerating stories...
Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
By the way, you cannot argue that jesus did not walk the earth. These similies require the belief that he didn't when totally secular roman historians wrote of his actions. He existed. The arguement is, was he the son of god, or not?
Actually, you can. You blow those accounts way out of proportion.