Vapaad Gauntlet

Started by Faunus5 pages

Originally posted by skywalker833
If they make it past vader and marek, they will not finish. They will die at Caedus and Lumiya. Darth Caedus was second only to luke during the lotf period, and that says a lot.
Yeah. A distant second.

IMO they get to 10, not sure if they can take Jacen and Lumiya though.

EDIT: The order of this gauntlet is nuts.

Originally posted by Faunus
Yeah. A distant second.

You guys really underestimate caedus. I HATE caedus and yet I still recognize how powerful he is.

He's a distant second to LUKE...that's not anywhere NEAR close to us underestimating him

I love Caedus and recognize how powerful he is. You know who was terrible? Jacen Solo before he decided to become a Sith. (sarcasm- I'm learning)

I really did like Caedus though. He just got kinda whiny at the end.

WTF.

Caedus was a tremendous joke.

a.) The weak-ass One Sith found him LOL-inducing. Krayt would later refer to him as a "Sith lightning rod."

b.) He's a moron. Do you realize that, with the exception of his defeat of Kyle Katarn, he practically never won a fight/duel/battle?

c.) He's a moron. Yes, I realize I've already said this in the above point, but his immeasurable depth of stupidity warranted reiteration.

d.) His motivations were a joke. At least Anakin, though he didn't admit to it, knew that his actions were unjust and wrong. He just didn't care. Meanwhile, Caedus deludes himself into thinking that his actions are noble.

Vergere's philosophy? Yeah, there's some merit to that. Lumiya's blatant "I AM SO ****ING WITH YOU!" lies, on the other hand? No.

Lumiya: "Sith are galactic peacekeepers. To follow the Sith is to follow peace."

Everyone with half a brain: "Um... Palpatine, Count Dooku, Darth Maul, Darth Vader, Darth Bane, Darth Revan, Naga Sadow, Ludo Kressh, Marka Ragnos, Darth Malak, Darth Bandon, Darth Plagueis, Exar Kun, Freedon Nadd. Since when was "domination" synonymous with "peace," you dumb *****?

e.) He ordered the murder of Gilad Pellaeon. I hope Gentleman Gil is kicking the shit out of him in the afterlife.

Originally posted by Gideon
WTF.

Caedus was a tremendous joke.

a.) The weak-ass One Sith found him LOL-inducing. Krayt would later refer to him as a "Sith lightning rod."


That's Krayt letting the big dog draw the heat from them's all

b.) He's a moron. Do you realize that, with the exception of his defeat of Kyle Katarn, he practically never won a fight/duel/battle?

He fought how many, exactly, though? He DID kill Mara and the other losses were against Luke and Jaina. When he was noticeably letting her kill him

c.) He's a moron. Yes, I realize I've already said this in the above point, but his immeasurable depth of stupidity warranted reiteration.

At times, yeah

d.) His motivations were a joke. At least Anakin, though he didn't admit to it, knew that his actions were unjust and wrong. He just didn't care. Meanwhile, Caedus deludes himself into thinking that his actions are noble.

Well, he IS insane....he mainly thinks 'everything for Allana'

Vergere's philosophy? Yeah, there's some merit to that. Lumiya's blatant "I AM SO ****ING WITH YOU!" lies, on the other hand? No.

Caedus knows Lumiya is utterly dishonest, but her explanation of Vergere is true. Jacen doesn't trust Lumiya fully. He even tries to kill her on a few occasions

Lumiya: "Sith are galactic peacekeepers. To follow the Sith is to follow peace."

Everyone with half a brain: "Um... Palpatine, Count Dooku, Darth Maul, Darth Vader, Darth Bane, Darth Revan, Naga Sadow, Ludo Kressh, Marka Ragnos, Darth Malak, Darth Bandon, Darth Plagueis, Exar Kun, Freedon Nadd. Since when was "domination" synonymous with "peace," you dumb *****?


Jacen's knowledge of Sith history is limited to 'Gramps and Palps.' and maaaaybe a bit on Exar Kun. Contrast to Vectivus...Lumiya said the men who are evil as Sith were dark and corrupt before that, opposed to the just, noble Vectivus.
Jacen's vision of a galaxy consumed by war if Lumiya died, forcing him to kill Luke didn't help either

e.) He ordered the murder of Gilad Pellaeon. I hope Gentleman Gil is kicking the shit out of him in the afterlife.

Blame THAT on Tahiri.

Originally posted by Gideon
WTF.

Caedus was a tremendous joke.

As a thinking, fleshed out character, perhaps. As a tank- a malevolently evil force? I thought he filled the role of misguided ****tard quite well.
Originally posted by Gideon

a.) The weak-ass One Sith found him LOL-inducing. Krayt would later refer to him as a "Sith lightning rod."
Good to know. I really never knew that.
Originally posted by Gideon

b.) He's a moron. Do you realize that, with the exception of his defeat of Kyle Katarn, he practically never won a fight/duel/battle?

Good to know. I'd never thought of it that way. This doesn't actually provide support for the assertion that 'he's a moron', however much I agree with you.
Originally posted by Gideon

c.) He's a moron. Yes, I realize I've already said this in the above point, but his immeasurable depth of stupidity warranted reiteration.

Example: Killing the bounty hunter with the force. Ex. 2: burning Kashyyk. He really wasn't unintelligent, he was just dumb.
Originally posted by Gideon

d.) His motivations were a joke. At least Anakin, though he didn't admit to it, knew that his actions were unjust and wrong. He just didn't care. Meanwhile, Caedus deludes himself into thinking that his actions are noble.

Yeah...
Originally posted by Gideon

Vergere's philosophy? Yeah, there's some merit to that. Lumiya's blatant "I AM SO ****ING WITH YOU!" lies, on the other hand? No.

She reminds me of a wannabe Kreia.
Originally posted by Gideon

Lumiya: "Sith are galactic peacekeepers. To follow the Sith is to follow peace."

That's BS.
Originally posted by Gideon

Everyone with half a brain: "Um... Palpatine, Count Dooku, Darth Maul, Darth Vader, Darth Bane, Darth Revan, Naga Sadow, Ludo Kressh, Marka Ragnos, Darth Malak, Darth Bandon, Darth Plagueis, Exar Kun, Freedon Nadd. Since when was "domination" synonymous with "peace," you dumb *****?

That way we can dominate them into getting along. Just like the USA!
Originally posted by Gideon

e.) He ordered the murder of Gilad Pellaeon. I hope Gentleman Gil is kicking the shit out of him in the afterlife.


He's never going to live that down, is he? Really- you order the unneeded murder of one totally Badass character, and everyone hates you for life...

Caedus wasn't great. He wasn't clever, sympathetic, or captivating. He was a portable tank, capable of challenging DBZ Luke when Luke was holding back, for at least the first 8 books. Then he just gets tooled. I really wanted to like it. I just couldn't. Now I'm using selective memory to shelter my psyche from the trauma of the waste of my favorite next-generation Jedi.

Originally posted by Gideon
WTF.

Caedus was a tremendous joke.

a.) The weak-ass One Sith found him LOL-inducing. Krayt would later refer to him as a "Sith lightning rod."

b.) He's a moron. Do you realize that, with the exception of his defeat of Kyle Katarn, he practically never won a fight/duel/battle?

c.) He's a moron. Yes, I realize I've already said this in the above point, but his immeasurable depth of stupidity warranted reiteration.

d.) His motivations were a joke. At least Anakin, though he didn't admit to it, knew that his actions were unjust and wrong. He just didn't care. Meanwhile, Caedus deludes himself into thinking that his actions are noble.

Vergere's philosophy? Yeah, there's some merit to that. Lumiya's blatant "I AM SO ****ING WITH YOU!" lies, on the other hand? No.

Lumiya: "Sith are galactic peacekeepers. To follow the Sith is to follow peace."

Everyone with half a brain: "Um... Palpatine, Count Dooku, Darth Maul, Darth Vader, Darth Bane, Darth Revan, Naga Sadow, Ludo Kressh, Marka Ragnos, Darth Malak, Darth Bandon, Darth Plagueis, Exar Kun, Freedon Nadd. Since when was "domination" synonymous with "peace," you dumb *****?

e.) He ordered the murder of Gilad Pellaeon. I hope Gentleman Gil is kicking the shit out of him in the afterlife.

QFT Brilliant Post. it should be pasted into every single Caedus thread in the forum.

Ah, finally I find people who hate Caedus. Nice to meet you.

don't forget, he lost to Jaina in the end. Unfair as the fight was, he lost to jaina. That means probably any number of jedi masters could have defeated him too. Mara almost did. Kyle lost, but was admittedly distracted by the combat he was directing around him, and pulling a speeder into Kyle that Kyle didn't even know was there PROBABLY shouldn't hold up under the analysis of this forum. (as i've come to understand it recently)

Kyp Durron vs. Caedus would be pretty even, IMO. And i would pick Kyp. (cause who is gonna sit and argue that jaina >Kyp?)

Caedus was ready to slice Kyle's limbs off when Kolir saved him. Caedus was solidly better than Kyle.

And Jacen was not even fighting back with Jaina most of the time. He let her kill him.

I absolutely hate caedus, and wish i could agree with you Gideon, but I can't. If you've read Inferno you would know that the Luke vs Caedus fight was pretty close.

Originally posted by skywalker833
I absolutely hate caedus, and wish i could agree with you Gideon, but I can't. If you've read Inferno you would know that the Luke vs Caedus fight was pretty close.

it really wasn't. Have you read Jacen's take on that fight? I've posted it before. I'll post it again if i can find it, but it is made crystal clear that Luke owned Caedus. You have to remember, the fact that Luke even HAD that duel with Caedus is because he totally owned caedus into believing he had died.
Also, surely you have read the scenario where Luke holds caedus in his chair, completely unable to move, right? that makes them sound really close...
Finally: You read Invincible? If you read invincible you know exactly how much that already impressive gap between luke and caedus grew when it describes the facts that even Caedus's vision of the future, the one thing that had been driving him from TRAITOR were put in his head by luke.
He never did figure out that luke wasn't even in the room in the duel in which he lost his arm. he thought luke took that arm off until he died. not to mention the times that he thought a fleet was chasing him when it was a vision from Luke.

Luke humiliated Jacen over and over and over. Distant second is being plenty generous.

Originally posted by truejedi
don't forget, he lost to Jaina in the end. Unfair as the fight was, he lost to jaina. That means probably any number of jedi masters could have defeated him too.

Did you read the book? She sniped his arm in their first duel while he was fighting the mandos then he let her take the arm(which was just hanging there and was useless) in that duel, so even one handed he almost killed her in their first duel(and second for that matter) and not to mention the role Luke played in that duel screwing with Caedus's mind. Then in the second duel she stabbed in the back (through the stomach) while hiding in the force before the duel even began. This is a good passage from the begining of their second duel.

A lightsaber snap-hissed to life, and suddenly Caedus felt as though he were going to vomit fire.

The invisible fist of a Force blast slammed Jaina in the chest and sent her flying back, her breath groaning from her lungs and her lightsaber hissing free of Caedus's stomach. From the fight on Nickel One, she had learned the dangers of letting her head snap back on impact. She tucked her chin, then fought to hold it there as she struck the durasteel wall on the far side of the corridor.

Jaina almost wished that she had been knocked unconscious. Stinging needle-thrusts of pain zippered down her spine as her vertebrae rocked beneath the impact, and the synthmesh supporting her half-healed ribs came apart in a single agonizing pop. She dropped to the floor, fighting to keep her pain from carrying her down into numb oblivion, gazing back to where she had surprised Caedus:where Caedus still stood in the doorway, his mouth gaping in surprise, with a thumb-sized scorch hole just below his ribs. But he was still standing.

Jaina's pain-clouded mind did not understand how he could take a lightsaber through the gut and do that. . Why didn't Caedus just lie down and die like most people? Didn't he understand she was trying to do him a favor?

And he still nearly killed her despite all of that.

I would hope that a fully rested jedi master (like Katarn if he was 100%) could win those advantages, hell I'm not even sure he was fully healed from the duel with Luke(he wasn't during katarn's 4v1 ambush), the duel against the 4 jedi ( I believe he got hit with a blaster bolt at one point), and the injury he got from the mando when he went to rescue Tahiri.

yeah, you make a good point about that. neither of the fights with Jaina were fair. Which is probably a good thing, or we would have to be including Jaina as being as strong as Darth Vader too.

I hate agreeing with Gideon on anything, but he's right. Caedus sucked as a character. The only thing he had going for him was that he was stronger than OT Vader, by a mysterious amount. Then again, so was SK.

I'm always right. That's why it's simply stupid to argue with me.

Originally posted by Gideon
I'm always right. That's why it's simply stupid to argue with me.

Then I'm glad you agreed that Maul would have a good chance at besting Dooku in a duel. 😉

I never denied it. In fact, I've supported that idea far before you ever contaminated this forum with your inferiority.

I just disagreed with your insinuations that he's equal to or better than Dooku. Because he's not.