Originally posted by Lightsnake
In almost any instance of Ragnos vs. any individual, or his individual power, or his dueling ability, or him vs. a multitude of people people-let us not forget the 'Ragnos vs. Palpatine, Bane and Exar Kun' thread, you were throwing support in behind the Antediluvians. Or Exar vs. the PT Jedi council. You won't be accusing me of anything or bringing up the past, Glentract.And where were they 'the best' of the Jedi then? Why does that make them on par or superior to people like Depa and Mace? Farfalla was slaughtered by Bane one on one, for instance.
Is there anything to support your claim beyond vague status of the time that has no bearing on two of the best warriors of a later time?
I would still put Ragnos in probably the top five. If I said that he would take Exar, Palpatine, and Bane, that was probably out of ignorance of the time.
They were the best of that periods Jedi because they led the Army of the Light. Hoth was the number one guy and after he was killed by the thought bomb Farfalla then took his place. I don't think that Depa or Mace could take Bane either. He's simply above any of them. And Farfalla was pretty certainly a fair bit below Hoth.
Mainly, these Jedi were actually warriors, not peacekeepers. They had real battle experience with other lightsaber users on a regular pretty regular basis. We can't completely compare them in all areas because we simply don't have enough info to do that with Farfalla and Hoth.
BTW, I think Cadues was a decent character. At least we got to get inside his head better than basically any other Sith. And he died honorably.
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
[B]I would still put Ragnos in probably the top five. If I said that he would take Exar, Palpatine, and Bane, that was probably out of ignorance of the time.They were the best of that periods Jedi because they led the Army of the Light. Hoth was the number one guy and after he was killed by the thought bomb Farfalla then took his place.
I don't think that Depa or Mace could take Bane either. He's simply above any of them. And Farfalla was pretty certainly a fair bit below Hoth.
Mainly, these Jedi were actually warriors, not peacekeepers.
They had real battle experience with other lightsaber users on a regular pretty regular basis.
We can't completely compare them in all areas because we simply don't have enough info to do that with Farfalla and Hoth.
Originally posted by LightsnakeDepa? Maybe not. Msce? Would certainly be capable of taking on Bane and potentially killing him. All of Bane's advantages: his pure strength, his unique saber, his knowledge of his opponents' forms? Nullified. Mace is one of the best duelists who ever lived. He was able to take on Palpaitne, a Sith more powerful than Bane, for one.
Why should we place them even close to Mace or Depa with no evidence behind it?
QFT I don't believe you can compare the Ruusan period with the PT. the PT is called the time of the greatest strength by the jedi. The ruusan period... never referenced either way.
Keep in mind, the very essence of Bane's order puts him, the most powerful force user of the time, at the very BOTTOM of the sith scale.
Likely? No. possible? most definitely.
Originally posted by truejediNo, it isn't. It's referred to as the golden age of the Jedi in comparison to the OT.
QFT I don't believe you can compare the Ruusan period with the PT. the PT is called the time of the greatest strength by the jedi.
The ruusan period... never referenced either way.It's kind of a given that Jedi who grow up fighting the last battles of a thousand-year war are more battle-hardened than Jedi that study the "Diplomacy Form" like Johun Othone and act as peace-keepers, not soldiers.
Keep in mind, the very essence of Bane's order puts him, the most powerful force user of the time, at the very BOTTOM of the sith scale.Are you trying to come across as completely retarded? I'd read your earlier posts with the ABC arguments and hoped dearly that it was all some twisted, completely humorless joke, but apparently you've lost it.
Likely? No. possible? most definitely.
@LS:
Doesn't PoD have Bane learning all of Kas'im's techniques and tactics during their nightly sparring sessions (yes, I know it sounds weird)? I'd check on the Russian site, but PoD doesn't work.
Originally posted by Faunus
No, it isn't. It's referred to as the golden age of the Jedi in comparison to the OT.It's kind of a given that Jedi who grow up fighting the last battles of a thousand-year war are more battle-hardened than Jedi that study the "Diplomacy Form" like Johun Othone and act as peace-keepers, not soldiers.
Are you trying to come across as completely retarded? I'd read your earlier posts with the ABC arguments and hoped dearly that it was all some twisted, completely humorless joke, but apparently you've lost it.
@LS:
Doesn't PoD have Bane learning all of Kas'im's techniques and tactics during their nightly sparring sessions (yes, I know it sounds weird)? I'd check on the Russian site, but PoD doesn't work.
The outcome was inevitable. Bane was simply too strong in the Force. Only some unexpected maneuver could save Kas'im, but they had fought too many times in the past for him to surprise Bane now. Over the course of his training Bane had seen every possible sequence, series, move, and trick with the double-bladed lightsaber, and he knew how to counter and nullify them all.
He knew all the moves of Kas'im with a DBL, but a single or double blade with Kas'im's skill'd be a different story and there's nothing I find about Bane knowing the ins and outs of every single form
Originally posted by LightsnakeThat might've been it. My mistake.
I have a copy of the book saved in word. Want it for future reference?
Here's the full quote:[B]The outcome was inevitable. Bane was simply too strong in the Force. Only some unexpected maneuver could save Kas'im, but they had fought too many times in the past for him to surprise Bane now. Over the course of his training Bane had seen every possible sequence, series, move, and trick with the double-bladed lightsaber, and he knew how to counter and nullify them all.
He knew all the moves of Kas'im with a DBL, but a single or double blade with Kas'im's skill'd be a different story and there's nothing I find about Bane knowing the ins and outs of every single form [/B]
Originally posted by Faunus
No, it isn't. It's referred to as the golden age of the Jedi in comparison to the OT.
Haven't heard that. All I recall is that it was labelled the "prime of the Jedi," not once do I recall having seen or heard that it was conditioned on a relative comparison to the original trilogy.
Especially since, to Lucas, you don't see a "real Jedi" throughout the entirety of the OT. Nothing to compare the OT to the PT.
Originally posted by GideonI'm going by what Ush has said.
Haven't heard that. All I recall is that it was labelled the "prime of the Jedi," not once do I recall having seen or heard that it was conditioned on a relative comparison to the original trilogy.Especially since, to Lucas, you don't see a "real Jedi" throughout the entirety of the OT. Nothing to compare the OT to the PT.
Clearly, hearsay sucks.
Originally posted by Faunus
No, it isn't. It's referred to as the golden age of the Jedi in comparison to the OT.
actually... no its not that i know of. Can you give me a source?
Are you trying to come across as completely retarded? I'd read your earlier posts with the ABC arguments and hoped dearly that it was all some twisted, completely humorless joke, but apparently you've lost it.
believe it or not, no. Now, i was ready to debate your point with you here, but reading the paragraph above that i was ready to debate, i notice you didn't actually make a point.... so too bad, i can't do that.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
There weren't Sith left to fight at the end. Do these Jedi have ANY feats or backing placing them even close to powerhouses like Mace and Depa?
No Sith left? What about the entire Brotherhood of Darkness?
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Depa? Maybe not. Msce? Would certainly be capable of taking on Bane and potentially killing him. All of Bane's advantages: his pure strength, his unique saber, his knowledge of his opponents' forms? Nullified. Mace is one of the best duelists who ever lived. He was able to take on Palpaitne, a Sith more powerful than Bane, for one.
This is were the pivotal disagreement is. I have never agreed with the idea that Sidious was the most powerful Sith who had lived up to that point. He most certainly BECAME the most powerful, but as of ROTS he was far from the top. Bane has shown power far beyond was Mace or Sidious has demonstrated.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Those 'peacekeepers' were still described by GL as the 'Prime' of the Jedi when he was speaking about combat. Mace was a warrior through and through, too.
Mace lacked real lightsaber against lightsaber experience. Hoth and Farfalla have that benefit. The peacekeepers were NEVER described as the best Jedi in combat. Since combat was never the Jedi's primary role, the 'prime' of the Jedi wouldn't automatically be the best combatants ever.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
And? This makes them better...how? Farfalla's feats can be summed up with "killed a dying Kopecz, jobbed to Bane."
So take a solider who has trained in combat for years and then take another who has actual combat experience on multiple occasions. Throw the two into a fight with each other and the one with more experience in that field will usually win. The experience of having actual combat is a major advantage.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
We have Mace and Depa as incredible warriors and nothing of the sort for Farfalla and Hoth. Why should we place them even close to Mace or Depa with no evidence behind it?
We can put them way up there because they were the best of a group of Jedi who actually lived in a time when fighting Sith was common.