Originally posted by kotorfan
well what if he wanted to land.. and take off again. I agree it would take some time but it shouldn't take that much time cuz he would never get where he wanted to go..
This is the single most assinine, ignorant and pathetic thing I've heard/seen through my entirely terrible day.
1. Capital ships don't land.
2. N. has little need to land anyway.
3. The ravager has snub fighters which can land.
Everything about this thought was simply wrong. I'm sorry, because I know I'm projecting, but this was just bad.
Originally posted by kotorfanI'm sorry, I don't speak Nonsense.
well what if he wanted to land.. and take off again. I agree it would take some time but it shouldn't take that much time cuz he would never get where he wanted to go..
And Schwarz's point on it taking time to power up was the basis of my previous argument that Vader could perhaps beat Nihilus. Until it's said how long Nihilus takes to do what he does, then it's actually just plain stupid to include him in any Vs.
Re: REALLY!!??!?!?!?!?
Originally posted by Red NemesisWhen compared with lifting the Ravager it is simple. To raise a kilometer long ship while keeping its structural integrity sound, off of a planet requires both power (to achieve escape velocity) and skill (to keep the ship from tearing itself apart) FAR beyond what Vader has shown. His most impressive feat is that he crushed a house, the equivalent of a tin can. To implode the house he had to contend with the innate crystalline intermolecular structure of durasteel. N. had to defy gravity.
Ok listen. Vader crushing a large hut, and Nihilus lifting the Ravager, are both extremely hard force feats. Crushing a cardboard box is very simple for a regular human to do, but lifting several tons of cardboard is impossible even for the strongest human. That example makes Vader's feat seem very weak.
For one thing, it isn't in his character. No matter how useful the storms would have been (actually, their utility is rather dubious) it is a dark side technique. One had to focus on anger and hate- definitely outside of Luke's toolbox. You might as well ask why Yoda didn't spam force lightning in every battle.
What difference does it make. It is still something Luke has never done.
This is a false analogy. (Ironically, you are using a false analogy to attack a valid one. I laughed.) Vader and N. are using the same technique, namely telekinesis. N. has shown better mastery of the skill and more power behind it. Sidious and Luke are like apples and oranges. They are opperating under very different methodologies. Vader and N. can be compared in regards to their showings with the same technique.
Nihilus has shown a better example of raw power, not skill.
You are failing at it.
Not quite.
It was either lift the ship, or stay there and rot.
So it was a do or die situation. Vader was in another such "do or die" situation during his duel with Starkiller. He even had the advantage of adrenaline to fuel his Force use and fighting. N. did not have that benefit, and still outperformed him.
Again, how is that the same situation? Vader was in battle; Nihilus was trying to get off world, which the only way was to lift Ravager. Why would Vader need to lift a ship in a battle with Starkiller?
In both cases the life and future of the Sith Lord was at stake.
And different tactics were needed in different situations. Vader never needed to lift a ship.
Wasn't his death because of a FS he summoned during his duel with Luke? (Going by TOW, which [i]is based on the comic. LS could help here.)
It took the combined efforts of Luke, Leia, and the unborn child, to envolope Sidious in the power of the lightside and cut him off his power.
That is a different argument, but keep in mind that
a. Yoda does not, as a matter of principle, use the Force as a weapon.
b. Yoda at this point was on the defensive, and Sidious held the high ground.Do you think that Yoda, who levitated an X-Wing, could not levitate 3 pods at once?
That was kinda my point. Yoda has demonstrated more raw power than Sidious as far as TK, but could not overcome him in it in battle.
a) Why not? We see him use the force as a weapon all the time, like when he force threw Sidious over the desk, or when he threw the pod back at Sidious.
b) It looked more to me that Sidious was on the defensive. Yoda was the one that kept coming at Sidious, and Sidious was trying to keep him away. Besides what does high ground have to do with TK?
In regards to skill in TK, very possibly. His showing is greater than any of Palpatine's TK showings that I know of.
TK was Vader's strongest point. We never see Vader do much of anything besides casually using TK. So if Nihilus is far greater than Vader in Vader's greatest area, that would make Nihilus far greater than Vader as far as power goes. Seeing how Vader was only 20% lower than Sidious, i don't see how Nihilus is far more powerful.
@ Lucien:
You are going to try and insult me, when you do nothing on these threads, but make stupid and unfunny sarcastic jokes. My guess is you don't get enough attention or laughs in public, so you use websites so your jokes can be heard, and probably imagine the people on the other side of the computer are laughing.
Sids i'm pretty sure i speak for everyone: repeating the same thing over and over is getting tiresome. because you just wish to cling to the idiotic notion that vader's crushing of hut is as awe inspiring as nihilus lifting a 1200 meter star ship.
Ok listen. Vader crushing a large hut, and Nihilus lifting the Ravager, are both extremely hard force feats. Crushing a cardboard box is very simple for a regular human to do, but lifting several tons of cardboard is impossible even for the strongest human. That example makes Vader's feat seem very weak.
ok, since you seem to be unable to understand red's example.i'll try to make it simple.
he was never comparing it to a card board box 🙄 the card board box is an EXAMPLE of the hut. he was comparing crushing a cardboad box(hut) to lifting a dumbell(ravager) crushing a cardbox is EASIER compared to lifting a dumbell....a cardboard box has less mass and weight compared to a dumbell.
in the same sense. smashing a hut is far fricking easier when compared to lifting a hunded thousand ton battleship out of the gravitational pull of a planet. do you understand gravitational pull? obviously not.otherwise you would realize how ridiculous your argument is.
What difference does it make. It is still something Luke has never done.
it makes a huge difference. luke is not a dark sider,naturally he has never used it.why would luke use a dark side power? your logic is illogical.
Nihilus has shown a better example of raw power, not skill.
moving a massive 1200 meter ship out of a planet's gravitational pull isn't great skill. WTF.
Again, how is that the same situation? Vader was in battle; Nihilus was trying to get off world, which the only way was to lift Ravager. Why would Vader need to lift a ship in a battle with Starkiller?
the point is both were desperate situations.use your head son.
You are going to try and insult me, when you do nothing on these threads, but make stupid and unfunny sarcastic jokes. My guess is you don't get enough attention or laughs in public, so you use websites so your jokes can be heard, and probably imagine the people on the other side of the computer are laughing.
what the hell does that have to do with anything? he's probably insulting you because you refuse to admit defeat and continue with your nonsensical crap. i can't say it isn't tempting.
Originally posted by sigma-ct42
Sids i'm pretty sure i speak for everyone: repeating the same thing over and over is getting tiresome. because you just wish to cling to the idiotic notion that vader's crushing of hut is as awe inspiring as nihilus lifting a 1200 meter star ship.
Coming from someone who keeps repeating his arguements.
ok, since you seem to be unable to understand red's example.i'll try to make it simple.he was never comparing it to a card board box 🙄 the card board box is an [B]EXAMPLE of the hut. he was comparing crushing a cardboad box(hut) to lifting a dumbell(ravager) crushing a cardbox is EASIER compared to lifting a dumbell....a cardboard box has less mass and weight compared to a dumbell.
I know where he is trying to get at, but he used a poor example. Maybe the hut has way less weight than the ravager, but if the hut was as strong as durasteel the mass would be pretty much the same.
Again, i was not only comparing the hut alone to the feat with the ravager. I was given an example, showing that Vader does not lack in raw power.
I was just using your guys examples. I can lift 100 pounds easy over my head, but i can't crush a ten pound dumbbell, even though the ten pound dumbbell is a lot lighter. I was the one using the dumbbel example not Faunus or Red. That shows you are not paying attention.
in the same sense. smashing a hut is far fricking easier when compared to lifting a hunded thousand ton battleship out of the gravitational pull of a planet. do you understand gravitational pull? obviously not.otherwise you would realize how ridiculous your argument is.Coming from someone who is using false claims about SW.
it makes a huge difference. luke is not a dark sider,naturally he has never used it.why would luke use a dark side power? your logic is illogical.
And your comments on SW is simply wrong. Have you even read DE? If so you would see how wrong your comment was.
Tell you what leave the arguement to Faunus, or even Red. You do not seem to have a lot of knowledge on EU.
moving a massive 1200 meter ship out of a planet's gravitational pull isn't great skill. WTF.
Who said it didn't take skill? It is more raw power than skill though. It doesn't take a lot skill to lift something. Say someone benched 500 pounds. Would it take a lot of skill to bench it, or a lot of raw power? It don't matter how skillful you are at lifting, if you don't have the raw power, you won't lift anything extremely heavy.
the point is both were desperate situations.use your head son.That required different tactics. Nihilus's situation required lifting a ship. Vader's situatiion didn't.
Use YOUR head.
what the hell does that have to do with anything? [/B]It was a personal comment at Lucien. But i wouldn't expect you to know that, because it would require paying attention and reading.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66Good one.
Coming from someone who keeps repeating his arguements.
I know where he is trying to get at, but he used a poor example. Maybe the hut has way less weight than the ravager, but if the hut was as strong as durasteel the mass would be pretty much the same.Holy. Shit. The laws of physics are not with you.
Again, i was not only comparing the hut alone to the feat with the ravager. I was given an example, showing that Vader does not lack in raw power.No one said he "lacks in raw power," the point is that his raw power doesn't compare to Nihilus's based on feats.
I was just using your guys examples. I can lift 100 pounds easy over my head, but i can't crush a ten pound dumbbell, even though the ten pound dumbbell is a lot lighter.Except that a.) the weight doesn't affect how hard something is to crush, and b.) the Ravager is considerably more than ten times the weight of the hut, anyway.
I was the one using the dumbbel example not Faunus or Red. That shows you are not paying attention.It was a shitty, shitty example.
Coming from someone who is using false claims about SW.Nice job completely ignoring the point.
And lying.
And your comments on SW is simply wrong. Have you even read DE? If so you would see how wrong your comment was.Your example was, again, retarded. Palpatine did something amazing with a technique that Luke DOES NOT KNOW. Nihilus did something amazing with a technique that Vader DOES know.
Tell you what leave the arguement to Faunus, or even Red. You do not seem to have a lot of knowledge on EU.You do not seem to have any knowledge on physics. Or logic.
Who said it didn't take skill? It is more raw power than skill though. It doesn't take a lot skill to lift something. Say someone benched 500 pounds. Would it take a lot of skill to bench it, or a lot of raw power? It don't matter how skillful you are at lifting, if you don't have the raw power, you won't lift anything extremely heavy.Yet another shitty example.
And if you don't have skill, you can't use your raw power to its fullest. See Anakin Skywalker.
That required different tactics. Nihilus's situation required lifting a ship. Vader's situatiion didn't.You. Are. RETARDED. I really think you're the densest creature I've ever "debated" with online.
Use YOUR head.*slow clap*
It was a personal comment at Lucien. But i wouldn't expect you to know that, because it would require paying attention and reading.Which you are not doing.
Coming from someone who keeps repeating his arguements.
because you seem to have trouble understanding.
I know where he is trying to get at, but he used a poor example. Maybe the hut has way less weight than the ravager, but if the hut was as strong as durasteel the mass would be pretty much the same.
no they wouldn't,not even close. even if the hut is as strong as the star ship it's no where near it's size in mass.
I was just using your guys examples. I can lift 100 pounds easy over my head, but i can't crush a ten pound dumbbell, even though the ten pound dumbbell is a lot lighter. I
talking to you is giving me a head ache.
was the one using the dumbbel example not Faunus or Red. That shows you are not paying attention.
well then that's my mistake.
Coming from someone who is using false claims about SW.
i wasn't not talking about star wars moron. i was TALKING ABOUT PHYSICS.the ones which nihilus had to defy in order to move the ship?
It doesn't take a lot skill to lift something. Say someone benched 500 pounds. Would it take a lot of skill to bench it, or a lot of raw power? It don't matter how skillful you are at lifting, if you don't have the raw power, you won't lift anything extremely heavy.
it does take alot of skill to fight against the gravitational pull of a planet. what the hell is wrong with you? you seem to think i'm talking about lifting a ship off a planet's surface. the ravager from what i remember was caught in malachor's orbit.
Who said it didn't take skill? It is more raw power than skill though.
your claim is vader has shown more skill with tk then nihilus.
That required different tactics. Nihilus's situation required lifting a ship. Vader's situatiion didn't.Use YOUR head.
actually that's a good idea sids. let me find a wall and bang it against it.
It was a personal comment at Lucien. But i wouldn't expect you to know that, because it would require paying attention and reading.
i know it's a personal comment. the point is use a pm.
read this before posting anymore thrash sidious. much ignorance i sense in you.
Seriously, Sids, go take a nap.
yes do us all a favor.
Originally posted by Faunus
Good one.
Holy.Shit.The laws of physics are not with you.And knowledge is not with you.
No one said he "lacks in raw power," the point is that his raw power doesn't compare to Nihilus's based on feats.Good gracious isn't that what i said? Nihilus has shown us a greater example of raw power.
Except that a.) the [i]weight doesn't affect how hard something is to crush, and b.) the Ravager is considerably more than ten times the weight of the hut, anyway.Exactly what i am saying. Vader did not lift the hut, he crushed it.
And 500 hundred pound is way over 10 times the weight of a 10 pound dumbbell. Idiot.
It was a shitty, shitty example.You never did any better.
Nice job completely ignoring the point.
And you are completely missing it.
And lying.About?
Your example was, again, retarded. Palpatine did something amazing with a technique that Luke DOES NOT KNOW. Nihilus did something amazing with a technique that Vader DOES know.Luke did study the book of anger. Even if Luke knew nothing about the technique, he is still a master of the force, just like Palpatine was. Luke's mastery has never demonstrated anything that compare to the force storm, so Sidious's mastery must be greater. Luke also never shown us anything with raw power that matches Sidious.
You do not seem to have any knowledge on physics. Or logic.Wow look who is talking.
Yet another shitty example.Take a look at your own.
And if you don't have skill, you can't use your raw power to its fullest. See Anakin Skywalker.I take it you know nothing about fighting.
My best friend is someone i can not compete with as far as raw power. His punches are a lot harder than mine. I have way more skill than he does. I always overcome him in boxing, because his punches are kind of sloppy, whereas mine are more accurate and precise. More skill would not help my friend release more raw power, but it would help him use his raw power in ways he couldn't.
You. Are. [b]RETARDED. I really think you're the densest creature I've ever "debated" with online.Another mutual feeling i have towards you.
*slow clap*Not too fast now.
Which you are not doing. [/B][/QUOTE] Niether was he.
Seriously, Sids, go take a nap.Go pop a pill and calm your nerves.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
And knowledge is not with you.Good gracious isn't that what i said? Nihilus has shown us a greater example of raw power.
Exactly what i am saying. Vader did not lift the hut, he crushed it.
And 500 hundred pound is way over 10 times the weight of a 10 pound dumbbell. Idiot.
You never did any better.
And you are completely missing it.
About?
Luke did study the book of anger. Even if Luke knew nothing about the technique, he is still a master of the force, just like Palpatine was. Lukme's mastery has never demonstrated anything that compare to the force storm, so Sidious's mastery must be greater. Luke also never shown us anything with raw power that matches Sidious.
Wow look who is talking.
Take a look at your own.
I take it you know nothing about fighting.
My best friend is someone i can not compete with as far as raw power. His punches are a lot harder than mine. I have way more skill than he does. I always overcome him in boxing, because his punches are kind of sloppy, whereas mine are more accurate and precise. More skill would not help my friend release more raw power, but it would help him use his raw power in ways he couldn't.
Another mutual feeling i have towards you.
Not too fast now.
Which you are not doing.
*slams head against steel reinforced wall*
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66...
And knowledge is not with you.
Good gracious isn't that what i said? Nihilus has shown us a greater example of raw power.And it's not only an example of raw power. Vader's greatest feat was an application of raw power focused by skill. So was Nihilus's.
Exactly what i am saying. Vader did not lift the hut, he crushed it.And...?
And 500 hundred pound is way over 10 times the weight of a 10 pound dumbbell. Idiot.
I was just using your guys examples. I can lift 100 pounds easy over my head, but i can't crush a ten pound dumbbell, even though the ten pound dumbbell is a lot lighter.
You never did any better.Yes I did.
And you are completely missing it.Do you plan on actually addressing any of my points?
Oh wait, I know: "do you plan on talking any of mine i suck at math
About?Read what I posted. Then read what I responded to.
Luke did study the book of anger. Even if Luke knew nothing about the technique, he is still a master of the force, just like Palpatine was. Luke's mastery has never demonstrated anything that compare to the force storm, so Sidious's mastery must be greater.Sidious's mastery is greater.
This example still sucks, btw.
Luke also never shown us anything with raw power that matches Sidious.He tore down a castle after rebuilding it telekinetically, stopped a Force-push that was powered by the combined Force-potential of an entire species, and "with no apparent effort" pinned Jacen Solo - a man who was more powerful than Vader - to a chair.
Wow look who is talking.Wow, go back to school.
Take a look at your own.Again, mine are awesome.
I take it you know nothing about fighting.Because fighting is analogous to lifting or crushing things?
Stop being stupid.
My best friend is someone i can not compete with as far as raw power. His punches are a lot harder than mine. I have way more skill than he does. I always overcome him in boxing, because his punches are kind of sloppy, whereas mine are more accurate and precise. More skill would not help my friend release more raw power, but it would help him use his raw power in ways he couldn't.Irrelevant, and rather stupid.
Another mutual feeling i have towards you.Yeah...
Not too fast now.You're not witty. You're embarrassing.
Niether was he.He was. You aren't.
And you can thank for me correcting your butchery of the quote function.
Go pop a pill and calm your nerves.Another post as stupid as this one and I swear I'll PM REX. This crossed the line a page ago, but it's quickly becoming tiresome rather than amusing.
You know what I just realized? The durasteel hut was hollow. It would be no more difficult to destroy it than to crush multiple doors at once, and probably easier. This feat just lost all traces of prestige that it once had. Instead of "crushing a 100 lb. dumbell" it would be better to say "crushing a hollow plastic rattle." It be closer to the actual phenomenon that we saw.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I know where he is trying to get at, but he used a poor example. Maybe the hut has way less weight than the ravager, but if the hut was as strong as durasteel the mass would be pretty much the same.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Again, i was not only comparing the hut alone to the feat with the ravager. I was given an example, showing that Vader does not lack in raw power.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I was just using your guys examples. I can lift 100 pounds easy over my head, but i can't crush a ten pound dumbbell, even though the ten pound dumbbell is a lot lighter. I was the one using the dumbbel example not Faunus or Red. That shows you are not paying attention.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
And your comments on SW is simply wrong. Have you even read DE? If so you would see how wrong your comment was.Tell you what leave the arguement to Faunus, or even Red. You do not seem to have a lot of knowledge on EU.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Who said it didn't take skill? It is more raw power than skill though. It doesn't take a lot skill to lift something. Say someone benched 500 pounds. Would it take a lot of skill to bench it, or a lot of raw power? It don't matter how skillful you are at lifting, if you don't have the raw power, you won't lift anything extremely heavy.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
That required different tactics. Nihilus's situation required lifting a ship. Vader's situatiion didn't.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Use YOUR head.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
It was a personal comment at Lucien. But i wouldn't expect you to know that, because it would require paying attention and reading.
Are you saying that he wasn't paying attention? His utter demolition of post after post shows that he is. And you do realize of course that he had to read this to respond to it?
As Gideon would say- raise your game or get off the court. I suggest you do the latter, as the former appears to be beyond you.
EDIT: I'm a little behind the times, it seems. Sorry about the late post. I'll work on the most recent ones now.