Originally posted by Doctor-AlvisTake G2K (st-v-sw.net) with a grain of salt. He is more thorough in his research than Wong (Stardestroyer.net), but he makes mistakes too, some of them large.
I always thought that was weird. I've been around, and in, this debate on and off for a while and when it comes to numbers they're always completely different. You get claims like a tie fighter can take out the Enterprise to the shuttle vs squadron, varying numbers on torpedo yields, etc. I've seen people instantly side with the sw-vs-st guy because he has a degree in physics, apparently, I never cared enough to check, but I can't help but see the glaring flaw that even if everyone's math was completely sound they're usually gathering their information by making estimations from on screen footage.
But you don't need to use st-v-sw.net to build a case for Star Trek firepower. You have all the information you need from the actual onscreen statements.
In a Ds9: "Apocalypse Rising", it is stated that a single spread of photon torpedoes would obliterate everything within several hundred kilometers. In the Voyager episode "Rise", it is mentioned that a single photon torpedo would be enough to completely vaporize a nickel/iron asteroid no less than half the size of Voyager herself. Likewise, in VOY: "Living Witness", it was stated that a photon torpedo could destroy an entire city in seconds. Again, a small, Starfleet bomb transported into a target installation was capable of vaporizing all matter in an 800 Km radius (DS9: "A Time to Stand"😉. Then there is the Cardassian ATR-4107 warhead which was able to destroy a moon (Voy: Dreadnought). Then, of course, we have a fleet of 20 Cardassian and Romulan ships which destroyed 30% of a planets crust within seconds in their opening volley (Ds9: "The Die is Cast"😉.
Heck, even in the original series, it was accepted that a single Constitution Class starship would be able to destroy a planet's surface in hours (TOS: "The Cage", "The Menagerie, Part I", "The Menagerie, Part II"😉.
So, you can see that figures are not based on a Trek-fan calculation. We see quite a bit of evidence of firepower in the shows. In contrast, we do not see the same levels of firepower in the top level, Star Wars canon.
Destroying the planet itself may not be possible with SW non-planet-killing weapons but surely wiping out the surface of a planet would be feasible with SW ships like Imperators.
For some reason, an ISD (with way more hardpoints than a Constitution-class ship) would require several days (or weeks) to wipe out a planet's surface, even if the largest 8 turbolaser hardpoints were capable of vaporizing a small town in a single shot.
Originally posted by FE ExpertThe highest canon example of a Base Delta Zero (destroying the civilization and resources of a planet) was a mention of it in the Clone Wars CG animated series, IIRC. I don't think it was mentioned how many ships or how many hours it would take to pull it off. All other references originate from the lesser-canon EU, and many of them involve a fleet of support ships and fighter craft to perform the BDZ properly.
Destroying the planet itself may not be possible with SW non-planet-killing weapons but surely wiping out the surface of a planet would be feasible with SW ships like Imperators.For some reason, an ISD (with way more hardpoints than a Constitution-class ship) would require several days (or weeks) to wipe out a planet's surface, even if the largest 8 turbolaser hardpoints were capable of vaporizing a small town in a single shot.
I agree, a Destroyer should be able to wipe out life on the surface of a planet. The question is, how long would it take?
Originally posted by Acrosurge
Take G2K (st-v-sw.net) with a grain of salt. He is more thorough in his research than Wong (Stardestroyer.net), but he makes mistakes too, some of them large.But you don't need to use st-v-sw.net to build a case for Star Trek firepower. You have all the information you need from the actual onscreen statements.
In a Ds9: "Apocalypse Rising", it is stated that a single spread of photon torpedoes would obliterate everything within several hundred kilometers. In the Voyager episode "Rise", it is mentioned that a single photon torpedo would be enough to completely vaporize a nickel/iron asteroid no less than half the size of Voyager herself. Likewise, in VOY: "Living Witness", it was stated that a photon torpedo could destroy an entire city in seconds. Again, a small, Starfleet bomb transported into a target installation was capable of vaporizing all matter in an 800 Km radius (DS9: "A Time to Stand"😉. Then there is the Cardassian ATR-4107 warhead which was able to destroy a moon (Voy: Dreadnought). Then, of course, we have a fleet of 20 Cardassian and Romulan ships which destroyed 30% of a planets crust within seconds in their opening volley (Ds9: "The Die is Cast"😉.
Heck, even in the original series, it was accepted that a single Constitution Class starship would be able to destroy a planet's surface in hours (TOS: "The Cage", "The Menagerie, Part I", "The Menagerie, Part II"😉.
So, you can see that figures are not based on a Trek-fan calculation. We see quite a bit of evidence of firepower in the shows. In contrast, we do not see the same levels of firepower in the top level, Star Wars canon.
Originally posted by Acrosurge
I agree, a Destroyer should be able to wipe out life on the surface of a planet. The question is, how long would it take?
Easy.
Q1: What is this surface area you need to destroy?
Q2: How much can you destroy with a single shot?
Q3: How accurate are your weapons? (ST and SW can likely ignore this)
Q4: How fast can you shoot?
Originally posted by Acrosurge
The highest canon example of a Base Delta Zero (destroying the civilization and resources of a planet) was a mention of it in the Clone Wars CG animated series, IIRC. I don't think it was mentioned how many ships or how many hours it would take to pull it off. All other references originate from the lesser-canon EU, and many of them involve a fleet of support ships and fighter craft to perform the BDZ properly.I agree, a Destroyer should be able to wipe out life on the surface of a planet. The question is, how long would it take?
the clone wars animated series isnt higher canon then any of the other EU.
Originally posted by jaden101
Why not?They don't border on omnipotence or God-like powers plus it's made an alliance before with Lore who has made an alliance with the Borg (or at least some of them)
Lore does not count. It made an alliance with Lore so it could eat all of the organic life on a planet. Lore was falsely perceived, for part of 1 episode, as a friend to the Federation, and pretty much everyone else.
Lore versus Star Wars would be fair, though.