Originally posted by Trackz
no it goes much further, in the whole of this thread there has been:
-insinuating being a vampire gives an individual no type of amp what-so ever
-ignoring the narrator of blade's comics
-ignoring everything blade says and throwing it out as either trying to intimidate his opponent, or outright lies
-throwing out the writers opinion when he rights his own comic
-ignoring blades high-end feats for lower ones
🙄
Originally posted by Trackz
-insinuating being a vampire gives an individual no type of amp what-so ever
I said being a vampire doesn't automatically make you superior to high end streets. Guess what? It doesn't.
Originally posted by Trackz
-ignoring the narrator of blade's comics
I said that they narrator was a bard and the entire narration of the story was metaphor and hyperbole. Guess what? It was.
That wasn't in this thread either.
Originally posted by Trackz
-ignoring everything blade says and throwing it out as either trying to intimidate his opponent, or outright lies
I don't take everything he says literally.
Originally posted by Trackz
-throwing out the writers opinion when he rights his own comic
Yeah... I never did that.
Originally posted by Trackz
-ignoring blades high-end feats for lower ones
Never did that either. I did however try to explain to you that some of the feats you think are "high-end"... you know... aren't.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Anyone who says Blade wins because he is a vampire is an idoit. There needs to be more to it than that.
There is.....people think that hes very skillful as well. Obvoulsy we dont think that a vampire off the street could beat Elektra
Its also not completely idiotic to say a super-skilled vamp could beat a super skilled human because I have actually given evidence to prove that vampires are superior to humans. Its not just bios that say this but there is evidence in comics. Also the scans I provided of the vamp mobsters killing the human mobsters, the human mobsters actually knew they were dealing with vamps... they still got wiped out. Now if I was a smart arse like you I would say something sarcastic like you need to read comics...but thats ok we cant expect you to read every issue discussed. Also in an issue of Legion Of Monsters one female vamp kills two guys.
Sure humans classifed as being peak-human can be superhuman but can you give me one example of somebody classifed as having superhuman strength being weaker than somebody whos peak human in bios? Therefore the classification of Blade being superhuman is not without merit.
Now this does not mean that Elektra cant beat Blade because eventhough she is human she could be far more skilled than Blade. This is were the problem lies whenever Blade does something cool the excuses come out and you try to downplay every single Blade feat.
There is nothing wrong with thinking Elektra wins but we are comparing feats to see which ones are better. Elektra could kill vampires but the fact of the matter is feats against vamps are better than feats against humans. Blade fights superhuman opponents 100 percent of the time which means alot of his feats are better than Elektras, this is not conclusive evidence that Blade wins but its a valid and legit point to raise.
You also have Elektra having feats against a class 10 SS. Thats fine and that prove that she is skilled but we also have feats of Blade against Morbius, an enhanced vamp that stomped Morbius and Spitefire. At the end of the day both characters have good feats but you just dont give the Blade side any slack.
IMO thinking that Elektra or Blade wins are both valid points, here is the situation.
Blade side: I think Blade wins but I dont have a problem thinking that Elektra wins.
Elektra side: Blade is a ****ing pile of shit who Howard The Duck could beat. Theres no way that Blade wins this and theres no other way of looking at this except how we spin it.
Well said Phantom Zone. You have been dropping nothing but truth on this thread 😄
Originally posted by jinzin
😂Two days ago, you guys practically admitted to never owning/reading a comic with Elektra in it, now you know her well enough to dictate that her speed feats are actually ninja tricks when it's never stated to be the case.
Typical. 🙄
No ones said this. And I would be willing to say every one who has posted has probably read Elektra comics.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
For any curious bystanders who may be reading this thread, the examples of me "down playing" Blade's feats so far have been A) me saying that knocking Sage back three fight with a dagger isn't a class 20 feat, and B) me saying kicking Spider-man isn't a class 20 feat...Clearly, my bias knows no bounds! dur
yes for all new comers to this thread about half of his posts have been this random and idiotic.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Some asshat who knows next to nothing about either characters decides that Blade wins because he's a vampire? I'm sorry but as a comic collector that ****ing insulting. You wouldn't need to read a single issue with either character to come to that conclusion. Taking the stance that Blade is superior based purely on the fact that he is a vampire, devalues the meaning of the actual books. What Elektra does, doesn't matter because Blade is a vampire, and further more what Blade does doesn't matter because he is a vampire? I don't understand as a comicbook fan how you can be comfortable with that stance? Its bullshit. It's and ass backwards stance and it pisses me off. We decided who is superior based on a rational comparison of feats and I'm more than confident that I've done my job to show that Elektra is super [b]in spite of the fact that Blade is a vampire. I'm not going to give Blade to benefit of the doubt and say everything he does is better because he's a vampire, I just can't do it. My stance is that just that feats are the most important thing to compare in a debate, its that they are the only thing worth comparing.You know how sometimes someone will show up in a Spider-man thread and say something like "Spider-man is 10 times faster that Captain America, he wouldn't even get hit once!" Someone who's decided that Spider-man is 10x faster because he was labeled superhuman and has completely ignored the fact that Captain America has speed feats that are comparable with Spider-man across the board. Well this crazy Blade support is the same as that.
/End Rant [/B]
I think you just picked Elektra to win, because you like her better than Blade. I am being serious too. You have to learn to read through PIS on this Forum. However, I will agree with you about the Spider-man Captain america speed feats, even though I would say Spidey is slightly faster. But more importantly you are exaggeratting again.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Anyone who says Blade wins because he is a vampire is an idoit. There needs to be more to it than that.
No one has said that at all. Search through all the posts on this board. No one has said anyone could take Elektra just because they are a vampire. If that were true than any ol vampire could take Elektra. Also Blade is more than just some random vampire.
Originally posted by snoopdogg
I'd be willing to bet more people read a comic in it with Elektra than Blade.And that's still not cool to call somebody an idiot for expressin their view.
They may have come on a little strong, but their reasoning is sound.
Expressing their view is not the problem, it's the way they do it. You think Blade wins, fine, but in a debate you need to provide a good reason why.
It's one thing to express a view, but saying "Blade wins cos' he's a vampire" while ignoring/dismissing feats is just plain wrong. It is not a fair or sensible way to debate.
The only way to do that is to compare actual feats from the comics.
Originally posted by chilled monkeyCalling somebody an idiot for saying Blade wins is not right no matter how you slice it.
They may have come on a little strong, but their reasoning is sound.Expressing their view is not the problem, it's the way they do it. You think Blade wins, fine, but in a debate you need to provide a good reason why.
It's one thing to express a view, but saying "Blade wins cos' he's a vampire" while ignoring/dismissing feats is just plain wrong. It is not a fair or sensible way to debate.
The only way to do that is to compare actual feats from the comics.
Blade's feats have been posted and the people that say Blade wins is using those feats, Elektra feats have been posted and the people that say Elektra wins is using those feats.
However, the difference is the people saying Elektra wins are not being called a idiot.
Originally posted by snoopdogg
Calling somebody an idiot for saying Blade wins is not right no matter how you slice it.Blade's feats have been posted and the people that say Blade wins is using those feats, Elektra feats have been posted and the people that say Elektra wins is using those feats.
However, the difference is the people saying Elektra wins are not being called a idiot.
Again, they were not "Calling somebody an idiot for saying Blade wins."
They were saying they were idiots for saying "Blade wins because he's a vampire." A little strong perhaps, but they're right that such people are wrong.
What you are doing here is taking stuff out of context and trying to twist what people say. Not a fair debating tactic.
Originally posted by chilled monkeyI'm curious. Did anybody actually say that Blade wins because he's a vampire?
Again, they were not "Calling somebody an idiot for saying Blade wins."They were saying they were idiots for saying "Blade wins because he's a vampire." A little strong perhaps, but they're right that such people are wrong.
What you are doing here is taking stuff out of context and trying to twist what people say. Not a fair debating tactic.
Originally posted by chilled monkey
Again, they were not "Calling somebody an idiot for saying Blade wins."They were saying they were idiots for saying "Blade wins because he's a vampire." A little strong perhaps, but they're right that such people are wrong.
Its not that simple, were not saying he wins simply just because hes a vampire there are other reasons as well.
Originally posted by chilled monkey
What you are doing here is taking stuff out of context and trying to twist what people say. Not a fair debating tactic.
Im not really sure if anybody is dismissing feats....could you give examples?
It seems to me that Blade side dont actually have a problem with E winning but it seems to me the excuses made for Blade for feats are far worse.
Originally posted by chilled monkeyno one in this topic said blade wins just because he's a vampire..
Again, they were not "Calling somebody an idiot for saying Blade wins."They were saying they were idiots for saying "Blade wins because he's a vampire." A little strong perhaps, but they're right that such people are wrong.
What you are doing here is taking stuff out of context and trying to twist what people say. Not a fair debating tactic.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
🙄I said being a vampire doesn't automatically make you superior to high end streets. Guess what? It doesn't.
I said that they narrator was a bard and the entire narration of the story was metaphor and hyperbole. Guess what? It was.
That wasn't in this thread either.
I don't take everything he says literally.
Yeah... I never did that.
Never did that either. I did however try to explain to you that some of the feats you think are "high-end"... you know... aren't.
1. no one said just being a vampire makes yo uautomatically more powerful, it does however make you stronger/faster, plenty of high-skilled martial artists are able to beat foes that are merely stronger/faster than they are through their skill. An unskilled vampire will be beaten by a skilled human, that being said a skilled vampire (dracula/jamal afari/sage) have been shown to take on powerful foes, jamal afari easily beat spiderman, as did sage.
2. The narrator in the blade book (and any book) is third-person omniscient, the only difference is that they chose to personify the narrator, unless you believe this zombie follow blade around on every single one of his escapades and then proceeded to writer the limerick to coincide with the story.
3. You don't take anything he says literally, he says he's equal with wolverine, it's a lie (despite this being supported by the writer, as well as employees at marvel), if he implies he's not wearing kevlar, he's lying to try and prove a point, you look for anything and everything to attempt and downplay a feat.
4. I didn't say you did, I said "in the whole of this thread there has been"
5. yet when the same is done to you, it is disregarded, I hope yo urealize elektra still hasn't been proven stronger or faster, and you did in fact bring up a scan of blade against montegue which is probably one of the only sword fights blade has ever lost to try and prove he isn't skilled.
Originally posted by chilled monkey
Again, they were not "Calling somebody an idiot for saying Blade wins."They were saying they were idiots for saying "Blade wins because he's a vampire." A little strong perhaps, but they're right that such people are wrong.
What you are doing here is taking stuff out of context and trying to twist what people say. Not a fair debating tactic.
no one has said this. You need to go back in read this thread in its entirety. Not saying you have to I know I wouldn't. Especially in a thread that is about to hit 50 pages. But in the pages in the 20 and 30's there have been a few sarcastic/ridiculous comments made. So far we have been arguing feats here for the most part. Elektra obviously has more feats than Blade's, but which feats are more impressive up to debate. However, lately a few people who have been continually arguing for Elektra have been twisting the words of the peopel arguing for Blade. Basically, trying to dumb down the argument.
Originally posted by TrackzWhich as Srank aleady painfully pointed out to you guys isn't necessarily the case. The premise for such an argument is unraveled by Blade's very existence nevermind the numerous times Vamps have had embarassing showings against the likes of humans, both trained and untrained.
1. no it means generic vamp>generic human, trained vamp>trained human
Originally posted by Trackz
as for the trained humans, no they didn't blade is written very differently, i nthe instance with the trained shield troops the yare vampires, he kills the mwithout a seconds notice, he doesn't however kill humans, the whole fight he was trying to negotiate, he told them he wasn't a superhuman and that he didn't want to hurt them. It was PIS, guggenheim needed a way t oget blade to sit-down with SHIELD, and theres no way he'd do that on his own terms.
Originally posted by Trackz
2. yes it is, jamal bit him to get rid of him, jamal was a good guy, I hope you realize he could just have easily have ripped his thraot out with that bite....
Originally posted by TrackzYeah.. I know... which is the first reason why one would be hesistent to think him hitting Spiderman with a shovel had anything to do with physicality.
the only difference between sage and the vampires wolverine and others usually beat is that sage was a 200 year-old vampir with knowledge of his limitations and powers, the vampires Black Panther and others usually beat are newly termed and feral, ready to strike out at anything without full-knowledge of their abilities (I know tihs was the case with the vampire cage and black panther beat, even though they had trouble with their first one) Jamal Afari was a skilled vampire (taught blade many of his skills) before you say anything and is a little bit older than blade (who is over 100 years old)
Originally posted by TrackzActually that was before the Hand had tricked Elektra out iirc.
4. I think it says something about their natural stealth, ad Elektra has some form of telepathy doesn't she, she can hear thoughts?
Originally posted by Trackz
5. Such as? many of them appear to be more her ability to play with the human mind mixed with her speed.
Originally posted by TrackzBlades arm is on the side opposite of the one Gambits kicking. I'm guessing that's partially why Blade landed in such an akward position. From all appearances Gambit looked the better in that exchange if only minutely so.
6. Blade blocked gambits kick and landed in a push up position....as for his fight with wolverine it was stated by the creator and a reporter on marvel.com, Blade didn't need the plot device to beat wolverine, he brought it because it is actually one of the only ways to kill wolverine.
The only illusion of a stalemate stems from Blade's vile that he brought which may/may not have worked anyways. And the only reason it was even out was because Wolverine literally stopped fighting him.
I find it amusing that Blade fans think otherwise but it's the absolute truth. Blade wasn't too fast for Wolverine when he was disarmed of his sword, or his gun, he wasn't too fast for Wolverine when he got punched across the room, he wasn't too fast for Wolverine when he was pinned to the ground, but sometime after all that he was able to reach into a pocket/pouch/belt/vest pull out a vile, take Wolverine's mask off, stick the vile in his neck AND do it all before Wolverine could even begin to bring his arm down for the final blow?
Yyyyyyyyeah NO.
Blade's "stalemate" is built on him bringing a plot device to a fight that Logan didn't even begin to take seriously or aggresively (He was landing warning shots left and right for god sakes). And all this in a book where Wolverine's fought OR for 15 rounds and even has some backstory saving Blade due to his incredible >Vamp speed.
And your not even close to accurate about your assumption. Blade wouldn't bring means to kill Wolverine, that wasn't the objective that Hill gave him. He didn't have the vile because it would be the only way to kill Wolverine he brought it for himself and brought it out when the chips began to look really down.
Originally posted by TrackzIt's a well documented fact that cape killers were armed with tranqs they used them over and over during the Civil War storyline, it's one of the reasons there was such a low casualty count. Though I will give you that the notion was that it was a bullet.. though it wasn't stated one way or the other contrart to your belief. In any case... How is being shot clean through the shoulder the same as taking the blunt force of a round to the chest?
7. It was stated not be be a tranq...it was even stated the bullet hit him against his kevlar body armor...and it still knocked him out..it's obvious PIS especially when he took a gunshot to the shoulder earlier in the series and was fine....if blade being shot is any indication he has no skill, then wolverine/deadpool/sabretooth/midnighter are among the worst fighters in the marvel universe seeing as all of them have been shown more times than blade
Originally posted by Trackz
8. Has she been stated as such? it's certainly not in the respect thread. Blade has master the sword how is elektra more skilled, he bested varnae in a sword fight (at full power he was able to do battle with thor, which says something about his skill) Blade has shown mastery over more weapons than elektra has, how is she more versatile?
Again... FEATS.
Elektra's tp, ninja magic tricks, and illusions are not natural physical attributes, they are learned abilities. Her SKILL LEVEL is why she's able to do the things she does, such as the silent scream, mindcontrol, bodyswapping, and enhanced superhuman durability. Blade's skill level with a sword is good no doubt, but he's not the best or even among the best with that! The fact that Elektra can fight as good as blade with edged weaponry, guns, AND in h2h says something about her versatility. The fact that she has feats outsripping Blades in every one of these categories says something else. The fact that her skill goes past simple h2h techniques says something more. She's more versatile and quite more adept in her skill.
Originally posted by TrackzHere's the thing.... No he wasn't. Anyone with common sense can clearly see that DD attacks E with a wild aggression. He was extremely pissed that she had invaded his space. He pressed the attack and was hitting with intent, drawing blood. Elektra just wanted him to watch the TV... He got owned.
9. Daredevil was just as equally distressed, and he had an arm as well as both legs free...I hardly call that defenseless, daredevil has gotten out of similar situations.
Originally posted by TrackzThat's not even an example I'm talking about as I'm well aware of that fact. why don't you go over to her respect thread and actually read through the fights. 😬
10. I'm lookiogn at the scans phantom zone brought up, in which elektra hit him i nthe back of the head with her sai, it appears daredevil wans't even fighting elektra....she just blindsighted him with a sai to the head, thats no indication that she's more skilled.
Originally posted by TrackzThe entire narration is pointed to represent how she's dealing with the head games. 😕
11. However was this stated, was it stated that she was holding back/petrified with fear or anything of the sort?
Originally posted by Trackzuh-huh.
12. ...no...not at all...he didn't deem the skrulls a threat he's lived long enough to know that the other heroes can take care of these kind of things while they usually put super natuaral threats on the back burner.
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneI haven't read that in some time sue me. MTU was a terrible series and I try to forget most of that titanus iron maniac, gl ripoff related nonsense.
The context is that two gangs met up one of them were vampires and one of them human. The humans actually knew they were vampires and were obvoulsy prepared for trouble. You know its like when two gangs meet up to exchange drugs for cash and ecah side is armed. At some point the vamps decided to turn on them. If you actually read the comic it shows you what happened. Marvel team-up issue 8 vol 3 (I think)
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneAnd he's trained to it, and he's lived most of his life with the purpose OF doing just that. hunting them. Did those "thugs"? No... shit. you need training to be proficient at getting a head shot with a simple handgun. I didn't see katanas and quandos o'plenty so you'll forgive me if I discard deheading as a way that the kid and his driver might try to negotiate their opponents... yknow, IF they knew they were about to turn into lunch, which of course... they didn't. INADMISSABLE EXAMPLE!
..you dont neccesarily need garlic or silver or any of that shit. You can kill a vampire by cutting its head off or piercing it through the heart and it doesnt have to be wood or silver. Blade has killed vampires with standard metal.
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneThat's not even the point of what I'm arguing. 🤨
..and if you want to argue that vamps are equal to humans
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
..the humans can at least put up a fight. Vamps can still get hurt and Koed, if you read the comic the vamps told the humans they were going to kill them, grabbed them and the next thing we see is blood everywhere. The humans didnt even put up a struggle.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Furthermore theres a very good chance they knew they were vampires because when the guys were talking to the vamps they were in vamp form. The guys didnt say some shit like " Whoa whats up with your face why do you have fangs...lets get the $$$$ out of here!!" They were chatting to them calm as you like.
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneWait.... why would I need to prove that Henry Sage wasn't a standard vampire when you just did? 😕
Prove to me hes not. There no class 10 vamps....NONE. the strongest vamps are Draculas and Varnae and they are class 6. the most powerful vamps are the oldest at the guy is young compared to Drac and Varnae.
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneI didn't say it was PIS. I said it was a poor showing, which it is. and it has no bearing on the fight... which it doesn't.
It is a poor showing but its not PIS. Feel free to post scans of ordinary humans sneaking up on BP.
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneWhich was a point that was absolutely WRECKED by Srank when you weren't muffing it up with your own arguments...
The point is Vamps > Humans. Therefore thats better than alot of Elektras feats in her respect thread.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
The point is Vamps > Humans. Therefore thats better than alot of Elektras feats in her respect thread.
So now it's not that Blade's a vampire but that he fights other vampires and that somehow makes him superior?
Are you kidding me!
Do you really not understand at base level what kind of problems that type of argument creates?
Think about it for 5 seconds.. just think!
I mean, we've got heroes running around the MU like Spiderman: He's kicked the ass of damn near the entire Marvel Universe. He's fought, AND beaten anyone from mid tiers, to bricks, to national threats, to planetary threats, to heralds! And he's been doing that for decades.
Wolverine: He's just as bad a Spiderman! Constantly fighting and beating people he should have no business engaging with. The only difference between him and Spidey, is that Spidey had about a decade headstart and a lot more titles to his name.
Captain America: More of the same.
Daredevil: Maybe not as bad as the aformentioned 3 but he STILL regularly shit-kicks people who are vastly superhuman in comparison to himself.
For shit's sake, even generally accepted lower tiers like Moonknight and Punisher make a habit of taking down meta and superhuman's that far outweigh what standard vamps have shown themselves to be capible of.
Are you seriously prepared to defend a position that beckons us to estimate what a character can and can't do soley based on who they fight instead of actual feats? Or the titles of who they fight?
And yes, that's all it is with Blade's vamps... a title. Being vamps makes them more serious cannon fodder than black opts troops? Really? Cause I'd greatly like to see some proof of that given the fact that 3 members of the Nightstalkers who regularly took down vamps WERE HUMANS.
Even then, you're completely forgetting..... Maybe some of Elektra's feats are against humans and you feel free to discard them... What about her constant exploits against the Hand?
It's stated that they are the worth of 12 men. Even their grunts have feats vastly outstripping that of vamp fodder. And they've casually whipped SHIELDS ass, of which even the lowest members are x2 human in stats. Even if Elektra's only feat against the Hand was killing thousands of them alongside Logan in EOTS that would still be enough to put even the best of Blades vamp fodder feats to shame... and by a healthy margin...
And TOO! Are we forgetting that a number of her feats are actually accomplished in which her opponents don't really become a factor?
Moving faster than the eye can see underwater, moving too fast to be recorded... Outside participation does not influence the impressive stature of these feats, but you choose to ignore them all the same? Of course you do, cause you're a shmuck.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
the difference is that:
1. Blade was holding back
2. Humans can be more lethal than superhumans with prep which is what they had. Those guys were specifically trained to take down superhumans and laid a trap specifically for Blade.
3. Morbius the Vampire was part of that trap.
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneYou've seen some, don't like those go buy Redeemer or Nemesis.
Show me scans of Elektra beating Wolverine and DD. 😐
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneThere's an understatment.
Hey im not perfect
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneNo wait, THAT'S the understatement.
I make mistakes.
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneAnd it shows! 😉 You know, beating an argument like a dead horse no matter how much evidence is put up against you.
Unlike you however who think he right all the time.
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneNo I'm telling you that Elektra looks vastly superior in a situation she wasn't even hostile in, which is true.
How even if its CIS for Elektra you stated that Elektras has always looked better against DD in every fight. I really hope that the scans in sranks respect arent the fights you are refering to. Two of them involve Elektra sneaking up on DD and a third fight involves her using a trap.
Even the fight you posted shows Elektra breifly restraining DD. So are you seriously trying to tell me that its conclusive that DD couldnt have gotten out of it?
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneI didn't miss it, I dismissed it, because it's worth dismissing. You're trying to squander Elektra's name based on her performances against Bullseye and comparing them to his against Punisher... That forces one to disregard the circumstances (CONTEXT, how many times do we need to explain this to you?) under which Bullseye performed well, while at the same time discarding how Elektra free of those circumstances looked compared to Punisher... It's a pretty devious debate tactic
You missed the point I was trying to make but doesnt matter anyway.
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneNot without mass casualties. Are you kidding?
Super Skrulls got taken out by everybody, give me a break.
Originally posted by Phantom ZonePretty much, they had several confrontations, all of which Spiderman was trying to help/reason/ or was weaker then he was pre OMD. Saying that Blade's > E because he fights Spiderman not only once again ignores context, but this time cronology too, AND the loss record Blade has with Morb to boot.
Why you taking the piss? You know thats not the only time they fought. That THING > Spiderman.
Originally posted by Phantom Zoneof all of that? Yeah It's not my job to do your homework for you. Srank already posted the scans of Elektra dispatching Kirigi.
1. I want scans.
2. Yeah and Bullseye has done well against DD and Elektra but still got his arse kicked twice by Punisher. Just because she beat some ninja that almost killed dont neccesarily mean shes better than DD.