provided their not of the german variety and there is oversight that the water isn't being smuggled by abbas, sure. I have no problem with the palestinians, i just think every leader they've had since the end of world war I, democratically elected or otherwise belongs in front of a firing squad. They should really trying hitting up arafat's ex-wife about all those billions of dollars in aid he embezzled in swiss banks.
Originally posted by Darth Jello
So, can people just discuss the conflict at hand without any kind of antisemitic or antiislamic tangents, especially biblical ones. Cause i mean if we get into the latter, i mean, us jews and the muslims aren't worshiping a pantheon in the guise of monotheism, revering the dead body parts of saints or celebrating a formerly orgiastic pagan holiday supposedly commemorating the birth of our unoriginal savior 5 months prior to his probable birth by extolling the virtues of consumerism while lying to our children about a magical fat **** who brings presents and desensitizes them to the very real danger of home invasion. No one's faith stands up to analysis or ridicule really so cut the crap and stay on topic. One country is at war with another political entity in the backdrop of an extremely hostile region, both sides have serious problems...etc.
I don´t think Jews or Muslims can lecture about silly religiuos practices, seeing as the Jewish religion is based on the Egyptians story of Isis, yep the stone plates were received on top of a pyramid, and the Muslims worship a pagan moon god.
Maybe this IS the problem, you all follow silly fairy story religious beliefs and are fighting because of it.
so stealing form your own people and keeping them ignorant and illiterate is ok? (well, based on the economic bailout, i guess it is). The IMF aknowledged that while everyone in the west bank and gaza were starving to death and living in camps, mr. arafat had a total networth of 1.3 billion dollars, over 900 million of which was transferred to a swiss account...
Hamas, which was unfortunately aided by the israelis as an opposition group to the PLO when it first started are just a bunch of maifa dons with a religious agenda, abbas is himself a holocaust denier and a thief. Oh and don't get me started on the israeli's... the government is chaotic and disorganized due to being the most democratic in the world, the army is out of control and factionalized, and the intelligence services are busy with foreign threats and domestic threats from kachanists, becoming overstretched and almost useless, not to mention the business interests.
Originally posted by Darth Jello
I think that this might be a dangerous time to be jewish anyway with the way the media is slanting this and the fact that there's an economic crisis on. History repeats. I remember right when the crisis hit there was an entire CNN report about how congress wasn't doing anything because "Some members are taking Yom Kippur off (sneer, scoff)". Like, I am seriously worried about backlash all over the world from both opportunistic right wing thugs and by liberals who've been covertly brainwashed by those same right wing thugs. If there's anymore deano style posts or threads regarding this topic involving david icke or lizard people or the protocols of the elders of zion or whatever jew hating theory anyone can pull out of their ass today, I'd like to point out that prejudice is a classic tool of ruling classes to maintain order especially in times of crisis and that if there is a sinister cabal planning to enslave the world in some feudalistic wet dream (and there very well could be), basic political theory says they're using jews or freemasons or muslims or liberals or armenians, or whomever as a red herring and it always works because people are idiots.
So, can people just discuss the conflict at hand without any kind of antisemitic or antiislamic tangents, especially biblical ones. Cause i mean if we get into the latter, i mean, us jews and the muslims aren't worshiping a pantheon in the guise of monotheism, revering the dead body parts of saints or celebrating a formerly orgiastic pagan holiday supposedly commemorating the birth of our unoriginal savior 5 months prior to his probable birth by extolling the virtues of consumerism while lying to our children about a magical fat **** who brings presents and desensitizes them to the very real danger of home invasion. No one's faith stands up to analysis or ridicule really so cut the crap and stay on topic. One country is at war with another political entity in the backdrop of an extremely hostile region, both sides have serious problems...etc.
Dude. This isn't 1938 here. Things are a bit different. Problems are more complicated.
The Holocaust was caused, as you said, due to using the Jews as an easy scapegoat to blame for all of society's problems. It was made far easier, because Germany was in a shitty predicament at that moment. It was a way of channeling the masses' hatred. It was also due to the fact that Hitler was, supposedly, obsessed with the Protocols of the Elders of Zion (mentioned in your post) and had a distinct problem with our religion and our 'different' way of life. In my opinion, the Jews- via an attitude of general superiority and self-righteousness- emphasized this difference and chose to exist in a society that screams "I'm right and you're wrong". But that's for another topic.
Now, the Christian world has no problem with our actual religion. Now that we have a country of our own, it's much more difficult to paint us as a ridiculous and illegitimate religion. It also far more difficult to cast us as scapegoats for the all world's problem; we hold considerable power within the U.S, which is Israel's closest ally. Our religion is, should I say, legitimate. No longer a minority easy to attack and discriminate. The Modern World hatred of Israel, IMO, stems not exactly from antisemitism but from a blatant misunderstanding of Israel's actions. Muslim extremists find it extremely easy to pain Israel as the big, evil empire oppressing the small, little resistance who only want freedom. Everybody loves the underdog and everybody hates the big bully. Really, that should be an explanation of Israel's incredible unpopularity.
Of course, there IS antisemitism EVERYWHERE, but it isn't the direct cause of hated of Israel. Definitely not West world hatred of Israel. Muslims? That's an entirely different story (and a lot easier to explain). Basically, it's a problem with social oppression, racism, and, of course, religious fundamentalism. Both on our part and the Muslims' part. There's a ton of unfair racism directed at Arabs here; despite plenty of Israeli-Arab people here, we live in practically separate societies. Lots of racism against them, and certain idiotic right-wing Israelis find it necessary to live in a minority within Arab-dominated lands, in order to display our supposed superiority and 'right to live here'.
That's where religious fundamentalism comes in. Muslim terrorist shouldn't be explained, really. Just an exploitation of religion in a militaristic and intolerant way. The Israeli one? Well, considering that we're a state founded on a religion (Judaism), there's a ton of religious influence here. While most of our politicians are not outright religious, they're still obviously influenced by traditions and ideals. Including the stuff written in the bible. Which makes it far more difficult to reach a compromise and generates a lot of hate and war-mongering.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
😗See, ignorant asshats like you are the reason why the whole world hates us. I strongly suggest you shut the **** up and get the actual facts instead of running your mouth about the big, evil Israel crushing those innocent little people.
You really have no idea what I know and, if you cant hold a debate without resorting to insults and Accusatory remarks, then your words have no value; no one will listen. You have proved nothing with your rhetoric.
The Zionist Doctrine is real. Someone on here said that the walls were for protection between Israel - Palestinian borders . WRONG they are Fortifications to protect Israeli Cities in Palestine. The Israelis are actively aggressive in their wanting all the land Back from the Time of Israel and Judea, over 2,000 years ago which ,in whole, was "Zion"
"Hebron is in the West Bank. It is at this place where God appeared
to Abram (Abraham) and said "I am giving you this land" ... This is
not a political battle at all. It is a contest over whether the word
of God is true." (Goldberg, 2002)
FACTS MASTER CRIMZON:
The 1964 Fatah Constitution,Chapter One, Article 7 Stated:
"The Zionist Movement is Racial, Colonial, and Aggressive in Ideology, goals organisation and method"
Sarah Waheed U.S Foreign Diplomatic Relations 2005:
"The wording of the charter isn’t a propaganda tool that Arab nations are throwing about, as the Corporate media would have one believe. In fact, most of the world’s countries have accepted that Zionism is tantamount to racism. Interestingly enough, Zionist leaders themselves call this “anti-semitism”, a charge often thrown about to ward off critics of Israel’s apartheid-like policies and aggression towards the Palestinians."
For every 1 Israeli that is killed by Palestinians, 50 Palestinians are killed by Israelis.
I saw a Documentary lead by a defected Israeli soldier (A Captain) wanting to show the truth ,showing how that morning the road was palestinian and that after-noon Israel has armed blockades. A Palestinian man was trying to get his wife to the Hospital on a road that was blocked by Israeli soldiers. The man pleaded with them to let him pass. The Defector Captain translated and said "The mans wife was pregnant and needed to go to the Hospital"After some words were exchanged the man was grabbed and his arms pulled backwards. The Israeli soldier took a rock and broke his elbows and dropped him, leaving him to writhe in pain , his pregnant wife left there to give birth in the car by herself. This was in Palestine, not the west Bank, not Gaza, but in the heart of the Country . Were the Israelis are building walled City's and securing the Palestinian roads that lead to Israeli territory.
To a certain extent I think The Old Testament which is The Jewish Bible was written by People with an axe to grind. I mean The stuff that God is supposed to have said is Scandalous.
Like When this Jewish guy knocks up a slave; The Great Spirit is alleged to say in a one on one convo: "Get rid of that slave woman and her son, for that slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with my son Isaac."
If you grow up reading that kind of stuff you'll believe anything.
TBH Earth would be better off without organised religion. Native American and Aboriginie *religion* is alright. Its more of a way of living in harmony with the environment than nursing grudges with a teat from generation to generation.
Originally posted by shiv
TBH Earth would be better off without organised religion. Native American and Aboriginie *religion* is alright. Its more of a way of living in harmony with the environment than nursing grudges with a teat from generation to generation.
Also, some of the pre Catholic Church religions in Europe such as the Pagen or heathen religions were fairly harmless.
I work with a Heathen (Odiness. He believes in Odin, Thor, etc.) and he resents monotheisisms, pretty much. He thinks that the "my God is better than your God" bullshit is lame and wasetful.
I agree, for the most part. I felt his opinion is more credible than mine because he's an outsider looking in to the Monotheistic idiocy.
Originally posted by Lycanthrope
You really have no idea what I know and, if you cant hold a debate without resorting to insults and Accusatory remarks, then your words have no value; no one will listen. You have proved nothing with your rhetoric.
Then stop talking about a subject you have zero actual knowledge of, outside of rumors and unverified conspiracy theories.
Originally posted by Lycanthrope
The Zionist Doctrine is real. Someone on here said that the walls were for protection between Israel - Palestinian borders . WRONG they are Fortifications to protect Israeli Cities in Palestine.
Those places were evacuated a whole bunch of time ago, actually. It was a massive (and extremely controversial) operation that got a lot of Israeli people out of their houses.
Originally posted by Lycanthrope
The Israelis are actively aggressive in their wanting all the land Back from the Time of Israel and Judea, over 2,000 years ago which ,in whole, was "Zion"
Who the **** told you that? That's bullshit. Arabs are constantly given lands from us- just not enough for them. Compromises must be reached during a time of war.
Aside from certain religious extremists, who admittedly have a large influence on politics here, Israel doesn't care about reverting back to being "Zion".
Originally posted by Lycanthrope
"Hebron is in the West Bank. It is at this place where God appeared
to Abram (Abraham) and said "I am giving you this land" ... This is
not a political battle at all. It is a contest over whether the word
of God is true." (Goldberg, 2002)
There are always going to be extremist nutjobs everywhere. If you used this quote, why ignore Hamas swearing to eradicate us off the map? Or Ahmadinejad? Nasrallah?
Originally posted by Lycanthrope
FACTS MASTER CRIMZON:
Originally posted by Lycanthrope
The 1964 Fatah Constitution,Chapter One, Article 7 Stated:"The Zionist Movement is Racial, Colonial, and Aggressive in Ideology, goals organisation and method"
Do you even know what the Fatah is? The Fatah is a Palestinian organization that, while not nearly as extremist as the Hamas, still commits terror and war against Israel. Can we really trust what they said in 1964?
Also, we did expand colonially during several of our wars- which were all initiated by Arabic actions against us. We gave back some of these lands, though. That's a fact.
Sarah Waheed U.S Foreign Diplomatic Relations 2005:
Originally posted by Lycanthrope
"The wording of the charter isn’t a propaganda tool that Arab nations are throwing about, as the Corporate media would have one believe. In fact, most of the world’s countries have accepted that Zionism is tantamount to racism. Interestingly enough, Zionist leaders themselves call this “anti-semitism”, a charge often thrown about to ward off critics of Israel’s apartheid-like policies and aggression towards the Palestinians."
Another ignorant idiot! Now why the hell should I trust what she says? Yes, we're aggressive towards Palestinians. But why are all the atrocities committed by them conveniently ignored by Israel bashers?
I'm not a fan of ultra-patriotism, so I find zionism to be definitely problematic, but it's not the dominating force in our country. Everyone's ready for a compromise; after 60 years of war, everyone would be.
Also, I love how you say you'll use 'facts' but instead post the rantings of that idiot over there.
Also, Sarah Waheed is a 'freelance writer'.
Originally posted by Lycanthrope
For every 1 Israeli that is killed by Palestinians, 50 Palestinians are killed by Israelis.
Where did you get that statistic? And because we're better equipped and value human life more than they do, why should we be punished?
Originally posted by Lycanthrope
FI saw a Documentary lead by a defected Israeli soldier (A Captain) wanting to show the truth ,showing how that morning the road was palestinian and that after-noon Israel has armed blockades. A Palestinian man was trying to get his wife to the Hospital on a road that was blocked by Israeli soldiers. The man pleaded with them to let him pass. The Defector Captain translated and said "The mans wife was pregnant and needed to go to the Hospital"After some words were exchanged the man was grabbed and his arms pulled backwards. The Israeli soldier took a rock and broke his elbows and dropped him, leaving him to writhe in pain , his pregnant wife left there to give birth in the car by herself. This was in Palestine, not the west Bank, not Gaza, but in the heart of the Country .
Gah. Do you think I'm not aware of these stories? There you have it; the reason we're still in war. Ridiculous racist bastards like the guy you mentioned here, who commit crimes against Arabs and Palestinians based on stereotypes, misconceptions, and excess zionism. The government overlooking such crimes is horrible, horrible. That's something we can agree on.
Originally posted by Lycanthrope
Were the Israelis are building walled City's and securing the Palestinian roads that lead to Israeli territory.
Do you have any proof of this? I didn't think so. So shut up about things you don't understand. If you want to be, shall we say, enlightened, live in Sderot for two weeks. You know how many people can't leave their houses without fear of being blown apart by rockets fired from Gaza? More than 200,000.
Like i said from the beginning. The idea of establishing Israel as a State in 1947 was a doomed plan from the beginning. You are pawns. The west uses You for an excuse to have a Military presence. Israel would already be done if it were not for Western Technology,mainly U.S., to aide You.(Actually i know the Idea was Brittan's) U.S. or Western nations,wants the oil ,we make up a Nation knowing they will be warred upon, in order for us to have an Ally in the OPEC country's ,we have to support You. I guess i cant blame Israel for fighting with what they were givin, any nation would. Its just sad that Israel has the Ability to destroy so much life and they do not restrain themselves. But never the less, it is going to be the beginning of WWIII if they dont stand down. Because the other Arab nations will start to retaliate and it will draw the west in and its a big Bloody mess. Israel has a MAFIA mentality. You kill my friend I kill you Family, You kill my family I kill everyone in your City.
Originally posted by Lycanthrope
Like i said from the beginning. The idea of establishing Israel as a State in 1947 was a doomed plan from the beginning. You are pawns. The west uses You for an excuse to have a Military presence. Israel would already be done if it were not for Western Technology,mainly U.S., to aide You.(Actually i know the Idea was Brittan's) U.S. or Western nations,wants the oil ,we make up a Nation knowing they will be warred upon, in order for us to have an Ally in the OPEC country's ,we have to support You. I guess i cant blame Israel for fighting with what they were givin, any nation would. Its just sad that Israel has the Ability to destroy so much life and they do not restrain themselves. But never the less, it is going to be the beginning of WWIII if they dont stand down. Because the other Arab nations will start to retaliate and it will draw the west in and its a big Bloody mess. Israel has a MAFIA mentality. You kill my friend I kill you Family, You kill my family I kill everyone in your City.
It is strange how the "West" established Israel, in order to get an ally in the OPEC nations in 1947, when OPEC was not established until 1960.
http://www.opec.org/aboutus/history/history.htm
I think this puts great doubt on everything you are saying.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
It is strange how the "West" established Israel, in order to get an ally in the OPEC nations in 1947, when OPEC was not established until 1960.http://www.opec.org/aboutus/history/history.htm
I think this puts great doubt on everything you are saying.
I stand corrected.I generalized with using OPEC so the majority would understand what i was saying. They were well aware of oil in the Mideast at the time. WWII is when Britain started drilling in Kuwait. This is why Kuwait was partitioned from Iraq. So if that statement diminishes my point in your eyes, oh well.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
You do know, OPEC countries were exporting petrol before the formation of the actual OPEC, don't you?
Yes, but if someone can get something so fundamental as when something happened right, then I doubt there points all together. It is more likely that people who screw up in this way are simply repeating something they have been told, and not looking for them selves. This does not mean that the information in general is right or wrong, but only that this source (person) is not reliable.
Originally posted by Lycanthrope
I stand corrected.I generalized with using OPEC so the majority would understand what i was saying. They were well aware of oil in the Mideast at the time. WWII is when Britain started drilling in Kuwait. This is why Kuwait was partitioned from Iraq. So if that statement diminishes my point in your eyes, oh well.
I think that you are missing a big point. The nations and their boarders where established by other nations, and not by the people who lived there. All of the nations in the middle east, including Israel, were all made up by the "West". To single Israel out because of this fact is to ignore the bigger picture.
Originally posted by Lycanthrope
Like i said from the beginning. The idea of establishing Israel as a State in 1947 was a doomed plan from the beginning. You are pawns. The west uses You for an excuse to have a Military presence. Israel would already be done if it were not for Western Technology,mainly U.S., to aide You.(Actually i know the Idea was Brittan's) U.S. or Western nations,wants the oil ,we make up a Nation knowing they will be warred upon, in order for us to have an Ally in the OPEC country's ,we have to support You. I guess i cant blame Israel for fighting with what they were givin, any nation would. Its just sad that Israel has the Ability to destroy so much life and they do not restrain themselves. But never the less, it is going to be the beginning of WWIII if they dont stand down. Because the other Arab nations will start to retaliate and it will draw the west in and its a big Bloody mess. Israel has a MAFIA mentality. You kill my friend I kill you Family, You kill my family I kill everyone in your City.
Yes, Israel was originated as a pawn. A doomed plan? I'm not sure how smart it was to establish Israel in the heart of Arab land (directly opposed to the existence of Israel), but it's impossible to just evacuate Israel at the moment. It's a hugely developed nation- and it represents the only 'modern' nation in the Middle East. We have zero oil resources here- therefore, we're useless from that point of perspective. On the other hand, we represent the only U.S ally in the Middle East- which is invaluable. Both for the purpose of having a 'foothold' here, and for being able to refuel here while traveling, say, to Iraq. We connect the three continents, you understand, which makes us extremely important.
We show no restraint? Are you high? Are you even aware of our military capacity? If we really wanted to, Gaza would be decimated ruins in the course of three hours. But it isn't. We have a plan- a flawed plan, yes, but still a plan- to ensure the survival of civilians. It doesn't work to its full extent because of the Hamas. You want to blame citizens dying in Gaza? Blame the Hamas. They attacked us and they're the ones keeping them in check. Placing them under house arrest using fear and terror, and then hiding in civil locations- directly endangering civilians themselves. Mafia mentality my ass. The whole purpose of the ground attack is to exert crowd control, to minimize civilian deaths, and to be more focused on actually assassinating Hamas officials and members.
If it wasn't for religious fundamentalists like them, we would have had peace loooong ago.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Yes, but if someone can get something so fundamental as when something happened right, then I doubt there points all together. It is more likely that people who screw up in this way are simply repeating something they have been told, and not looking for them selves. This does not mean that the information in general is right or wrong, but only that this source (person) is not reliable.
So the concept of establishing a Nation for the Western Allies of WWII's best interest is not reliable, or more to the point Viable? Does this really diminish my point? Its not that I wasn't aware of the establishing of OPEC. I was making a point about Oil Producing Countries.But, you got me. I was using something figurative to paint a picture and I should have been more astute and literal because I have Geopolitical scholars on here such as your self. I stand corrected. 😄