Thing is, as some people here have stated, Hamas is unreasonable and unwilling to come to a compromise. Because of religious fanaticism, of course. Israel has attempted to reach out for a peace agreement and come to an agreement for a ceasefire between Hamas and Israel; it's just that the deal wasn't 'good' enough for Hamas, who are only willing to accept the entirety of Israel.
IMO, though, if Israel was willing to give up Jerusalem- or split it in half- things would be different. Because this is a religious war, at least on the Hamas' part, giving them the most religiously important part of Israel may be enough to compensate for not giving them the entirety of the land. Thing is, excess Zionism and Judaism definitely influences politics here. Though, most of our candidates for prime minister agree to at least negotiate on Jerusalem's ownership...
Also, the analogy to a farm is just bullshit. This isn't a response to a single rocket or bomb. This is a response to a city was bombed and oppressed for EIGHT YEARS. Dozens of missiles fell every single day. People were barely allowed to even leave their own house, for fear of dying. Indeed, many people are in poverty and/or homeless now. Our response was perhaps over the top, but having no response is justified? I don't think so.
I just watched a report on the news that stated that an israeli living in one of the rocket targeted areas had an average of 15 seconds from the detection of a launch to retreat to a bomb shelter. Imagine having a wife and a couple of kids and waking up in the middle of the night to that scenario. Would you be quick to make a "neighbor throwing rocks" analogy and urge your government to negotiate a settlement while the rockets are still flying? Anyone who says yes is a liar.
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Also, the analogy to a farm is just bullshit. This isn't a response to a single rocket or bomb. This is a response to a city was bombed and oppressed for EIGHT YEARS. Dozens of missiles fell every single day. People were barely allowed to even leave their own house, for fear of dying. Indeed, many people are in poverty and/or homeless now. Our response was perhaps over the top, but having no response is justified? I don't think so.
Yeah, it's more like having neighbors who are shooting at you with high-powered rifles. , with no police around to come take care of it. Oh yeah, and you have two armored Humvees with .50 cal chain guns mounted on the top. Do you sit and take it because you have a tactical advantage?
Originally posted by Master Crimzonthat post got you off my ignore list. gg, sir.
Thing is, as some people here have stated, Hamas is unreasonable and unwilling to come to a compromise. Because of religious fanaticism, of course. Israel has attempted to reach out for a peace agreement and come to an agreement for a ceasefire between Hamas and Israel; it's just that the deal wasn't 'good' enough for Hamas, who are only willing to accept the entirety of Israel.IMO, though, if Israel was willing to give up Jerusalem- or split it in half- things would be different. Because this is a religious war, at least on the Hamas' part, giving them the most religiously important part of Israel may be enough to compensate for not giving them the entirety of the land. Thing is, excess Zionism and Judaism definitely influences politics here. Though, most of our candidates for prime minister agree to at least negotiate on Jerusalem's ownership...
Also, the analogy to a farm is just bullshit. This isn't a response to a single rocket or bomb. This is a response to a city was bombed and oppressed for EIGHT YEARS. Dozens of missiles fell every single day. People were barely allowed to even leave their own house, for fear of dying. Indeed, many people are in poverty and/or homeless now. Our response was perhaps over the top, but having no response is justified? I don't think so.
Originally posted by backdoorman
Israel has not been as willing to maintain peace as you make it sound. They failed to end the blockade of Gaza as they were supposed to after the cease-fire agreement of 2008 (the same one the West has been vilifying Hamas for breaking). Besides, it's ridiculous the way you idolize Israel for removing Israeli settlers. Israeli settlements on the Gaza Strip and the West Bank have been considered to be in violation of international law by UNSC and International Court of Justice.One more thing, as someone noted above Hamas' 'official' goal is indeed the destruction of Israel, etc. However, if Israel offers a comprehensive two-state solution involving the absolute removal of Israeli army and settlements from Palestinian land in honor of the 1947 UN partition plan, I wonder whether Hamas won't change its stance, or at least whether not the Palestinian people would elect leaders in favor of it. I remind you here of the cold response the Geneva Accord got from the Israeli government, though of course I should also note that the Palestinians didn't particularly favor it either.
I dont idolise Israel at all. To suggest it is nonsense. Some people here simply can't see a reason for Israel to be doing what they are. I am giving that reason. As for the resettling. Ariel Sharon ran for election on the exact opposite policy and then implemented resettling. This was a hugely controversial thing to do and led to massive unrest in Israel. It was also one the boldest steps towards peace anyone has taken in that area of the world for decades.
As for what Hamas would want should Israel allow a two state solution to occur. They would want what they've always wanted and what their original charter states. The destruction of Israel. Regardless of whether they've removed this or not. They've stated that the only time they would consider a ceasefire with Israel is if they retreat back to the land they had pre 1967. Yet they still continued to attack Israel with rockets despite them making the 1st real step towards a solution.
Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
I don't think it is just Hamas, I believe it is the people of Palestine, they voted for Hamas they gave Hamas the mandate...and now they're paying for it.
I wondered when someone would say that. Reminds me of when Osama bin Laden said the American people were legitimate targets because they voted for their government.
😛
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
In hindsight Bardock does not have authority to compromise- only this guy does. Well played sir. Well played indeed.
Originally posted by jaden101
I wondered when someone would say that. Reminds me of when Osama bin Laden said the American people were legitimate targets because they voted for their government.😛
Originally posted by Master Crimzon
Thing is, as some people here have stated, Hamas is unreasonable and unwilling to come to a compromise. Because of religious fanaticism, of course. Israel has attempted to reach out for a peace agreement and come to an agreement for a ceasefire between Hamas and Israel; it's just that the deal wasn't 'good' enough for Hamas, who are only willing to accept the entirety of Israel.IMO, though, if Israel was willing to give up Jerusalem- or split it in half- things would be different. Because this is a religious war, at least on the Hamas' part, giving them the most religiously important part of Israel may be enough to compensate for not giving them the entirety of the land. Thing is, excess Zionism and Judaism definitely influences politics here. Though, most of our candidates for prime minister agree to at least negotiate on Jerusalem's ownership...
Also, the analogy to a farm is just bullshit. This isn't a response to a single rocket or bomb. This is a response to a city was bombed and oppressed for EIGHT YEARS. Dozens of missiles fell every single day. People were barely allowed to even leave their own house, for fear of dying. Indeed, many people are in poverty and/or homeless now. Our response was perhaps over the top, but having no response is justified? I don't think so.
It is an analogy which takes into account the resources Available within the region which has resulted in an Economy focused around Land Tourism and Food production
Israel is heavily dependant on imports for energy technology minerals industrial chemicals textiles cereals and red meat etc.
Israel is a strong exporter of produce from perennial market gardening projects.
Avocado es
Citrus*seasonal*
Sweet peppers predominantly red/green varieties
tomatoes
etc these crops can thrive on irrigated sandy loam type soils production of vegetables is an all year round activity given the latitude.
As for the analogy of the farm itself It reflects the conflict based around land
Where your cattle have been trampling over your neighbours crop [A neighbour who's farmed peacefully there before you arrived on the scene.] Now he's angry.
I made reference to your cattle pen being 200 acres away from the neighbour with a catapult.
On a large flat plain you would have to be a moron to walk 200 acres to the neighbouring territory and stand still within striking distance of a stone thrown from a catapult.
In this case you would have to be a moron to violate restraining orders issued by the the Security Council and The International Court of Justice. to GTFO.
So the guy is yelling, "******ing cows... $&5@*($%&^%er!!" and generally pulling his teeth out and Shooting stones from his catapult at a target out of range. You drive up to the fence and shout for an hour. Another neighbour looking in on the action with binoculars intervenes, calling the Sheriff. The Sheriff arrives and says fellas, fellas, "Stay away from each other." *points*..."You! climb back in your vehicle and keep your herd on the far side away from your neighbours crop. Or I'll bring you in." The Sheriff tells the other farmer; "You gots to chill. if you take the law into your own hands I'll have to bring you in too!"
The Sheriff leaves and You swing a U-turn and walk to where you can see the whites of his eyes. You get hit with a stone. It scuffs your shoe. You get mad and jump in your jeep and head to your living quarters which are naturally 200 acres away overlooking the cattle pen.
You take out a sniper rifle drive back and stop 1000 feet from the edge of your territory and snipe your neighbour for attacking you. Never mind that your cows were trampling over his crops in the first place.
I find this interesting because I'm sure the U.S. did this in Iraq plenty of times since they devastated the country but you never saw reports of it:
Israeli air strike hits U.N. operated school
I'm sure Iraq had nothing U.N. operated but you get my drift.
Originally posted by chithappens
I find this interesting because I'm sure the U.S. did this in Iraq plenty of times since they devastated the country but you never saw reports of it:Israeli air strike hits U.N. operated school
I'm sure Iraq had nothing U.N. operated but you get my drift.
Yeah i think this might have been the move that tips the UN away from Israel...a completely idiotic thing to do even in light of the relatively small number of casualties.
Then again. The UN is an increasingly obsolete talking shop anyway so no wonder Israel thinks it can act with impunity. What's the UN going to do?...Recent history would suggest very little if anything.
Originally posted by Lycanthrope
Damn i wish some of you guys were on here earlier when i was the bad guy. I see my points being backed up left and right now. But I was called racist against Jews. I didn't have the skills to articulate as well i guess.
This the the Jews favorite weapon, if anyone doesn´t agree with them or what they are doing they get branded "racists", "antisemitist", "Nazi" and whatever race religious card they can play to get that person to shut up.
Unfortunately it works very effectively.