Punisher vs Bizarro Superman

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Its been stated that Punisher new sidekick is going be an expert at tech that will enable Punisher to hunt much more powerful opponents. That could possibly be herald level characters.

That would seriously piss me off.

The Punisher having A FEW weapons in his inventory capable of hurting top-tiers I can accept. Having him carry around Herald-pwning rifles as standard-issue? No. F***ing. Way.

What makes the Punisher stand-out in Marvel is that he's more grounded to Earth than most. He lets the metas handle metas threatening the globe/universe/multiverse, while he looks out for the domestic/international threats, whether its street gangs and drug cartels, or foreign governments and maniacal dictators. In Marvel's shared universe, he's bound to team up or clash with a few of the metas, but to shift the focus of the character that drastically would not make sense-- metas didn't kill his family; it was the mob.

I read the first issue of The Punisher: Dark Reign arc, and I really liked it. The idea of Frank using a Shi'iar sniper rifle made me cringe a bit, but I can deal with it. Taking out Norman Osborne makes sense. I haven't even had too big a problem with Punisher War Journal with the exception of Chaykin's "art" and some of Stuart Clarke's PIS-fueled inventions. However, Castle is much more effective wiping out the mob than spending more time and effort trying to bring down guys like The Wrecker and The Absorbing Man, who probably don't even cause as much harm as normal criminals.

With that said, I can buy into the idea of some of Frank's weapons hurting top-tiers, but not to the point where it's enough to bring them down. Bizarro ftw.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
So you close the other thread, but not this one?

Come on :/

this one is next.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ive forgotten the characters name but he can manipulate time, black guy.

He was able to manipluate time in a certain way that he was able to own Superman.

Obvoulsy just because you have a time machine does not mean that you can defintely do what this guy did because he manipluated it a specfic way.

However since Tony Stark has actually built a time machine and Black Panther has as well ( not to sure about him but he has many), we cant rule out the possibility that both characters can find a way to use time machines offensively.

Remember im not stating its definite im questioning the fact that you think its a foregone conclusion that it cant be done. Also theres a very good chance that Punisher will be taking on people like Dr Doom so you can imagine the level of tech hes going to have.

manipulating time itself and travelling through time are very different, as you said. i don't see stark or panther having the nous to use it offensively... assuming you even could. time itself is not a weapon, unless you manipulate the person's ability to progress in time (slowing them down or speeding them up).

i'd really need to see the instance you're talking about...

Originally posted by Raoul
this one is next.

Damn well better be....

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
That would seriously piss me off.

The Punisher having A FEW weapons in his inventory capable of hurting top-tiers I can accept. Having him carry around Herald-pwning rifles as standard-issue? No. F***ing. Way.

I dont think its going to be standard but I suspect he will be able to get it if pushed.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

What makes the Punisher stand-out in Marvel is that he's more grounded to Earth than most. He lets the metas handle metas threatening the globe/universe/multiverse, while he looks out for the domestic/international threats, whether its street gangs and drug cartels, or foreign governments and maniacal dictators. In Marvel's shared universe, he's bound to team up or clash with a few of the metas, but to shift the focus of the character that drastically would not make sense--

I can understand why you said that but with all due respect I think you need to read more Punisher. Eventhough Punisher family was gunned down by the mob his missions often overlap with superheroes. He frequently finds himself running into superheroes and super-villains. Hell in his orginail series he encountered Wolverine, Daredevil, Ghost Rider, Dr Doom, High Evolutinary, Captain America, Tombstone (crossover with DD), The Reavers and more....

Hell even some of the 'thugs' that try to take down Punisher have superhuman powers. In one issue he had to fight a bullet-proof ninja and a guy who could use chi on objects to determine where his victims where.

Punisher encountering meta is not rare in fact it is common place. The only difference now is that he focusing primarly on metas.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

metas didn't kill his family; it was the mob.

You could make the same argument with DD. His father wasnt killed by metas why does he face them? At the end of the day Punisher wants to punish the guilty supervillains are just mobsters with powers.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

I read the first issue of The Punisher: Dark Reign arc, and I really liked it. The idea of Frank using a Shi'iar sniper rifle made me cringe a bit, but I can deal with it.

Its a gun isnt it? Hell Punisher even used an exoskeleton to fight The Reavers and that was long before he met Stu. Punisher will use anything that works that he can operate. Punishers battlevan even had tentacles like Dr Ock.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

Taking out Norman Osborne makes sense. I haven't even had too big a problem with Punisher War Journal with the exception of Chaykin's "art" and some of Stuart Clarke's PIS-fueled inventions. However, Castle is much more effective wiping out the mob than spending more time and effort trying to bring down guys like The Wrecker and The Absorbing Man, who probably don't even cause as much harm as normal criminals.

What PIS fuelled inventions?

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Damn well better be....

you want me to leave it open?

Originally posted by Raoul

manipulating time itself and travelling through time are very different, as you said. i don't see stark or panther having the nous to use it offensively... assuming you even could. time itself is not a weapon, unless you manipulate the person's ability to progress in time (slowing them down or speeding them up).

Yes I understand that but like I said im not ruling out the possibility that since they built it they cant modify it.

Once you create something it leads onto the posibility that modifications can be made. Just the fact that that both BP and Tony Starks have used it to travel to different points in time leads to the possibility that could speed or slow down time.

Both Tony Starks and Bp were actually using time machines in order to attack each other bases.

Also bare in mind that BP has also used tech on Mephisto, he didnt use a time machine but I think it did utilise space (not sure abut time) but that sort of knowledge would be useful. BP isnt as smart as Doom or Reed but hes still very good

Originally posted by Raoul

i'd really need to see the instance you're talking about...

I think Galan would know I have pmed him but got no reply. But as I stated theres no guarantee that Tony or Bp could do the same. Im just throwing out the possibility that time could be manipulated offensively due to the fact that they can build time machines and we should consider their track record.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yes I understand that but like I said im not ruling out the possibility that since they built it they cant modify it.

Once you create something it leads onto the posibility that modifications can be made. Just the fact that that both BP and Tony Starks have used it to travel to different points in time leads to the possibility that could speed or slow down time.

Both Tony Starks and Bp were actually using time machines in order to attack each other bases.

Also bare in mind that BP has also used tech on Mephisto, he didnt use a time machine but I think it did utilise space (not sure abut time) but that sort of knowledge would be useful. BP isnt as smart as Doom or Reed but hes still very good

I think Galan would know I have pmed him but got no reply. But as I stated theres no guarantee that Tony or Bp could do the same. Im just throwing out the possibility that time could be manipulated offensively due to the fact that they can build time machines and we should consider their track record.

i'm just not seeming to get what you mean. using time as a weapon, do you mean devolving him? going back in time and killing him as a baby?

or do you mean pure, straight up blasts of temporal energy?

Originally posted by Raoul
you want me to leave it open?

I want you to be objective.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I want you to be objective.

i am. wolverine and sabretooth aren't going to use prep against bizarro. it was a bait thread.

this one is less-so.

it will be closed, i'm just interested in hearing about this temporal attack.

Originally posted by Raoul
i'm just not seeming to get what you mean. using time as a weapon, do you mean devolving him? going back in time and killing him as a baby?

or do you mean pure, straight up blasts of temporal energy?

To be quite honest with you im not even sure myself. All I know is that this guy had some time manipluating powers and he ****ed up Superman, how he did I dont know. Im not a genuis at tech but im pretty sure if Bp and Tony Starks were pushed they could think of something.

Just off the top of my head being able to pause time and put Superman in stasis or using similar tech to put him in some never ending time loop could possibly work, but of course easier said than done.

hey if they could cut him they win..........I mean with only human speed he be unable to touch them and he is a moron.

however it deffiently was a bait thread.

Originally posted by Raoul
i am. wolverine and sabretooth aren't going to use prep against bizarro. it was a bait thread.

this one is less-so.

it will be closed, i'm just interested in hearing about this temporal attack.

Bait?

Please.

Originally posted by Galan007
My point is that anyone (literally) can beat Supes/Biz with the "right knowledge and tech."

The thing is, there are a very slim few whom possess the resources/intelligence to actually do so. Plain and simple.

I'll give you that, (so long as Punisher's armorer is either Doom, or Reed.)

KAAAAAANG!!!

Originally posted by Raoul
i am. wolverine and sabretooth aren't going to use prep against bizarro. it was a bait thread.

this one is less-so.

it will be closed, i'm just interested in hearing about this temporal attack.

For the life of my I cant remember the guys name.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
hey if they could cut him they win..........I mean with only human speed he be unable to touch them and he is a moron.

however it deffiently was a bait thread.

if he lifts up a skyscraper and throws it at them, they going to dodge that? 😛

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Bait?

Please.

thank you?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
To be quite honest with you im not even sure myself. All I know is that this guy had some time manipluating powers and he ****ed up Superman, how he did I dont know. Im not a genuis at tech but im pretty sure if Bp and Tony Starks were pushed they could think of something.

Just off the top of my head being able to pause time and put Superman in stasis or using similar tech to put him in some never ending time loop could possibly work, but of course easier said than done.

mhmm

so alf your entire arguement is based off not only a one time feat........which in it self would make it rather bad evidences......but you don't even know the issue number or what truelly conspired in the issue..........right.........now.......do.......you.......still.......try.......and........say.....your......not.......reaching?

Originally posted by Raoul
if he lifts up a skyscraper and throws it at them, they going to dodge that? 😛

thank you?

mhmm

but were he gunna get a sky scraper in a featureless enviorment?

i'm going to close this for now. PZ, if you think of the name or the issue number, i might be tempted to re-open, but for now, i don't see a reason to keep it open, as it will only turn sour.

Ok, i just checked.

It's a comic book called JLA/Planetary: Terra Occulta. credit to Bentley and PZ for clueing me in.

The instance seems to be a localised time field that increases or decreases the passing of time to an insane level.

Also, its an elseworlds, tale, so technically, its not canon, not is it Superman as we know him.