Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Hes described as the destroyer of galaxies the same way galactus is called the devourer of planets thats not their actual power limit,b-13 and warworlds energies are insignificant compared to imperiexes,imperiexes bio plainly says the power of the big bang.
Think about it, if his got said so energies why not just unleash it, why does he involve Earth at all?
Proof of Imperiex bigbang energies other than what it is said on teh bio.. It is not a legitimate source, less u've got somethin to back it up, take a look at Surfers fighting skills in Marvel database its at 6 to a 7, his good but not that good..
Anyhow we can agree to dis agree.. Later..
Originally posted by skygunner41
EARTH,the center of any comic company universe. Earth fall everywhere else fall. Unless of course the writer of comic actually from Saturn or Neptune so the status quo of earth is still remain the primary focus point of the entire DC U.So if big bang is going to happen it will happen at earth.
You miss the point. It was stated, on panel, that Imperiex wanted to destroy Earth because if it did, it would trigger a Big Bang and remake the DCU. Because of Earth-One being the anchor of reality.
Originally posted by Enyalus
You miss the point. It was stated, on panel, that Imperiex wanted to destroy Earth because if it did, it would trigger a Big Bang and remake the DCU. Because of Earth-One being the anchor of reality.
Hence the primary focus point of the entire DCU.what so difficult to grasp that.
Originally posted by Ambient
Its been mentioned a few times on panel that Imperiex requires to hallow Earth one transforming said so energy into quanta for him to ignite inducing a bigbang..Think about it, if his got said so energies why not just unleash it, why does he involve Earth at all?
Proof of Imperiex bigbang energies other than what it is said on teh bio.. It is not a legitimate source, less u've got somethin to back it up, take a look at Surfers fighting skills in Marvel database its at 6 to a 7, his good but not that good..
Anyhow we can agree to dis agree.. Later..
Originally posted by EnyalusDon't be a quitter
Hey Vlaaad, I know that wasn't directed at me, but I'd just like to say clearly that [b]I've dropped that line of reasoning. You made a good case, and the bio explicitly states it (even though the comic contradicts the bio on several occasions.)So, no more shit from me about that particular thing. [/B]
Dude, umm please quote my posts next time ok. Thank you, because it’s a ***** replying to them this way.
Originally posted by The Great Galen
Max had extensive knowledge and very privliiaged information on clark, not to mention he had been working extensivly for years untill he finally managed to break into supes mind. It was a lengthy process that required years of study, and it was only possible given Max's relationship to the leauge. Despero mindraped both Aquaman and manhunter but was unable to accomplish a mindrape on supes, SS would not want to enter into the battle of the minds especially since I seem to remember SS easily falling prey to the mental influences of carnage.
It took Max years of practice and training in telepathic abilities. That doesn’t change the fact, that Max, a low level telepath accomplished it. The raw power and skill Norrin has trumps all that training and practice.
When did Despero out right fail to mind rape Superman? What arc?
I just cannot seem to remember.
Are your referring to the “Crisis of Conscience” arc where Clark was simply the last one standing?
Carnage is a symbiotic being, and Norrin managed to expel him in the end anyways.
Originally posted by The Great Galen
As I've said, supes has displayed nearly instant recover while in the rays of the sun whenever his energy has been absorbed. He even overloaded a machine that was specifically designed to absorb his energy and If I'm not mistaken SS went mad trying to absorb a fraction of the sun. Draining would simply be a lesson in futility becauses supes will constantly be recovered, it will be like attempting to drain a ocean with a small bucket. The dramatic boast in his amps further make this tactic impossible or at least highly unlikly.
So you basically ignored everything else I said, for example about the fact that Triumph would have been able to accomplish this and Starfire no less could do it to other Kryptonian’s in battle which was less than a month ago?
Silver Surfer, was absorbing the energy of an entire Star. Draining Clark is valid tactic, if less than a month ago; this ability was being used on other Kryptonian’s by someone vastly inferior to Norrin. Norrin could accomplish what a simple machine failed to do.
Superman has been drained before if I remember and has been weakened. I mean how difficult a task would it be for Norrin to simply “block” the Solar Energy in Clark’s cells from the rest of his body. It wouldn’t even be draining Clark, simply denying his body the access to the solar reserves. Clark himself said that this would kill him, to Triumph if I remember. It would take Norrin only a thought to accomplish this.
Superman has been shown also to take time to recover from Yellow Solar deprivation, and Norrin has other tactics besides draining like I stated.
Originally posted by The Great Galen
I've never seen this tactic ever applied offensivly to be honest, it's more a forum myth then something I recall seeing ever done in a comic.
Why not? This is a somewhat ruthless Silver Surfer who would not hesitate to unleash that type of attack.
What would hinder him?
It is directly in his power set. I mean Star Dust opened a rip in space while in combat, and compared to this Norrin, Star Dust is pathetic. All it would take is a look and a thought, and no more Clark.
Originally posted by The Great Galen
Supes has peak herald stats and is one of the most imposing physical characters you can find, it's difficult to find a character who has the speed,strength and durability supes normally operates on. If competing againt KC Supes,Gog,sourcE power infinity man, Doomsday, Darkseid, Superman Prime don't give a indication to his physical abilities...I don't know what well. From the infinity man example, I don't know to which extent he was amplifed but it he was clearly very powerful...and yet supes managed to injury him with his fist. SS on the otherhand, cannot evens sracth Thanos and falls like brick whenever Thanos lays a single punch into him...who characters like Thor,champion,gamora and drax by direct comparion seem to have a easiar time with.
Peak Herald stats compared to who?
Wow, why are you resorting to this? Listing the ups of Clark and resorting to the lows of Silver Surfer…
Seriously, crap like this is pointless, because I can do the exact same. I guess if you want to this so bad I’ll humor you.
Gog depends on the incarnation and Gog depending on incarnation has kicked Superman’s ass depending on the situation. Darkseid or as I like to call him, Jobberseid does exactly like his name sake suggests. He jobbers to different opponents mainly Superman, and depending on the writer, he has fluctuated. Some of his losses were retconned but the fact that Superman has literally ripped him to pieces, shows he isn’t exactly that impressive any more.
Superman Prime, would manhandle Clark. I mean in a weakened state, Clark and a bunch of other heroes dog piled on him and they still couldn’t take him down. The moment the Sun’s rays touched him in Sinestro Corp’s he threw them of with a shrug. Hell he was taking on Clark, Supergirl and both Corps a bit in the end.
It took two Supermen to force Superboy Prime into a Red Star (Nice durability feat for Clark by the way)…
Thanos would manhandle Clark in a fight in my opinion. Drax is Thanos’ silver bullet, hence why he killed him so easily. He was designed for it.
Thor did beat the Thanos during the “Final Morning” arc, but he had magical weapons from Odin enchanted with the remaining Odin Force (Other than Mjolnir), and he also had the Belt of Strength that more than doubled his strength (The same belt he used when he cracked through the entire armor of the Celestial). He also was able to cause Thanos severe harm by crushing the Stone of Illumination.
Like I always say, context is very important, and Thor is a power house and losing to him is nothing to be ashamed of. That story arc was an amazing show of strength and durability for Thor. Very impressive, seeing as to what damage he could take from Thanos even with all that power the Titan had and what power Thor himself was able to unleash. That was simply an impressive showing, all around for Thor in my opinion.
Champion is a jobber, and would be easily man handled by Thanos. He has a great deal of potential as he taps into the power primordial but even with the Power Gem, he is a great jobber.
Gamora, was trained by Thanos, and she is dangerous with the God Slayer, and an impressive character, but she would get brushed aside by Thanos.
Originally posted by The Great Galen
Right, Supes endured a explosion from a couple feat away that destroyed a nebula sized sun eater lol, the potency of that blast is true insanity.
That blast was an implosion that was directed into Wildfire’s suit or something along those lines and was an implosion. The Legionnaire ship was right beside the Sun-Eater if I remember correctly and was not even rocked.
Post-Crisis Superman was pretty weak to an extent. Him being able to survive a Nebula sized destroying blast is ridiculous based on what was able to take him down in other comics, hence why the entire implosion, Wildfire scenario etc.
Originally posted by The Great Galen
His HV output is more intense and potent then any previously measured heat reading, this comes from DC earth scientist who are more advanced then real world experts.....bascially the upper know limit for his HV is unknown.
If we are talking about the same Type 2 Supernova, his heat vision is superior to his strength.
Are you referring to the time, that news reporter, said that they couldn’t measure the amount of energy Superman can discharge by the “standard” scientific forms of measure, because he derives his power directly from the Sun?
How can you base that Superman’s heat vision is more powerful than a core collapse Supernova from that?
Are you referring to another instance?
Originally posted by The Great Galen
I know of SS feats, not taking anything away from him. However, given the match stipulation I don't see SS being able to win....to many disadvantages.
Top many disadvantages?
He has more advantages than Clark. Physically, who wins is debatable, but throw in abilities, such as making a black hole in Clark’s chest, should give him the advantage.
Originally posted by The Great Galen
Supes contained a micro black hole in the palm of his hand, and he did escape the velocity of 2 blackholes....oh and he has even displayed some very impressive resistence against K-nite.
That thing he held in the palm of his hand, cannot be classified as black hole based on characteristics.
Superman is faster than light, so Clark managing to escape the gravitational pull from further than an event horizon isn’t far fetched. Over powering is one thing, out running is another.
Originally posted by The Great Galen
In terms of combat speed, it isn't even disputed..supes is his superior. Supes movement is second only to flash, and since movement is the base for all physical action we know just how fast supes can fight. SS speed is derived from his board, while he can use the speed of his board offensivly he has never used it the effect supes has shown. Supes fights like a speedster, while sun-dipped....supes would literally be a blur to SS whom has shown very poor combat related reflexes in the past. It would be similar to the fight SS had with runner, except Supes would be operating on near PC Supes stats.
In raw speed, who is superior is debatable, but in combat speed, Clark should be more experienced etc. simply based on the way he fights, as Norrin does not used his speed to much in combat, but that doesn’t mean Norrin is incapable of using speed in a fight.
Superman would be a blur to Norrin?
Norrin flies at speeds way beyond light like Clark, he has telepathic abilities, his reflexes and timing are easily beyond nano seconds, and he can calculate objects and their velocity so greatly, he can intercept teleporters. Clark would not be a blur to Norrin, far from it.
Throw in the fact, that Norrin is also upgraded as well, and that is underestimating Silver Surfer greatly.
Silver Surfer, has very impressive reflexes simply based on his method of travel….
Pre-Crisis Superman > Sun dipped current Superman
Pre-Crisis Superman was simply written differently and his powers had no logic behind it. I mean he simply does whatever he needs to win; he was even given powers on the spot.
Pre-Crisis Superman could be given, Kryptonite vision in a fight against other Kryptonian’s and I wouldn’t even bother complaining.
Originally posted by The Great Galen
SS matter manip can all be at somepoint countered, with the exception of k-nite and red solar energy...SS can't throw anything at Supes that he has encountered and overcome a million times before.
Countered by what? Clark does not have any matter manipulation I’m aware of.
Norrin can turn the blood in his vessels to lead or something along those lines.
Muscle and strength are really not that significant against an opponent who can screw with your inner mechanisms on every level.
Superman has nothing to directly counter, Norrin turning Clark nervous system into a pain making machine etc. Superman’s inside is not as durable as inside (To an extent) as proven by characters such as Manchester Black.
Originally posted by The Great Galen
SS can't match him though, he isn't near as strong nor as fast and the fight stipulation is a "pure brawl". At his base, supes did to thor what SS couldn't do on 2 seperate occasions even with a amp....and that's with the aid of all his"versatility". SS can't defend well agaisnt speed as seen in his fight with runner, and while I'm not claiming supes is as fast as runner....runner is one of the few characters SS has fought agaisnt that applies speed in a similar manner to Supes. Really any advantage SS has with his versatility is pretty much nullified without the ability to manufacture red sun radiation or K-nite...and we all know trying to engage supes physically would just be suicide.
Isn’t nearly as strong or as fast?
Based on what, exactly as in the past at his weakest state ever, Norrin has beaten the crap out of the Warbound, and the same Green Scar who held the tectonic plates of his planet together, matched Thor in strength etc (Not trying to get into a feat naming competition as that would take all day but simply showing examples that Norrin is definitely comparable).
This was all in his base. Silver Surfer can augment his strength to incredible levels and it seems here he is at those levels.
He and Clark have both been amped to “undefined” levels, so how can you say with a straight face, that one is stronger than the other, when we do not know the limit of either?
How is Silver Surfer not nearly as fast?
He like Clark can easily travel beyond light speed without any effort. He is also extremely augmented here, so again this is debatable
Who said that this fight is a pure brawl? Where is this written?
The thread starter never said this, so how is this fight simply a pure brawl?
When Superman, “barely” managed to bit Thor in a fist fight, where they were fighting to Clark’s strength’s (Clark would have an easier time fighting against Thor in a brawl than in a versatility fight) and stand up straight, and Thor was still down played in that fight as obvious to the showing. Superman was also down played to an extent.
Using that fight, is an inaccurate showing of both characters, more so for Thor, especially seeing as what damage he has taken in the past, and what damage a punch from the Superman of that “time” could unleash.
I am referring to the cannon fight right? I get the fight that some consider cannon and the other fights confused a great deal, for some reason.
Again, you use losing to Thor as something as a low feat, and when did Norrin get an amp to fight Thor?
Are you referring to the time he got an amp from Loki? That was when Norrin himself was weakened, and needed the amp to stand a chance if I remember and his versatility wasn’t actually used in that fight and neither was Thor’s.
The Runner is one thing but Clark is another. Besides, Norrin has already proven in the past, on different occasions, that he has the necessary abilities to counter Clark’s speed.
Ok, so the fact that Silver Surfer, can manipulate matter and energy, open up black holes etc, is nullified?
Dude, Superman isn’t indestructible. Even current Superman has been hurt by much less than what Norrin can offer.
It’s as if in your eyes, nothing short of Kryptonite and red Solar radiation can even harm him.
How hard would it be for Norrin to transform the material in Clark’s lungs to adamantium etc.
With his abilities, all you have to do is use the imagination.
It wouldn’t be suicide, again I believe you are underplaying Norrin.
Originally posted by The Great Galen
Physical stats, Supes>SS
Versatility, SS>SupesMatch with a "pure brawl"stipulation, Supes>SS
You can not clearly state that Superman is superior to Silver Surfer physically.
This is highly debatable as both have been severely augmented. Superman has the advantage in speed during combat, but Norrin has his own advantages that even things out, so this is highly debatable.
Who said this is a pure brawl though? Everything except Kryptonite and red Solar radiation is valid.
I mean Clark superiority is debatable here as well but this is not a pure brawl so it’s irrelevant.
Let’s agree to disagree, then, as we are not getting anywhere.
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Actully, Max Lord was able to control Superman because he has been attacking his mind for years. Slowly he was able to take over Superman, but he did not attack him directly. Despero actually did fail and his TK is better then MM. I'll try to find it.
Still doesn't change the fact, that a minor telepath like Max succedded.
When did Despero out right fail to control Clark's mind? Mind telling me the issue or arc, I can't seem to recall it.
Are you referring to the "Crisis of Conscience" arc, where Clark was simply the only one standing and Zatanna simply came in to save the day?
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Actually, SS can do it if Superman stands still. Will Superman stand still 😕
What makes you think a moving target would hinder Silver Surfer?
I mean Triump would have done it, and Starfire, an energy manipulator who is laughable compared to Norrin was doing to different Kryptonian’s in flight.
Norrin was doing it to a rampaging Hulk if I remember, so why the hell would he be hindered?
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Nope, it's a perfect stategy.Since I don't know too much about SS, I've never seen him absorb energy will fighting a opponent who is most likely stronger.
If you don’t know too much then how can you judge what he can or cannot do?
Either way, he did to a Savage Hulk etc. In my opinion Superman being stronger is highly debatable because he might be amped by the Sun in this fight but Silver Surfer is also receiving a boost in power.
Honestly, Superman being stronger is highly debatable and in question as seeing as how Norrin can augment his strength on the spot and can possibly keep getting stronger while Clark who is already a highly fierce opponent, would have to say Sun dip again etc. to receive a high leap in strength again. So, yea….
At his base, while cut of from the Power Cosmic, and it his weakest, he was beating the crap out of the Green Scar, and the War Bound. The same Green Scar, who was able to hold together the tectonic plates of his planet etc.
Originally posted by xJLxKing
....can he doing it while fighting. Remember the fight start in the sun. Superman isn't going to stand there and wait a second. He will attack. At the best of his abilities.
Who says he can’t?
Stardust was able to open a tear in space while fighting and he is significantly inferior to this Silver Surfer.
Who says this fight stars in the Sun?
The thread creator clearly stated it starts on some rocky planet….
Superman can attack, and Norrin can probably turn the blood in his body into say solid adamantium etc.
I mean Superman isn’t "completely" immune to molecular manipulation, and to one who has at much, much weaker levels, has affected matter on a planetary scale, him doing something so simple isn’t out of question.
Originally posted by xJLxKing
....I am not going to reply to the other part. I will bet front. Besides this is all just opinions.
Ok.
This is just a brawl, so Surfer's not using any of his vast and myriad powers... just physical strength.
But we're all thinking about Surfer's physical strength in the normal cases- when he's also making shields, firing energy bolts, etc.
If Surfer was using all of his powers to amp nothing other than his strength- putting the amount of power cosmic that he normally uses for planet and armada destroying blasts into his already far past class 100 strength....
Personally, I think he'd be fairly frightening. Using Power Cosmic only for strength, speed, and flight?
He'd probably tear Superman apart.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Silver Surfer is allowed to use energy attacks, manipulation etc. so it isn't simply a pure brawl but nice point tjcoady.
Why is the thread titled "Pure Brawl?"
I read the first couple pages when it started up, but I've missed the last few. Did the battle's rules get changed?