Darkseid vs Depowered Tyrant

Started by Darkness_Within25 pages

it was non cannon crossover people and this isnt galactus this is tyrant, and if this was none bullshit darkseid he might hurt tyrant with the omega effect i said HURT i dont know about kill, and if the cross over was proper he would have also hurt galactus because even the spectre can be harmed NOT KILLED but harmed by the omega beams. This would be very interesting actually, because tyrant can control all technology but would he be able to control darkseids tech since darkseids tech is powered by darkseid himself?

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Nope he didn't, and it was a avatar.

Proof that it was an avatar? Face it man DS true self as been beaten by Supes before which even the biggest DS fans have admitted as one real win. Second, he got beat by Doomsday in his HOME WORLD with his home world getting laid to waste by DD. So, your when DD came to invade and wreck his home world DS sent out an avatar... lol makes sense. Show me scans of DS saying that was just an Avatar.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Proof that it was an avatar? Face it man DS true self as been beaten by Supes before which even the biggest DS fans have admitted as one real win. Second, he got beat by Doomsday in his HOME WORLD with his home world getting laid to waste by DD. So, your when DD came to invade and wreck his home world DS sent out an avatar... lol makes sense. Show me scans of DS saying that was just an Avatar.

DS was a avatar when he fought DD, and Galatus has been beaten before by Thor and Thing so ur argument holds no weight.

Originally posted by Darkness_Within
it was non cannon crossover people and this isnt galactus this is tyrant, and if this was none bullshit darkseid he might hurt tyrant with the omega effect i said HURT i dont know about kill, and if the cross over was proper he would have also hurt galactus because even the spectre can be harmed NOT KILLED but harmed by the omega beams. This would be very interesting actually, because tyrant can control all technology but would he be able to control darkseids tech since darkseids tech is powered by darkseid himself?

Nah, DS can however absorb Tyrants's PC.

Wow, Darkseid hasnt a snowballs chance in hell here! He is VASTLY overrated on this board.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
DS was a avatar when he fought DD, and Galatus has been beaten before by Thor and Thing so ur argument holds no weight.

Show me the scans saying it was an avatar?

Originally posted by tdawg14
Wow, Darkseid hasnt a snowballs chance in hell here! He is VASTLY overrated on this board.

That is soooooooo silly. Tyrant did what exacty? DS warped the multiverse and you think DS has not a snow ball's chance in hell? LMAO. I would call you a name but you pwned yourself.

Darkseid himself spelled it out. "They have only ever faced the idea of a god. Now is god himself incarnate among them!"

Originally posted by comicfan11
Nothing personal with OneDumbGO but I'm tired with your twisting of the on panel facts.

After 20 pages of this thread everyone can make his mind up about DS's feats.

I've proven that DS started dragging the Multiverse before Cain met the Spectre and you SAY IT DOESN'T MATTER because the Spectre did it.
So basically the Spectre did it ALTHOUGH DS had already done it.

How many times do I have to explain that you are completely mischaracterizing my argument? You never understood what I was saying in the first place. I know DS started dragging the Multiverse before Cain met the Spectre. I never said otherwise. You're not stating anything that undermines my assertion. Take the time to read what I write instead of rushing to figure out some way to generalize or rebut what I'm saying. This is what I mean when I say it doesn't matter: "Cain commanding Spectre to speak the ALE and un-make creation and rebuild the world is not dispositive of Darkseid dragging down the Multiverse either with or without the ALE. If the Multiverse is being progressively dragged down, can the unmaking of creation or rebuilding of the world be hastened through the ALE (as interpreted by Morrison and I)? The obvious answer is yes."

This entire time you've been mistating my assertion because you didn't read it clearly enough. I never said Spectre was the only one speaking the ALE and un-making creation/rebuilding the world/warping reality. I never said if Spectre did it, then he did it first before the Multiverse started collpasing and that is the reason why it couldn't have been Darkseid's own power. That's what you've been erroneously mischaracterizing my assertion as. That's why I've been saying straw-man. The simple fact is this: Cain's and Spectre's on-panel words and actions support that the ALE is more than mind-control.

Originally posted by comicfan11
Also Morrison states what the ALE is and you doubt his writings.
In the same page of the SF Morison.
You twist what the page says BECAUSE YOU CONVENIENTLY LEFT OUT THE PART WHERE MORRISON RETCONS ALL OTHER VERSIONS OF THE ALE.
The paragraph which starts "However".
Incorrect. I specifically addressed the paragraph that starts with "However:"
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
"The Anti-Life Equation took humanoid form, declaring itself to be one half of a composite yin/yang being with "the Source" itself as a counterpart." Again, plain meaning = Anti-Life Equation is more than just a simple mind-control spell. Despite this limited definition being proven wrong since the Source contains all, the fact that the Anti-Life Equation can manifest itself in different forms already proves that your narrow interpretation of it as a mere mind-control spell is wrong. Ultimate concept. Morrison's own words. Strike two.
Once again, you are not reading what I write. You gloss over it and completely mischaracterize it. I don't think you're doing it purposely, but that doesn't make your argumentation any less weak.
Originally posted by comicfan11
AND FOR THE FINAL TIME DS USED THE ALE IN THE WAR.
IT DOESN'T SAY IN WHAT CAPACITY JUST THAT HE DID.
LIKE HE DID IN FC when he SIMPLY MIND CONTROLLED THE PEOPLE.
Don't act as if you've been stating that Darkseid did use the ALE in the cosmic war. You've consistently stated that "Darkseid could/might/maybe have used the ALE" in the cosmic war. It's obvious why you kept it open-ended like that, because you didn't even want to admit that Darkseid did use the ALE in the cosmic war. Just look at all your posts before:
Originally posted by comicfan11
DS might have the ALE during the war.
Originally posted by comicfan11
And the ALE probably helped in the war.
Originally posted by comicfan11
DS could be in possesion of the ALE and that helped him win the war.
And here you are, typing in all CAPS, essentially screaming like you've been saying that Darkseid did use the ALE in the war? No. That's what I've been saying. I've directly addressed your exact words and reasoning. And in turn, you actually resort to stealing my exact words and reasoning? And then you pound me over the head with my own reasoning like I haven't beenm listening? Outrageous. But let me continue addressing your exact words and reasoning nonetheless.

While the scan does not say exactly how Darkseid used the ALE in the war, what Grant Morrison says is unequivocally clear, "Darkseid's recent mastery of the Anti-Life Equation precipitated a disastrous war in heaven which resulted in the "death" of the New Gods and Darkseid's subsequent catastrophic fall into the material world." Look up what "precipitate" means. It doesn't mean "rain." It doesn't mean "precede" either. It means "abruptly caused." These are Grant Morrison's own words. Darkseid's recent mastery of the Anti-Life Equation abruptly caused the cosmic war which had two results: 1) killed the New Gods; and 2) caused Darkseid to die/fall through the Multiverse. So how can you possibly divorce what Darkseid does in Final Crisis from the ALE? Especially since the cosmic war itself broke time and space and spacetime crumpling = Multiverse being dragged?

Originally posted by fangirl101
DS warped the multiverse and you think DS has not a snow ball's chance in hell?
that's not a combat feat

Originally posted by comicfan11
I guess denial is your strong suit in this thread.
We clearly see the effects in the exact moment DS is reborn AFTER THE WAR and AFTER HIS FIRST REBIRTH IN BOSS DS but you just can't face the fact of how powerful Morrison portrayed DS.
That's ok since you don't get to wright the comics and I think everyone will agree that ANY WRITERS PERSONAL VIEWS>>YOUR VIEWS.
Ad hominem. Now you're accusing me of personal bias and ignoring Morrison. I've been quoting Morrison. I've been quoting multiple characters from Final Crisis. I've been posting scans. You can accuse me all you want of being biased against Darkseid's personal power. But the amount of straw-man argumentation, misreading and blatant pretending that you've carried on throughout this argument makes it painfully clear that you can't take the idea of an all-powerful Darkseid w/o ALE being threatened.
Originally posted by comicfan11
You talk about "common sense dictates..."
Who cares about common sense?
That pretty much sums up the nature of your arguments. Ignoring the plain meaning of the words is the most basic logical fallacy there is.
Originally posted by comicfan11
THIS IS COMICS.
THE WRITER WRITES SOMETHING=WHAT HAPPENS IN THE BOOK

Sorry I find no more reason to respond to your posts anymore (in this thread)
See you in another one.

I know when a writer writes something=happens in the book. That's why I've been quoting Mr Miracle, Motherboxxx, Cain, Spectre, even Morrison himself. So why do you keep trying to undermine it? Why can't we trust what Mr Miracle and Motherboxxx say? Apparently:
Originally posted by comicfan11
Mister Miracle doesn't know what happened exactly because he is NOT A NEW GOD.
Weak argument. You don't even address the fact that Motherboxxx itself is an actual survivor of the war.

Why isn't Cain's and Spectre's on-panel words and actions with the ALE trustworthy? You never even addressed this. You just ignored the words they actually use, "un-make creation," "rebuild the world." You just kept mischaracterizing my argument as, "You're wrong because the Multiverse was collapsing before Spectre spoke the ALE." No kidding. You completely missed the point, like four times. At least Tricksterpriest tried to come up with this excuse:

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Spectre's unmaking of creation was TO REMOVE FREE WILL, the gift of the Presence, and the thing that defines creation itself.

Anything else, like earth becoming Apokolips 2, is a reflection of that, or caused by the Spectre-force being chained by cain.

So the term "creation" actually only means "free will. " And "rebuild the world" only means "take over people's minds." How convenient. That is clearly a strenuous interpretation because you completely ignore the plain meaning of the words.

Spectre was compelled to specifically speak the Anti-Life Equation. Cain using the ALE to take over Spectre's will and commanding him to use the Spectre-force to change things is another convenient interpretation that blatantly ignores that Spectre speaks the ALE.

Finally... why can't we simply take Morrison's own words that it was Darkseid's mastery of the ALE that abruptly caused the cosmic war which broke time and space? Apparently, it's because you believe that any of my argumentation is mere twisting and based on haterade and therefore unreliable. It doesn't change what Morrison says though. For you to ignore it is hypocrisy. The war didn't start until he had mastery of the ALE. In fact, the mastery of the ALE abruptly caused the cosmic war. That cosmic war broke time and space. And somehow, we have to divorce any idea of Darkseid using the ALE in subsequent events barring simple mind-control?

Comicfan11 and others, you have abandoned so many positions and made so many excuses, it'd take too long to enumerate them all. Some of the most blatant examples being Superman made two wishes, the Multiverse breaking down has nothing to do with spacetime crumpling, dying Darkseid w/o ALE has bigger feats than healthy Darkseid w/ ALE. Your numbers alone don't justify this kind of obnoxious posturing. Weak arguments, constant excuses, hypocrisies, blatant fallacious methods of argumentation, declarations of victory and trying to move onto another subject don't pass for a winning argument. But until you decide to revisit this, nuff said.

OneDumb again for FTW. give up guys.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
So how can you possibly divorce what Darkseid does in Final Crisis from the ALE? Especially since the cosmic war itself broke time and space and spacetime crumpling = Multiverse being dragged?

We can divorce it because it is not consistent with the way the ALE was portrayed in said story and in many other stories preceeding FC. It doesn't break time and space, it doesn't fold space and crumple time it erases free will and enslaves souls.

The ALE is Darkseid's idea of complete victory made operational, because DS idea of victory is to first break the spirit of his conquests before any destruction takes place, it's what he calls "complete victory".

As per FC the death of the fourth world would have broken down the concepts of time and space and turned them into something else, this doesn't equate to dragging the multiverse.

The feat was attributed to a singularity that was drawing the whole multiverse into DS' hell.

What the ALE was attributed to was DS transfroming all life into his body, his church, this is the effect the ALE was having as DS seeked to replace god by reshaping life.

Dragging the multiverse was the means to ensure that no life escaped, the ALE was the means with which he would become the supreme being.

You keep repeating the same old same old OneDumb!! IT is FACT Darkseid did all of this while in a weakened state, while on Oa the Lanterns said "Spacetime around the Earth just crumpled like it was crushed with a Fist. Weeks smashed into Days". FACT that happened AFTER the war. Darkseid while at the end of the battle with Orion in the Fourth World had his heart ripped out and fell in the black hole where his heart was and once is mere presence was in the multiverse it began to fall apart FACT! The war is what caused Darkseid and Orion to have there final battle and caused Orion to be so enraged he injured DS to a great degree that it caused this and his fall by ripping his heart out and the black hole sucking him down to the multiverse... REread FC and all the tie-ins again 😉 Give respect when respect is do...

Originally posted by Starscream M
that's not a combat feat

Who cares? The LT warps megaverses so we know that He can beat anything that is less than megaversal with ease. DS can beat anything that falls with ina multiverse since he can literally fold it like an accordian.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
OneDumb again for FTW. give up guys.

only marvel Strokers give him the win. Seriously. His argument fails on so many levels and is aweful. Anyone knows that the war in heaven had Infinite showings of the same battle. What we saw in Countdown and DOTNG was just one possibility of what happened.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
OneDumb again for FTW. give up guys.
Originally posted by fangirl101
only marvel Strokers give him the win. Seriously. His argument fails on so many levels and is awful. Anyone knows that the war in heaven had Infinite showings of the same battle. What we saw in Countdown and DOTNG was just one possibility of what happened.
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Darkseid himself spelled it out. "They have only ever faced the idea of a god. Now is god himself incarnate among them!"

Bullshit. Then how do you explain every time Superman and other DC heroes showing up to the 4th world via boom tube and beating up Darkseid? Are you saying that they were only beating up ideas of the NGs in the 4th World?


fangirl101

Anyone knows that the war in heaven had Infinite showings of the same battle. What we saw in Countdown and DOTNG was just one possibility of what happened.

What you babbling about now? Are there alternate 4th Worlds in the DCU or something? Did I miss something?

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Bullshit. Then how do you explain every time Superman and other DC heroes showing up to the 4th world via boom tube and beating up Darkseid? Are you saying that they were only beating up ideas of the NGs in the 4th World?

Darkseid's avatars do live in the fourth world as well and sit on his throne in Apokolips.