Originally posted by Gideon
The series represents a higher place in canon authority than the rest of the Expanded Universe.And I have a hard time believing that General Grievous was somehow inferior to Asajj Ventress, since every piece of literature either says, shows, or implies otherwise.
Didn't Grievous force Obi Wan to flee in the series, while Obi Wan forced Ventress to flee in the movie?
Originally posted by GideonPerhaps I'm reading this wrong. Are you implying that the duel in CD has been rendered invalid?
The series represents a higher place in canon authority than the rest of the Expanded Universe.
And I have a hard time believing that General Grievous was somehow inferior to Asajj Ventress, since every piece of literature either says, shows, or implies otherwise.Labyrinth of Evil and even the TCW each have Dooku lecturing Grievous on his fallibility as a combatant.
LoE:
"'Power moves served you [Grievous] well on Hypori against Jedi such as Daakman Barrek and Tarr Seir. But I pity you should you have to face off against any of the Council Masters.'
[Dooku] called into hand his courtly, curve-handled lightsaber and drew a rapid X in the air - - a Makashi flourish.
'Do I need to demonstrate what responses you can expect from Cin Drallig or Obi-Wan Kenobi? From Mace Windu or, stars help you, Yoda?'
He flicked his blade quickly, ridding two of the guards of their staffs, then placing the glowing tip a millimeter from Grievous's death-helmeted visage.
'Finesse. Artfulness. Economy. Otherwise, my friend, I fear that you will end up beyond the repair of even the Geonosians. Do you take my meaning?'"
TCW:
"Don't let your pursuit of trinkets cloud your reality. Remember what I taught you, General. If you are to succeed in combat against the best of the Jedi, you must have fear, surprise, and intimidation on your side. But if any one element is lacking, it would be best for you to retreat. You must break them before you engage them. Only then will you ensure victory and have your trophy."
Dooku also makes mention of Ventress twice in LoE in that same section; once to note how he deplored the habit of collecting lightsabers, as she, Grievous and the "lesser" Aurra Sing did, and again when musing that he had allowed Grievous to fill himself with hatred, as had Ventress and Darth Maul before him. Neither Dooku nor the narrator ever note Grievous to be a superior warrior to Ventress.
Originally posted by LightsnakeWho?
In LoE, though, Grievous pretty much butchers skilled Jedi head on, including a Council Member/Former Council member.
The indications are that Grievous is the best of the Count's servants....based on what we know, I'd personally place Ventress below Grievous and Sora Bulq.I'd probably put her below Bulq. But at this point, the General's ability in regards to upper-tier duelists is suspect.
Originally posted by Gideon
The series represents a higher place in canon authority than the rest of the Expanded Universe.And I have a hard time believing that General Grievous was somehow inferior to Asajj Ventress, since every piece of literature either says, shows, or implies otherwise.
which series? I think you are referring to the new CW cartoons and if you aren't maybe you and others can shed some light on this question.
how cannon is the new CW series? I'd say it beats out the novels and comics and the other CWC series because didn't Lucas have more influence in the new CW series?
Against an Anakin who is, by nature tapping into his dark side, is a greater saber master than he was as a Knight, probably surpassing a level when he was able to duel and kill people as Dooku and Cin Drallig...Vader's demonstrated substantial prowess with a saber and his lack of agility aside, he's certainly down with his saber skills.
Don't forget that Anakin was able to outduel and kill Cin Drallig with one hand while devoting some his attention to force choking Bene.
Originally posted by LightsnakeAnd yet, he still frequently mourns his comparative lack of power. When he used the dark side as Jedi he would tap into his essentially unlimited reserves of power; he no longer has that advantage as Vader.
Against an Anakin who is, by nature tapping into his dark side,
is a greater saber master than he was as a Knight, probably surpassing a level when he was able to duel and kill people as Dooku and Cin Drallig...See the above.
Vader's demonstrated substantial prowess with a saber and his lack of agility aside, he's certainly down with his saber skills.Better than he was in RotS or earlier? Doubtful.
Don't forget that Anakin was able to outduel and kill Cin Drallig with one hand while devoting some his attention to force choking Bene.First off, he was he choking Bene with his hand, not the Force. Second, we never saw how that fight ended. Third, that was Vader before the suit; this isn't.
We do know how the fight ended, actually:
"Drallig tried to fend off Vader with the help of two of his students, Whie and Bene, but Vader cut them down."
-- the Complete Encyclopedia, Cin Drallig's entry, page 205.
The fact that he was fending the fabled swordsmaster off while grappling with the Bene speaks of casual mastery over Drallig who, I reiterate, is a fabled swordsmaster.
The Rise of Darth Vader also points out that Vader was able to use elements of all seven lightsaber forms into a unique style that led to the deaths of several Jedi Knights in single combat. While he certainly isn't as agile or as quick, there's no reason to assume that his mastery of both the lightsaber or the Force diminished or that he couldn't have focused on improving both of them, despite his anatomical state.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
And no. Ventress most certainly does NOT win in a saber duel.
Listen, I know Vader looks bad ass and all of that but come on. Ventress would floor Vader due to mobility alone. She's agile, powerful and has considerable skill. Vader's skill has decreased quite considerably, especially after his incident on Mustafar.
Originally posted by Forum Ninja
Listen, I know Vader looks bad ass and all of that but come on. Ventress would floor Vader due to mobility alone. She's agile, powerful and has considerable skill. Vader's skill has decreased quite considerably, especially after his incident on Mustafar.
No, vader's SPEED has decreased. If anything his skill has increased. I would never claim that he is ROTS Anakin's equal in swordsmanship, but lets not make wild claims about his skills actually diminishing after the injury. He just had to "change" his skills.