starkiller vs sephiroth

Started by niduin12 pages

he has never had a need to use that much power, ill admit i dont KNOW that he is that powerfull in tk im simply assuming that he can but its true that isnt a good enough argument and this statement is not an argument. i simply want you to realize sephiroths potensial i hope you all read the link i sent, then you might have a higher opinion of him, not saying that it would change your mind just saying that you might realize that your underplaying him.

i also realize that there isnt enough "proof" that seph is stronger in tk so im not going to argue that anymore, we cant prove either way that either one is stronger in tk so we should stop trying

His potential could be weak in the eyes of characters of higher feats anyway, simply thinking "maybe" is not good enough, most characters in gaming could have that said about them.

Originally posted by Burning thought
His potential could be weak in the eyes of characters of higher feats anyway, simply thinking "maybe" is not good enough, most characters in gaming could have that said about them.
what are you responding to? if its my last post then you just completely missread what i said, i am saying that you cant prove it im not saying maybe about anything

Originally posted by JustFrame
It seems we can never get anywhere again without cussing happening, the fact that you can't even refute any of my statements is what I find puzzling.

First off, you say Telekinesis is different from Telepathy, which is indeed true, however you still have not comprehended the biggest main point that I was point out, that Telekinesis requires a powerful mind in order for it to work. Which in case...Sephiroth has proven that he has a powerful mind by the multiple and many feats that he has displayed holding back his true strength.

Sephiroth cutting through the metal wasn't as impressive and "isn't" as advance as the metal's in Star Wars? Seriously, do we even know what kind of metals the VII universe uses? If we don't even know how powerful their metal is...how can you possibly assume that they are "inferior"? Speculation is all that you are basing this on.

The fact remains simple on the basics of the Lightsaber, you don't seem to want to comprehend that the Lightsaber actually works within the modern knowledge and psychics of our reality. Sephiroth's Masamune does not even work on any realm of our reality at all.

That's why you see the lightsaber taking time to cut through something sturdy, thick, or hard, because it's going against a resisting force. Where as in the VII Universe, characters can cut through debris like if were paper. Yes, we do know the basics of the Lightsaber, and please, talk to most SW's fan about it, everyone knows this basic lightsaber knowledge, I would of believed that someone like you who voted for Galen would know such a thing already.

Galen got thrown around by Vader was simply because Galen is not the single most powerful character within his world. Sephiroth is the most powerful being in the entire FF VII Universe, he even surpasses a Weapon that was created from the entire lifestream itself, and even surpasses the CV who defeated that very weapon.

The popping of the brain seriously needs to end, because it would take an entity of far greater telekinesis over Sephiroth in order for it to do so without him being aware of an attack. You still have not become aware that telekinesis with the "brain pop" would only work if the opponent is weak minded. Again, you still cannot seem to comprehend that Jedi Force powers requires thinking...meaning using your brain, to bend, mold or do things to your will.

It's just atrocious now that you keep mentioning "popping the brain" when in fact, the only way to do this would be to attack the receiver with some form of a mental attack, because Telekinesis requires using your mind, therefore, this would absolutely not come unnoticed to Sephiroth. Not to mention Sephiroth has proven that he has telekinesis, and that he is insanely powerful with the use of just his mind. This is why your logic doesn't make any sense, because you say telepathy and telekinesis are two different things, which is true...however you simply deny that they require the mind in order to achieve it's goal.

Does that make sense to anyone here? It surely doesn't to me.

Also, in VII, Sephiroth was manipulating ALL of the clones, you either forgot or you need to play VII thoroughly, ALL of the clones were guided by Sephiroth to reach the Northern Crater and meet for the REUNION. Even Cloud was manipulated to do so just like the clones although he didn't "know it" himself, he was basically doing Sephiroth's will.

The fact's are simple, Sephiroth is utilizing his WILL on a global scale, on multiple entities. During VII, Sephiroth achieved everything through his thoughts alone, so the conclusion is simple...Sephiroth's mind is powerful.

Absolutely in no way can Galen just "force into Sephiroth's brain" without Sephiroth not knowing. This is just a bias statement on your part for Galen, and the hate for Sephiroth's character has clearly clouded your open mindedness to this debate.

We have proven that Sephiroth's mind is powerful, however again, you seem to think that telekinesis doesn't involve having a powerful mind, or more importantly that a powerful mind doesn't equate to being able to resist or even counter another telekinesis attack (Sephiroth has shown he has this feat), when in fact telekinesis power itself derives from using the mind.

Until you get your bias away from Galen, then you will never comprehend this, and this will likely continue for 15+ more pages due to ignorance.

[B]Your quote - "Let me put it this way.

Fvck that gay ass bullshit, I will curse all I muthafvckin want and if God has a problem he can go fvck himself and such off Jesus' dick."

Obviously you were directing this at me as a mocking form, or another term a.k.a. bashing, all I ask is keep it clean and about the debate, not to direct it personally to the one debating you. [/B]

1. Sir, I would prefer you not take such a condescending tone with me as you have been throughout the debate, when in fact I am clearly much more adept in this(debating) than you are. 🙂

2. A powerful mind does not automatically equal Godlike telekinesis. Superman has a powerful mind, he does not have telekinesis. Now, Sephiroth does have telekinesis, but until he shows a feat that is even half on par with Galen Marek's TK feats, why should we assume his is anywhere near comparable?

3. You are assuming they are equals. The Junon cannon and the Shinra building(just a building) have not shown the durability of a blast door, why assume it has it? Prove up or shut up.

4. Lightsaber's "blades" are just incredibly condensed heat, heat which>The sun I believe in fact.

5. Only the Masamune has only cut through metals that were far inferior by durability feats. I do not have to prove they are not as durable as blast doors, you have to prove they are.

6. Point? The FFVII verse is nowhere near as powerful as the Star Wars verse is. The top dog in Star Wars with telekinesis can manipulate black holes, Darth Vader, whom Galen Marek defeated, can use Force Choke from light-years away.

7. Only Galen Marek by feats does have far greater telekinesis than Sephiroth. Try again. Yes, he needs to use his mind, to pop his brain, which would not take a long time, it would be instant, and Sephiroth would not be able to defend against it. What about this is hard to understand?

8. Never did, I would like you to not use Strawmen arguments against me sir. However, Sephiroth has not shown a fifth of Galen's TK feats, and Sephiroth, would NOT be able to react to Galen's TK in time.

9. Which means what? That Sephiroth will manipulate weak ass clones to the battle? He was not controlling each clone, he was calling for them.

10. He only directly controlled one Sephiroth clone, and it was actually Jenova.

11. I don't hate Sephiroth, quite the contrary in fact, but he is horrendously overrated, and yes, by those magical space pixies called feats, Galen can.

12. Yeah, but the mind will not stop him from having his head caved in. Sephiroth has never countered telekinesis, let alone TK on Galen's level.

13. Nah.

14. That was not bashing you.

im gana post this agai cuz it was on the last page
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Sephiroth#Strength

im not saying this proves that he is stronger mentaly than galen, just some of you think that sephiroth cant do some of the stuff he can

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
2. A powerful mind does not automatically equal Godlike telekinesis. Superman has a powerful mind, he does not have telekinesis. Now, Sephiroth does have telekinesis, but until he shows a feat that is even half on par with Galen Marek's TK feats, why should we assume his is anywhere near comparable?

Superman has no telekinesis ability so he's completely mute and let's be seriously, we've seen Superman broken down more then once already to show that he can be brought down in this sense. Not to mention, when has Superman ever has his entire body dissolve completely and still not die? When has Superman ever been powerful enough to reshape a new body and return back from the dead twice?

Superman's mind doesn't even touch Sephiroth's, so let's not even talk about that ever again.

You seemingly forget that Sephiroth would have held back the Power of Holy with Telekinesis so that it would dwell within the planet and not surge forward to counter Meteor right? You do know where Holy's power is coming from right? Oh yeah...Aeris summoned this from the Planet Itself, and Holy>>>>A giant ship, considering that Holy is PURE Energy and the most powerful form since it was the only thing left to stop Holy. So tell me what would be more amazing, taking down a ship...or preventing a power of a planet to stop a planet destroying object?

Take your pick and choose carefully.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
3. You are assuming they are equals. The Junon cannon and the Shinra building(just a building) have not shown the durability of a blast door, why assume it has it? Prove up or shut up.

4. Lightsaber's "blades" are just incredibly condensed heat, heat which>The sun I believe in fact.

5. Only the Masamune has only cut through metals that were far inferior by durability feats. I do not have to prove they are not as durable as blast doors, you have to prove they are.

Firstly, we can't prove anything, we don't know how durable their technology is (VII metal Universe). The fact that you assume those "blast door's" are greater in durability is your bias opinion to think that what Sephiroth cuts through is weaker. The fact is simple, I don't know how durable the metal is in the VII Universe, however you don't know how durable those blast doors either. So your basically contradicting yourself here by assuming that one is weaker then the other.

However it's CANON that Lightsabers can't cut through thing's easily when they hit a hard tough object regardless of what type of metal it is, so long as it's a thick object, it takes awhile to cut through. Try to have a LightSaber swing at a thick massive boulder, it would slow down due to the resistance. George Lucas tried to stay true with reality on the form of the LightSaber and it's cutting habits, otherwise the Jedi's could have/would have/should have rip through anything with ease. The form of why a Light Saber will take longer to cut was shown in similar fashion to a Samurai Sword impacting something tough and thick, it will slow down, because there is a resistance against it, thus eventually it will cut or go through, but it will take a longer period of time, or else will take far greater strength from the wielder physically.

Sephiroth is sitting there chopping a Canon in half with utter and complete ease showing absolutely no signs of pure effort, not only that, he didn't even chop it with the blade of the sword, but by simply swinging his weapon and sending out multiple gigantic waves at it.

Can you show me of a LightSaber doing a similar feat in diameter, or anything on that level period? Please, there are NONE of such case. You need to stop thinking that a LightSaber has the same capabilities as Sephiroth's Masamune, because it simply doesn't due to the fact it's restricted with reality boundaries as I stated above (I urge you, go on to True SW fansites that look for canonical and reality boundaries involving SW's and you'll see that what I say about Light Sabers are true). Sephiroth's Masamune completely defies reality, because there is absolutely no way a Metallic sword is capable of such a feat, however within the VII world, these Swords are shown cutting giantic boulders, debris, concrete, and massive metal objects with no effort from the wielders.

Light Saber does not = Heat of the Sun...where are you seriously getting this...lol?

Masamune>>>>Light Saber.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
6. Point? The FFVII verse is nowhere near as powerful as the Star Wars verse is. The top dog in Star Wars with telekinesis can manipulate black holes, Darth Vader, whom Galen Marek defeated, can use Force Choke from light-years away.

Are we talking about the most powerful SW characters in here? Last I remember, this was Galen vs Sephiroth, not Most Powerful SW character vs Most Powerful FF VII character. Get that out of here, and stop derailing the topic at hand.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
7. Only Galen Marek by feats does have far greater telekinesis than Sephiroth. Try again. Yes, he needs to use his mind, to pop his brain, which would not take a long time, it would be instant, and Sephiroth would not be able to defend against it. What about this is hard to understand?

8. Never did, I would like you to not use Strawmen arguments against me sir. However, Sephiroth has not shown a fifth of Galen's TK feats, and Sephiroth, would NOT be able to react to Galen's TK in time.

Read what I stated earlier above about Sephiroth holding back Holy, and come back and reply to me again.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
9. Which means what? That Sephiroth will manipulate weak ass clones to the battle? He was not controlling each clone, he was calling for them.

Manipulating them, manipulating Cloud, holding back Holy, and making sure that the entire LifeStream is going to divert towards himself all at once...yes, you forgot all of these...and oh yes, he was only using his Mind/Will.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
10. He only directly controlled one Sephiroth clone, and it was actually Jenova.

Who controls Jenova? In fact who within the entire existence of FFVII has been able to achieve this feat? Usually Jenova controls and messes with the one who has been injected with it. Sephiroth is the only one who can completely manipulate and bend it to his will. He basically has all of Jenova's abilities at the ready due to this very reason.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
11. I don't hate Sephiroth, quite the contrary in fact, but he is horrendously overrated, and yes, by those magical space pixies called feats, Galen can.

Overrated because he has a huge fanbase I'm presuming? The fact that you claim his telekinesis is weak is every indication your underrating him, again, compare the feats...Sephiroth was doing thing's on a planet threat level in both VII and AC. While Galen...hmmm...right.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
12. Yeah, but the mind will not stop him from having his head caved in. Sephiroth has never countered telekinesis, let alone TK on Galen's level.

13. Nah.

14. That was not bashing you.

A good answer might be that we don't know of someone who is on par with Sephiroth in the VII Universe with the same telekinesis, we do know that Sephiroth has been holding back, so his feats in AC using Telekinesis is not his full potential (something most of you SW fanatics seemingly dismiss), not to mention all of you are dismissing that he held back Holy, and the only way to have done this was to have utilized telekinesis to do so, since Aeris summoned it, the energy of Holy would have rushed forward already to prevent Meteor from striking before hand. In order to stop that force, Sephiroth TKed it to remain within the planet. Remember that while he's doing this...he's doing the 1093482093 other things with his mind as well.

This is why only when Sephiroth died, was Holy able to escape from within the planet and came forth to try and counter Meteor...however it didn't just take Holy deriving from the planet itself, but the entire lifestream as well in order to stop Meteor (Thank Aeris for the Lifestream+Holy effort).

Not only does Sephiroth have ALL of Jenova's abilities, but he also has the near infinite knowledge of the LifeStream itself at his disposal. Galen TKed a giant ship, while Sephiroth TKed the strength of Holy deriving from the planet itself. Not to mention, Sephiroth's great feats are on a planet level...notice how in AC, he's again utilizing the corrupted LifeStream of the world in which he has now manipulated with Geostigma.

If anyone who remotely had an open mind were to read all of these, they would come to the conclusion that Sephiroth would be more then a match for Galen and that a simple TK wouldn't give Galen the free match up because it wouldn't work.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
14. That was not bashing you.

Please man, I was the only one to tell you to keep it clean, however you mocked my statements by literally cussing on purpose as a retaliation to me telling you to keeping it clean. Cussing to provoke someone is against the rules mind you.

Originally posted by JustFrame

You seemingly forget that Sephiroth would have held back the Power of Holy with Telekinesis so that it would dwell within the planet and not surge forward to counter Meteor right? You do know where Holy's power is coming from right? Oh yeah...Aeris summoned this from the Planet Itself, and Holy>>>>A giant ship, considering that Holy is PURE Energy and the most powerful form since it was the only thing left to stop Holy. So tell me what would be more amazing, taking down a ship...or preventing a power of a planet to stop a planet destroying object?

wow i dont know why i didnt even think about this, yeah holding back holy is way more impresive than pulling down a star destroyer, considering that holy was enough to almost stop a meteor that would have killed everyone on earth, if a star destroyer were to hit the earth would it kill everyone there? dont think so

Originally posted by niduin
what are you responding to? if its my last post then you just completely missread what i said, i am saying that you cant prove it im not saying maybe about anything

Thats the thing, nobody has to prove a character cant do something in VS debating, their opposition has to prove that the character can. So the idea that Sephiroth "maybe" has greater power through his potential is a non factor basically in this debate.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Thats the thing, nobody has to prove a character cant do something in VS debating, their opposition has to prove that the character can. So the idea that Sephiroth "maybe" has greater power through his potential is a non factor basically in this debate.
you are completely missing the point of what i was saying, and btw there is not baybe about it about anything we have said he can do

do we even know for sure that he used TK?...we believed that he did only recently..before that everyone here naturally assumed he was using a spell of some kind 😬

Originally posted by MadMel
do we even know for sure that he used TK?...we believed that he did only recently..before that everyone here naturally assumed he was using a spell of some kind 😬
what else would he be using? the game never said anything about a spell he was using to block it, just said he was holding it back,

What exactly is "holy"?

Originally posted by Gumachi
What exactly is "holy"?
a spell that is used to counter meteor... also heals the small planet.

Impressive.

Originally posted by niduin
what else would he be using? the game never said anything about a spell he was using to block it, just said he was holding it back,

tel·e·ki·ne·sis

tel·e·ki·ne·sis [tèlli ki nssiss, tèlli kī nssiss]
n
power to move things: the supposed psychic power to move or deform inanimate objects without the use of physical force

Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

Just like in DMC when Trish throwed the motorcycle at Dante, he used his TK preventing the motorcycle from hitting him[he was holding it back].

last time i checked seph wasnt so mentally stable, because he did, ya know, flip out when he found out about him being a so called "monster", destroyed an entire castle-like building, and attempt to kill many people.

Originally posted by k1Lla441
last time i checked seph wasnt so mentally stable, because he did, ya know, flip out when he found out about him being a so called "monster", destroyed an entire castle-like building, and attempt to kill many people.

don't forget calling a meteor to the planet just because he was a creation

what does mentaly unstable have to do with anything? that doesnt have anything to do with how strong he is

Originally posted by niduin
what does mentaly unstable have to do with anything? that doesnt have anything to do with how strong he is

It just means he's mentally unstable

Originally posted by niduin
what does mentaly unstable have to do with anything? that doesnt have anything to do with how strong he is

just wanted to add in the fact that he may have a "strong mind" in a physical sense, but in actual mind he isnt.