ALI vs Bruce Lee

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
That everything said about Lee is heresay, and there is no way in hell you will believe otherwise. All his feats and accomplishments are nullified to you because he never strapped on a pair of boxing gloves.

There is no reason to believe all those amazing things are anything but myths built around an a gifted actor who's legend has avalanched with the passing of time, as these things tend to do.

Tell me, why do you believe those myths of him being able to kick anyone's ass as fact? Because he kicked a lot of ass on film, or?

Like I said, being completely ripped, doing two-finger push-ups, kicking body-bags and holding 125lbs dumbbells at arm's length is all very impressive, but it doesn't win fights and take precedence over an actual fight record. You know this.

This is a good interview Joe Lewis did back in the day, it's good because he actually knew Bruce Lee and trained with the guy. He goes into boxing, grappling etc, concerning Bruce Lee.

http://www.mikemiles.com/lewis.html

Originally posted by Robtard
There is no reason to believe all those amazing things are anything but myths built around an a gifted actor who's legend has avalanched with the passing of time, as these things tend to do.

Tell me, why do you believe those myths of him being able to kick anyone's ass as fact? Because he kicked a lot of ass on film, or?

Like I said, being completely ripped, doing two-finger push-ups, kicking body-bags and holding 125lbs dumbbells at arm's length is all very impressive, but it doesn't win fights and take precedence over an actual fight record. You know this.

Jeet Kun Do also incorporates boxing skills, and Lee was a former boxing champion, you know.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
A boxing match has rules, there will be no rules in this fight. Ali trained as a boxer who fights by a certain set of rules, he has never faced anyone as fast as Lee.

Jeet Kun Do also incorporates boxing skills, and Lee was a former boxing champion, you know.

Ali is still a champion fighter, just because he normally can't punch below the belt, doesn't mean he doesn't know how to.

Bruce Lee was a boxing champ? Have something to support this?

Silly how you gimp Ali because of "no rules" and the like, yet refuse to see that Lee was an actor first and didn't really fight, so a fight without rules would be worse for him. Ali knocked a 230lbs Foreman (in his prime no less) while wearing gloves, imagine what he would do to a 135lbs Lee with bare knuckles/

Did you read that Joe Lewis interview, dude is regarded as one of the greatest martial artist full-contact competitors of all time, should give you some insight into the real Bruce Lee. Even Chuck Norris couldn't touch him.

Originally posted by Robtard
Ali is still a champion fighter, just because he normally can't punch below the belt, doesn't mean he doesn't know how to.

Bruce Lee was a boxing champ? Have something to support this?

Silly how you gimp Ali because of "no rules" and the like, yet refuse to see that Lee was an actor first and didn't really fight, so a fight without rules would be worse for him. Ali knocked a 230lbs Foreman (in his prime no less) while wearing gloves, imagine what he would do to a 135lbs Lee with bare knuckles/

Did you read that Joe Lewis interview, dude is regarded as one of the greatest martial artist full-contact competitors of all time, should give you some insight into the real Bruce Lee. Even Chuck Norris couldn't touch him.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Well all we ever see Ali do is box above the belt.

Its....all over the internet, google it.

And how long did it take Ali to KO Foreman? And I am not gimping Ali.

Oh so his word is law? The interview is fact, but the things said about Lee are heresay?

And what do we see Lee doing fight-wise? Nothing.

Tried, didn't find anything about Bruce Lee being a "boxing champion." Care to post it?

Ali in round 8. Foreman, like Ali, was a world class boxer who was known for his devastating blows and his concrete-like head. This just speaks well for Ali.

Well, Lewis was a martial arts champion, is regarded as one of best and he both knew and trained with Bruce Lee. While it may not be law, it certainly has leagues over all these Bruce Lee myths you desperately cling to. Did you read the interview? It's good and if you're a fan of fighting sports, there's many good insight in it.

In regards to Lee being able to kick anyone's ass, yes, they are all here-say. You're hilarious, I show you the opionion of both an expert and a guy who actually knew Bruce Lee and you blow it off, but you'll accept bloated-up fantasies written by movie-fans as fact.

Originally posted by Robtard
And what do we see Lee doing? Nothing.

Tried, didn't find anything about Bruce Lee being a "boxing champion." Care to post it?

http://mobile.answers.com/topic/bruce-lee?curtab=2750_1

At age 12, Lee entered La Salle College and later he attended St. Francis Xavier's College. In 1959, at the age of 18, Lee got into a fight and badly beat his opponent, getting into trouble with the police.[12] His father became concerned about young Bruce's safety, and as a result, he and his wife decided to send Bruce to the United States to live with an old friend of his father's. Lee left with $100 in his pocket and the titles of 1958 Boxing Champion and the Crown Colony Cha Cha Champion of Hong Kong.[3] He relocated to the United States through his citizenship to earn an education. After living in San Francisco, he moved to Seattle to work for Ruby Chow, another friend of his father's. In 1959, Lee completed his high school education in Seattle and received his diploma from Edison Technical School. He enrolled at the University of Washington and studied philosophy, drama, and psychology, among other subjects.[13][14][15] It was at the University of Washington that he met his future wife Linda Emery, whom he would marry in 1964.

Ali in round 8. Foreman, like Ali, was a world class boxer who was known for his devastating blows and his concrete like head. This just speaks well for Ali.

Well, Lewis was a martial arts champion, is regarded as one of best and he both knew and trained with Bruce Lee. While it may not be law, it certainly has leagues over all these Bruce Lee myths you desperately cling to. Did you read the interview? It's good and if you're a fan of fighting sports, there's many good insight in it.

In regards to Lee being able to kick anyones ass, yes, they are all here-say. You're hilarious, I show you the opionion of both an expert and a guy who actually knew Bruce Lee and you blow it off, but you'll accept bloated-up fantasies written by fans as fact.

And this:

http://mobile.answers.com/topic/bruce-lee?curtab=2750_1#1964_Long_Beach_International_Karate_Championships

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So more "Lee never fought professionally?" Thats pretty dense, dude. Look below for proof that Lee has a documented fighting record.

http://mobile.answers.com/topic/bruce-lee?curtab=2750_1

At age 12, Lee entered La Salle College and later he attended St. Francis Xavier's College. In 1959, at the age of 18, Lee got into a fight and badly beat his opponent, getting into trouble with the police.[12] His father became concerned about young Bruce's safety, and as a result, he and his wife decided to send Bruce to the United States to live with an old friend of his father's. Lee left with $100 in his pocket and the titles of 1958 Boxing Champion and the Crown Colony Cha Cha Champion of Hong Kong.[3] He relocated to the United States through his citizenship to earn an education. After living in San Francisco, he moved to Seattle to work for Ruby Chow, another friend of his father's. In 1959, Lee completed his high school education in Seattle and received his diploma from Edison Technical School. He enrolled at the University of Washington and studied philosophy, drama, and psychology, among other subjects.[13][14][15] It was at the University of Washington that he met his future wife Linda Emery, whom he would marry in 1964.

So Ali wore him down, then KO'd him.

After reading the interview, Lewis is an arrogant prick.

Hey, the people who say the things about Bruce knew him, trained with him, just like Lewis. Why is that whatever Lewis said is valid, but what they say is not?

Dude, you said "Bruce Lee was a boxing champion", then you post a record which has: 2 Exhibitions, 4 Amateur boxing bouts, 2 street fights, 1 disputed and 1 Martial Arts fight, three of which are "unknowns". Are you dense?

Ali's fight record: 56 Wins (37 knockouts, 19 decisions), 5 Losses (4 decisions, 1 retirement), 0 Draws

Okay, does that KO not count as a KO?

Why is he arrogant? He certainly has the accolades to back up what he's saying.

Those people speak well of Bruce Lee in regards of his physical conditioning, his speed and his teaching ability, as does Joe Lewis. But as I said before, kicking bags and doing two-finger push-ups doesn't win you a fight; especially against one of the greatest fighters.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And this:

http://mobile.answers.com/topic/bruce-lee?curtab=2750_1#1964_Long_Beach_International_Karate_Championships

And?

Originally posted by Robtard
Dude, you said "Bruce Lee was a boxing champion", then you post a record which has: 2 Exhibitions, 4 Amateur boxing bouts, 2 street fights, 1 disputed and 1 Martial Arts fight. Are you dense?

Okay, does that KO not count as a KO?

Why is he arrogant? He certainly has the accolades to back up what he's saying.

Those people speak well of Bruce Lee in regards of his physical conditioning, his speed and his teaching ability, as does Joe Lewis. But as I said before, kicking bags and doing two-finger push-ups doesn't win you a fight.

And?

Originally posted by dadudemon
This is movie versus, really. So you can argue that all day...but you've already done that. We've argued about this tirelessly in that real world thread. Since this is to the death, Lee would win in the real world, too. Does Ali have training on how to kill a person? Does Ali have any MMA training anywhere on level with Bruce?

Since this is movies, Ali gets raped with extreme vengence. When has Ali ever kicked a person off the groun, several feet? (Ali has done that many times in real life, not just movies.)

Boxers these days are signifantly better than Ali. Let's put a tope heavyweight MMA fighter up against a top Boxer. Better yet, let's put a top free style martial artist (he can use any style he likes...) against a top MMA fighter. Compare those. Who would win out of that?

Since I'm fairly sure an MMA fighter is best suited to win any street fight against anyone, that doesn't work too well. However, a free style martial artist may not fair as well against a top notch boxer. Of course, I could be wrong and be really retarded and a Martial Artist would make short work of a boxer....but I find that unlikely.

Listen.

I love lee I lot.
He brought Martial Arts to the limelight in America and for that we should be forever greatful.
But while Lee was making movies, guys like Rolls Gracie were proving the worth of Gracie Ju-Jitsu in Brazil.
Just because a guy studies more than one Martial Art,does not mean he is a mixed martial artist.
Lee is a pioneer and a legend, but I think calling him a "Mixed Martial Artist" is more of an honorary title and not something we should take literaly.

What makes an MMA fighter more dominant than most, is partialy because they train in all phases of combat day in and day out.
Then they apply those skills in the ring.
Muhammed Ali was the HW champion.
Lee, for as great as a Martial Artist as he was, was in no way shape or form a dominant proven champion.

Gene Lebell has made mention that if Lee was a bigger guy he would have been knocked out by a kick of his.
Chuck Norris also commented that when devolping Jeet Kune Do, Lee did not want to implement head kicks into the philosophy, because he did not belieive a head kick could be effectivly used in street fight.

Lee was not a proven full contanct fighter.
Some people make it out as if he was the first UFC champion.
Ali was a proven boxer, who I believe's experince in the boxing ring would prove the better.

But for all that, if were talking about taking Lee from the movies I think you would have to go with him.

Real Life= ALi
Movies= Bruce.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
YEESH.....The fight record I showed are the ones that are DOCUMENTED. And you put alot of faith in what Lewis says, what;s wrong with me putting alot of faith in what is said about Bruce? If anything, what is said about Bruce is far more relevant because more than one person said it.

OK, so would Lee and Ali go 8 rounds? Doubtful.

Are you telling me that the guy doesnt sound like an arrogant self righteous prick? Wait, forget I asked that.

They also speak of how Bruce was regularly challenged on the set and how he never lost.

Shit, wrong link, lemmee find it again.

Flip-side to that, Lee has hundreds of undocumented fights and lost the majority of them, for all we know. See what I mean about "hearsay."

No, Ali would clean his clock in the first round, is the most probable outcome. 56 wins in his career.

Again, how is he arrogant? He speaks relatively well of Bruce Lee and he has the record to back-up what he's saying.

More hearsay. Also of note, who were these (supposed) challengers, were they anyone of worth, were they champions etc. etc. etc.? Because if Lee spent his time kicking local street toughs, that doesn't make him champion material. I'm sure that Ali in his prime could have taken out many a wannabe street tough or amateur boxer/fighter.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
YEESH.....The fight record I showed are the ones that are DOCUMENTED. And you put alot of faith in what Lewis says, what;s wrong with me putting alot of faith in what is said about Bruce? If anything, what is said about Bruce is far more relevant because more than one person said it.

OK, so would Lee and Ali go 8 rounds? Doubtful.

Are you telling me that the guy doesnt sound like an arrogant self righteous prick? Wait, forget I asked that.

They also speak of how Bruce was regularly challenged on the set and how he never lost.

Shit, wrong link, lemmee find it again.

I wouldn't say it's more revelant because more than one person said it.
Take a look at Rickson Gracie. Possibly the best pure BJJ artist in the world. He's got a documented MMA record of 11-0 with one street fight win to his record.
Yet they claim he's 400-0. The amazing thing is some people say this is true. More than one person. And most of them are just blindly hugging the guys nuts.
Even with a documented record of 11-0 I don't believe Rickson is 400 and 0 (He did lose to Ron Tripp. Not much of a loss but oh well).

And lets take this into perspective.
Lets did say if a guy never lost, how much does that say for the competition he is taking on?
Being undefeated is not always a good thing.

And lets not forget, for all the people who worship Bruce, their are just as many that have claimed Gene Lebell humbled Bruce many times on the mat with his grappling skills.

Funny how you didn't see any type of ground work at all in Lee's fights till after he met Lebell. 😉

Originally posted by Robtard
Flip-side to that, Lee has hundreds of undocumented fights and lost the majority of them, for all we know. See what I mean about "hearsay."

No, Ali would clean his clock in the first round, is the most probably outcome. 56 wins in his career.

Again, how is he arrogant? He speaks relatively well of Bruce Lee and he has the record to back-up what he's saying.

More hearsay. Also of note, who were these (supposed) challengers, were they anyone of worth, were they champions etc. etc. etc.? Because if Lee spent his time kicking local street toughs, that doesn't make him champion material. I'm sure that Ali in his prime could have taken out many a wannabe street tough or amateur boxer/fighter.

Originally posted by Robtard
Flip-side to that, Lee has hundreds of undocumented fights and lost the majority of them, for all we know. See what I mean about "hearsay."

No, Ali would clean his clock in the first round, is the most probable outcome. 56 wins in his career.

Again, how is he arrogant? He speaks relatively well of Bruce Lee and he has the record to back-up what he's saying.

More hearsay. Also of note, who were these (supposed) challengers, were they anyone of worth, were they champions etc. etc. etc.? Because if Lee spent his time kicking local street toughs, that doesn't make him champion material. I'm sure that Ali in his prime could have taken out many a wannabe street tough or amateur boxer/fighter.

I got to agree.

Look how many people bought into the hype of Kimbo Slice.
Would I call Kimbo a bad fighter?
Not really. I mean put him on the street and not many people are going to mess with him.
Their's a difference between beating up on steroid freaks behind a 7-11 and fighting pro-competition.
I think the same applies with Lee.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Speculate much? I am going with what is seen and talked about by living beings, not fairy tales.

Unless Lee lands one of those kicks that can shatter a one inch thick piece of dangling wood.

He speaks in a respective fashion while glorifying himself. "Bruce Lee learned alot from me"....gimmee a break.

They were accomplished martial artists, they performed martial arts on camera. Do the math. If Jet Li is filming a movie, he is gonna choose accomplished martial artist to fight instead of you and I.

Hearsay is hearsay.

Dangling pieces of wood don't hit back, to paraphrase Lee himself.

That's right, because Bruce Lee was the inventor of all that is Martial Arts and no one taught him anything, how silly of me.

Yeah, they, like Lee, were actors first. Do you think Jackie Chan and Jet Lee (who actually has a record) are super badass fighters as well; who can take anyone out? It's also hearsay that Lee was kicking all their asses on a daily basis. Of note, all those extras on Enter the Dragon (e.g.) were not Martial Arts masters; just happened to be Asian.

Originally posted by mr.smiley
I got to agree.

Look how many people bought into the hype of Kimbo Slice.
Would I call Kimbo a bad fighter?
Not really. I mean put him on the street and not many people are going to mess with him.
Their's a difference between beating up on steroid freaks behind a 7-11 and fighting pro-competition.
I think the same applies with Lee.

Exactly, when fighting amateurs and street toughs, he's a force to be reckoned with. Put him against someone who has extensive training, knows how to strike and take a hit, he gets beaten and badly.

But hey, the legends are fun.

Originally posted by Robtard
Hearsay is hearsay.

Dangling pieces of wood don't hit back, to paraphrase Lee himself.

That's right, because Bruce Lee was the inventor of all that is Martial Arts and no one taught him anything, how silly of me.

Yeah, they, like Lee, were actors first. Do you think Jackie Chan and Jet Lee are super badass fighters as well; who can take anyone out? It's also hearsay that Lee was kicking all their asses on a daily basis. Of note, all those extras on Enter the Dragon were not Martial Arts masters; just happened to be Asian.

Jackie Chan is overrated, and yes, Jet Li can probably whip most guys asses.

Gonna bow out here, Rob. You and I arent gonna see eye to eye on the heresay issue, and it will lead to page after page after page of bullshit.

Jet Li could beat most guys on the street, maybe. Put him against a kick boxer, boxer, jui jitsu or MMA guy of some worth, he'd get stomped.

Originally posted by Robtard
Jet Li could beat most guys on the street, maybe. Put him against a kick boxer, boxer, jui jitsu or MMA guy of some worth, he'd get stomped.

Actually Jet Li is a proven martial arts multiple national champion before his career in films.

Now to describe him as just some street level fighter is a little unfair to say the least.