Originally posted by Placidity
Actually Jet Li is a proven martial arts multiple national champion before his career in films.Now to describe him as just some street level fighter is a little unfair to say the least.
From what I hear of Wushu, it's a lot of forms, posing and such, stuff that doesn't have a place in an actual fight.
I didn't say he was just some street leveler, fair enough though.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Elbows are NOT boxing.
Ever see Tyson fight...?
Dont be silly. Lots of boxers use them. (Not back-elbow strikes, of course...)
I know they are illegal, but some boxers like to do it on the blind side of the ref, on the sly, and others connect with elbows by way of accidental follow through from the hook.
Originally posted by dadudemonI have no idea what you're talking about here. Expand on this.
OK. No guard or system of MA that Lee was studying had an answer to stick and move tactics employing the jab and quick combinations.
(The footwork involved unsures the jabber that he aint gonna be around for the counterstrike from the jab-ee, and moving around the opponent stops them from getting rooted from kicks or big strikes, themselves as they have to constantly be readjusting their own angle to face them..)
Lee was a big fan of Ali's and these factors are why he wrote that scene where John Saxon is popping and moving with the Jab, confounding his opponent. And also based Jim Brown's demeanour on Ali also.
Displays like the one Robtard posted, the Ali Vs Cleveland Wiliiams fight are what made hima fan of Alis.
Sorry its hard to elborate any further than that.
Also, if Bruce Lee was a champion Boxer, how come no one heard of that...? Net Myth.
That Joe Lewis interview was definitely more concrete that netmyth or "expert testimony"/speculation from fighters who never fought him.
Normally I'd say also that just knowing him isnt enough, like if Bruces Mom come in here and said "My boy coulda beat anybody" I'd still not believe that without some evidence.
But the Lewis fella seemed to know what he was talking about and had a big provable record to match it. And he knew Lee well.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Ever see Tyson fight...?Dont be silly. Lots of boxers use them. (Not back-elbow strikes, of course...)
I know they are illegal, but some boxers like to do it on the blind side of the ref, on the sly, and others connect with elbows by way of accidental follow through from the hook.
I've seen all Tyson fights...I didn't watch some of his early ones live, but I've seen them all.
Also, I used to work for DirecTV and we always watched all the Tyson fights, for free! heh heh
Elbows are a very rare occurance. Very rare.
Throwing an elbow in the Ali vs. Lee fight assumes that the fighters closed the distance. If I were Ali, I'd use my long reach to my advantage and keep that slippery asian dude at a distance.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
OK. No guard or system of MA that Lee was studying had an answer to stick and move tactics employing the jab and quick combinations.
Hmm. I disagree on a fundemental level. I would say that in and out techniques was very much a part of Lee's fighting personlity. He liked to end things very very quickly. Submission or KO ASAP was his way. He wasn't in it for points.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
(The footwork involved unsures the jabber that he aint gonna be around for the counterstrike from the jab-ee, and moving around the opponent stops them from getting rooted from kicks or big strikes, themselves as they have to constantly be readjusting their own angle to face them..)
This is where Lee is deadly. Not only does he defend against strikes, he uses the strikes as part of his offensive movement. It's rather genius.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Lee was a big fan of Ali's and these factors are why he wrote that scene where John Saxon is popping and moving with the Jab, confounding his opponent. And also based Jim Brown'
s demeanour on Ali also.
Displays like the one Robtard posted, the Ali Vs Cleveland Wiliiams fight are what made hima fan of Alis.Sorry its hard to elborate any further than that.
No. That's great. I like talking about this. I read every post in this thread. I just can't be arsed to reply to everyone who addresses me.
Now, I still would like to get a REAL opinion on this. Not mine...a half assed martial artist of many different styles, or anyone elses opinions. You did boxing, though, right? I've never fought in any tournies.
I was told that I may have difficulty getting someone on the horn about this...from the UFC.
Originally posted by dadudemon
I was told that I may have difficulty getting someone on the horn about this...from the UFC.
See the article/interview I posted on Joe Lewis. As a world martial arts champion times over and rated as one of the best martial artist in the world, I believe his opinion could be in the "expert" range.
Yeah Robtard but hes the wrong kind of expert.... 🙄
(IE one who says real things that they will never acknowledge or wanna hear about Lee 😛 )
Dude, regardless, I and many others still throw 'em when doing any bag work and in a no rules situation, if the opportunity presented itself I'd use them. (Especially as a guitarist wanting to preserve whats left of his hands lolz)
They are devastating and using them correctly, its like using a bat, and your elbows will take way more than your knuckles will.
True what you say about range though, Lee would have to be close.
It'd be a great finishing move for Ali after the jabs and a quick combo.
What do you base your Lee assessments on...?
The footwork we are taking about circles round the opponent as well as in and out.
Originally posted by Robtard
This is a good interview Joe Lewis did back in the day, it's good because he actually knew Bruce Lee and trained with the guy. He goes into boxing, grappling etc, concerning Bruce Lee.
That's a good interview. I enjoyed it.
Now, he says Bruce never sparred with any of the greats from that day, but I strongly disagree. He says some good things about Bruce, too. I think that's rather big of him considering their past. I used to think of this guy as a whiner with talent. Not so much now.
Here's direct contradiction to Joe Lewis's sparring statement.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?pageId=39508
However, that doesn't take away from what I would call an "expert opinion." Joe Lewis would know a million times more about Lee's abilities than say, you and I. When Joe Says that he was getting into grappling towards the end, he was. When Joe says he was still had some residual Wing Chun "personality", he does. When he said that he was the fastest man that ever stood in front of him, he probably was. The only thing I can directly contradict of his is his sparring comment. Clearly, Bruce and Norris sparred on many occasions.
Originally posted by Robtard
So he was wrong about Lee sparring with Chuck Norris. Okay.
Originally posted by Robtard
BTW, if Chuck and Lee had fought offscreen, Chuck would have kicked his ass.
Chuck never said that or even implied it. He had great respect for Lee and his abilities.
However, Chuck Norris is very...nice?
I've got a crapload of homework to do this weekend, but I might be able to make a few calls and get someone on the line. I don't think it's that far out to get someone on the line.
Originally posted by Blinky
Anybody notice how this thread degenerated to just other "Lee versus Ali" thread, despite being in the "movies VS" forum? Good times.
But...I like it that way better.
I think that Robtard is really onto something. There are a lot of Lee fanboys that are fanboys from the legend and the movies rather than facts. I think this is a really good place to discuss that. It hasn't gotten heated either, so I think the boards are working exactly the way they are supposed to.
Originally posted by Blinky
Anybody notice how this thread degenerated to just other "Lee versus Ali" thread, despite being in the "movies VS" forum? Good times.
It's obvious movie Bruce Lee is nigh-invincible, so there's nothing much to discuss with him taking on movie Ali.
He'd do that pounce back-and-forth maneuver, make some low gutteral Asiany-sounds, do that quick clear-the-nostrils-of-snot manuever and then take off (movie) Ali's head with a kick. /the end