Punisher vs Wolverine, Beast and Cyclops
Punisher gets 3 weeks prep. Can use Microchip (assume he didnt die and for some strange reason are still friends) and other no-name allies for help, Punisher does not have current hi-tech stash but his old stash from back in the day with Micro.
After the 3 weeks the Xmen start to hunt him down and cannot get any outside help apart from themselves.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
This is pretty vague. No-name allies?
Thats anybody except for somebody like Stu Clark ie he knows people who can build him weapons and supply forgeries etc.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
How many of them can he use, and do any of them have powers?
They are just helping him in prep and cant help him fight.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Where is this taking place? Define prep-- does Castle know who is coming for him and when?
I edited it several times so you might not have seen what I posted. It could take place anywhere. Pun knows whos coming for him and has 3 weeks to prepare for them. The fight could take place anywhere because they are hunting him down, obvoulsy though Pun will try to lure thme into a trap .
I still gotta go with the X-Men.
One can level an area the size of a football field.
One regularly gets shot full of holes and keeps moving forward.
One is now at or above Luke Cage's level of strength.
The latter two have superhuman reflexes and agility.
There's a chance Castle may kill one of them in the process, but he's not taking them all down.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
I still gotta go with the X-Men.One can level an area the size of a football field.
Thats true but he doesnt usually use that much firepower, only in desperate situations and I dont see Pun fighting them in a place like an open field where Cyke can let off.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
One regularly gets shot full of holes and keeps moving forward.
Im not sure if hes going to do that againt armour piercing shells and missles.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
One is now at or above Luke Cage's level of strength
The latter two have superhuman reflexes and agility.
You know I havent actually seen any proof hes class 25 and its not in his offical bio. Hes shot people with superhuman reflexes before...shouldnt be a problem with prep.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
There's a chance Castle may kill one of them in the process, but he's not taking them all down.
Dont see why not, Cap is arguably a better tactian than Cyclops and I dont think the prep that Cap used was as extensive as in this thread. Hes survived a death trap from Doom and he was actually taken by suprise.
Hes also taken down......well you guessed it Wolverine, Spiderman and DD. Wolverine sounded like an idiot but Pun being able to get him with a missle is not PIS especially when he can shoot Cap...twice.
Spidermans senses have been shown to work one second before a bomb is triggered...if Spiderman thinks something is a bomb he wont wonder why his SS isnt working..heres an example.
http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/2306/feat7ssml0.jpg
The beam was rotten and was potentially dangerous but his SS only warned him a second before it was about to break. This principle could be applied to a bomb. In other word his sense wont warn him if a bomb is dormant but will warn him 1 second before its about to explode.
Hes Spider sense has also not worked when in the presence of guns until it was pointed at him and fired. Therefore if he thinks something is a bomb Spiderman knows that his SS wont neccesarily work unless the bomb is triggered.
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneSpiderman ignored his spider sense until it was too late, therefore it was probably going off when he attached himself to it, but it became stronger when it was actually breaking, which goes in line with the way his spider sense works.
Spidermans senses have been shown to work one second before a bomb is triggered...if Spiderman thinks something is a bomb he wont wonder why his SS isnt working..heres an example.http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/2306/feat7ssml0.jpg
The beam was rotten and was potentially dangerous but his SS only warned him a second before it was about to break. This principle could be applied to a bomb. In other word his sense wont warn him if a bomb is dormant but will warn him 1 second before its about to explode.
Hes Spider sense has also not worked when in the presence of guns until it was pointed at him and fired. Therefore if he thinks something is a bomb Spiderman knows that his SS wont neccesarily work unless the bomb is triggered.
More times than not, his spider sense will go off with the mere presence of a bomb, even if it isn't active.
Originally posted by Mindset
Spiderman ignored his spider sense until it was too late, therefore it was probably going off when he attached himself to it, but it became stronger when it was actually breaking, which goes in line with the way his spider sense works.
Sorry mate the scans specifically show him hanging on it without his SS going off and then going off at the last second, so thats just an assumption.
Originally posted by Mindset
More times than not, his spider sense will go off with the mere presence of a bomb, even if it isn't active.
Ive seen examples to the contrary.
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneSorry mate, but he explicitly says he ignored his spider sense, which is why he was on a rotten beam.
Sorry mate the scans specifically show him hanging on it without his SS going off and then going off at the last second, so thats just an assumption.Ive seen examples to the contrary.
Really? Post those examples.
Sorry mate, but he explicitly says he ignored his spider sense, which is why he was on a rotten beam. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah you're right my bad.
Originally posted by Mindset
Really? Post those examples.
Heres one, his sense doesnt warn him until MJ puts the key into the door and triggers the bomd.
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/3140/feat10sspd4.jpg
Heres an example of people pointing guns at him his SS doesnt go off until they are about to fire.
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/7823/feat41ss1bl0.jpg
Heres another one, where his SS warns him only just before hes about to break the glass.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Thats true but he doesnt usually use that much firepower, only in desperate situations and I dont see Pun fighting them in a place like an open field where Cyke can let off.Im not sure if hes going to do that againt armour piercing shells and missles.
Just as Cyclops wouldn't go all out, Castle more than likely wouldn't either.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
You know I havent actually seen any proof hes class 25 and its not in his offical bio. Hes shot people with superhuman reflexes before...shouldnt be a problem with prep.
I've heard it stated by people here before, and it seemed like most people agreed. Can't find any examples myself though.
That's fascinating, but now there's two superhumanly agile X-Men (one of whom can handle being shot repeatedly), and a third X-Man who can shoot things almost as fast as he can look at them.
Castle is screwed.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Dont see why not, Cap is arguably a better tactian than Cyclops and I dont think the prep that Cap used was as extensive as in this thread. Hes survived a death trap from Doom and he was actually taken by suprise.Hes also taken down......well you guessed it Wolverine, Spiderman and DD. Wolverine sounded like an idiot but Pun being able to get him with a missle is not PIS especially when he can shoot Cap...twice.
You already know what I and a number of people on this forum think of "Confederacy of Dunces". Ennis did all he could to make Punisher look good, while ignoring everything that makes Wolverine, Spider-Man, and Daredevil competent heroes. It was a fun story, but it was chock full of bullshit.
Scan of the Captain America shooting? Was he sniped?
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Spidermans senses have been shown to work one second before a bomb is triggered...if Spiderman thinks something is a bomb he wont wonder why his SS isnt working..heres an example.http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/2306/feat7ssml0.jpg
The beam was rotten and was potentially dangerous but his SS only warned him a second before it was about to break. This principle could be applied to a bomb. In other word his sense wont warn him if a bomb is dormant but will warn him 1 second before its about to explode.
In the last panel, Spider-Man states that he shouldn't have ignored his Spider-Sense. That means it was going off with ample time for him to react, but he assumed nothing was wrong until the joist actually broke.
So, no-- his Spider-Sense was working fine, but CIS took over.
Originally posted by Mindset
Sorry mate, but he explicitly says he ignored his spider sense, which is why he was on a rotten beam.
Yeah you're right my bad.
Heres one, his sense doesnt warn him until MJ puts the key into the door and triggers the bomd.
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/3140/feat10sspd4.jpg
Heres an example of people pointing guns at him his SS doesnt go off until they are about to fire.
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/7823/feat41ss1bl0.jpg
Heres another one, where his SS warns him only just before hes about to break the glass.
http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/7302/feat28ssdn4.jpg [/B][/QUOTE]
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yeah you're right my bad.Heres one, his sense doesnt warn him until MJ puts the key into the door and triggers the bomd.
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/3140/feat10sspd4.jpg
Heres an example of people pointing guns at him his SS doesnt go off until they are about to fire.
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/7823/feat41ss1bl0.jpg
Heres another one, where his SS warns him only just before hes about to break the glass.
Scan with the guns, perhaps just artistic expression maybe? His ss should have gone off at the very latest when the guns were pointed at him, it just wasn't drawn like that. Btw, every time his ss goes off it isn't displayed with squiggly lines.
His ss activated before she even turned the key, he just didn't stop her in time.--anyway that would go along with the more times than not. That is in the minority. I assume you in his respect thread on herochat, look through it.
The last scan I don't see how that would help your case. When would his ss go off? It went off when he got near the glass, why would it go off before then, there was no danger?
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Just as Cyclops wouldn't go all out, Castle more than likely wouldn't either.
True but Pun has the advantage of prep.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
I've heard it stated by people here before, and it seemed like most people agreed. Can't find any examples myself though.
Yeah I know but theres zero proof to back it up. His offical bio on marvel.com does not state he has class 25 ton strength.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
That's fascinating, but now there's two superhumanly agile X-Men (one of whom can handle being shot repeatedly), and a third X-Man who can shoot things almost as fast as he can look at them.Castle is screwed.
Help me out here. I already stated that hes shot Cap with very little prep, propping yourself up on roof does require 3 weeks prep, so if he has more prep he can shot two.
Wolverine is just picking himself up from armour piercing machine gun bullets and missles.
Just because Cyke is a fast shot does not neccesarily give him the win. Punisher obvoulsy knows this and we know from his track record he can find away around it via traps and tactics
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
You already know what I and a number of people on this forum think of "Confederacy of Dunces". Ennis did all he could to make Punisher look good, while ignoring everything that makes Wolverine, Spider-Man, and Daredevil competent heroes. It was a fun story, but it was chock full of bullshit
Yeah and youve done nothing to prove this.
Pun has shot Cap but he cant shot Wolverine?
Pun has beaten DD before so he cant beat DD?
Im providing scans to porve my case with Spiderman.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Scan of the Captain America shooting? Was he sniped?
Read Punisher and Captain America blood and glory issue 1...yeah he was sniped and shot twice.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
In the last panel, Spider-Man states that he shouldn't have ignored his Spider-Sense. That means it was going off with ample time for him to react, but he assumed nothing was wrong until the joist actually broke.So, no-- his Spider-Sense was working fine, but CIS took over.
Oh well anyway hers 3 others.
Heres one, his sense doesnt warn him until MJ puts the key into the door and triggers the bomd.
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/3140/feat10sspd4.jpg
Heres an example of people pointing guns at him his SS doesnt go off until they are about to fire.
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/...eat41ss1bl0.jpg
Heres another one, where his SS warns him only just before hes about to break the glass.
Originally posted by Mindset
Scan with the guns, perhaps just artistic expression maybe? His ss should have gone off at the very latest when the guns were pointed at him, it just wasn't drawn like that. Btw, every time his ss goes off it isn't displayed with squiggly lines.His ss activated before she even turned the key, he just didn't stop her in time.--anyway that would go along with the more times than not. That is in the minority. I assume you in his respect thread on herochat, look through it.
👆
Originally posted by Mindset
The last scan I don't see how that would help your case. When would his ss go off? It went off when he got near the glass, why would it go off before then, there was no danger?
Stationary glass has surpassed heart-disease, car accidents, and cancer as the #1 cause of death in America.
Originally posted by Mindset
Scan with the guns, perhaps just artistic expression maybe? His ss should have gone off at the very latest when the guns were pointed at him, it just wasn't drawn like that. Btw, every time his ss goes off it isn't displayed with squiggly lines.
Nah sorry I think im right in this instance. Heres what the scans say.
"They are pointing guns at me"...nothing happens,..we then see them shot at spiderman he then says "Thats when my head explodes." ie his head didnt explode when they pointed the guns at him.
Originally posted by Mindset
His ss activated before she even turned the key, he just didn't stop her in time.
Actually thats not clear cut, you see her about to put the key in the hole and then we cut to Spiderman by that time the key could have been in the hole.
At any rate there were near the door and his SS did nothing.
Originally posted by Mindset
--anyway that would go along with the more times than not. That is in the minority. I assume you in his respect thread on herochat, look through it.
Spidermans SS varies some showings contradict some dont, there are also many showings that are ambigous as well ie we cant tell specifically what time his SS went off.
Hell sometimes his SS warns him of lying and im pretty sure there are loads of examples when it doesnt.
Originally posted by Mindset
The last scan I don't see how that would help your case. When would his ss go off? It went off when he got near the glass, why would it go off before then, there was no danger?
The point is breaking the glass would be dangerous but it only warned him when he was about to break it, not just by being near it.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
True but Pun has the advantage of prep.Help me out here. I already stated that hes shot Cap with very little prep, propping yourself up on roof does require 3 weeks prep, so if he has more prep he can shot two. Wolverine is just picking himself up from armour piercing machine gun bullets and missles.
Prep isn't going to amount to much if Punisher isn't going to kill them; no armor-piercing rounds or explosives here.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Just because Cyke is a fast shot does not neccesarily give him the win. Punisher obvoulsy knows this and we know from his track record he can find away around it via traps and tacticsYeah and youve done nothing to prove this. Pun has shot Cap but he cant shot Wolverine? Pun has beaten DD before so he cant beat DD? I'm providing scans to porve my case with Spiderman.
Read Punisher and Captain America blood and glory issue 1...yeah he was sniped and shot twice.
These are veteran X-Men, not friggin' Scooby and the Gang. In addition, Logan has been part of damned near every government agency and superhero team in North America, among other things. If they're going after the Punisher, they'd know better than to just waltz into the crosshairs, and I'm willing to bet Cyclops will form a strategy on the spot as usual.
He sniped an unsuspecting Captain America, held his own against Daredevil a few times and shot him full of tranquilizers once. Big god-damned deal. It's still 3 metas against 1 armed man.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Prep isn't going to amount to much if Punisher isn't going to kill them; no armor-piercing rounds or explosives here.
You're serioulsy arguing that Punisher wouldnt use armour piercing rounds on Wolverine when hes shot him point blank in the face with a shotgun...that make sense to you?
Could we please try to keep it civil because I can see where this is heading.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
These are veteran X-Men, not friggin' Scooby and the Gang. In addition, Logan has been part of damned near every government agency and superhero team in North America, among other things. If they're going after the Punisher, they'd know better than to just waltz into the crosshairs, and I'm willing to bet Cyclops will form a strategy on the spot as usual.
Yes im aware of that but just stating that they wont fall for the trap doesnt mean they cant. You know ive noticed you've started being hostile and im wondering if you're going to resort to insults soon.
I already stated that hes shot Cap and Cap is arguably better than cyclops in tactics.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
He sniped an unsuspecting Captain America,
Well for starters Cap knew that a sniper was there. He wasnt unsuspecting.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
held his own against Daredevil a few times and shot him full of tranquilizers once.
Well if you're gonna be like that he held his own againt him 7 times, he also another ocassion dropped Chimney on DD because he didnt want to shot him. Hes also shot Wolverine before, Hell bushwacker has shot Wolverine twice and Pun has shown himself to be faster than Bushwacker on the draw.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Big god-damned deal. It's still 3 metas against 1 armed man.
What do you want me to say? It doesnt take 3 weeks prep to snipe Captain America, if Pun has loads more prep its not illogical for him to do much better.
I guess if Dr Doom is impressed by Puns smarts and The High Evolutionary has failed to kill Pun its obvoulsy irrelevant. I guess gunning down Cap and outsmarting him on another ocassion and having better tactical skills than Cap is all irrelevant....big deal. Nevermind im quite certain your going to accuse me of being a fanboy in your next post.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
You're serioulsy arguing that Punisher wouldnt use armour piercing rounds on Wolverine when hes shot him point blank in the face with shotgun...that make sense to you?You obvoulsy know that Pun would use armour pierecing round, why are you know lying and pretending that its illogical for him to use it? Could we please try to keep it civil because I can see where this is heading.
If you're seriously arguing that Cyclops wouldn't simply blast Castle into submission, then yes, that's what I'm arguing. Besides, it doesn't make sense for Castle to use armor-piercing rounds against Wolverine-- they're not going through that adamantium, and they'll go right through the rest of him. He'd want to use hollow-points to maximize the damage, and those would have to be fired at closer range from a smaller caliber weapon.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yes im aware of that but just stating that they wont fall for the trap doesnt mean they cant. I already stated that hes shot Cap and Cap is arguably better than cyclops in prep.
Cyclops is well-known for developing plans on the spot, and lately, he doesn't seem to have too big a problem with killing. So, what's to stop Cyclops from blasting Frank, his weapons and volleys, or his surroundings away?
Well for starters Cap knew that a sniper was there. He wasnt unsuspecting.[/B][/QUOTE] Did he just find out, or did he go there knowing there was a sniper in the area?
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well if you're gonna be like that he held hiw own againt him 7 times, he also another ocassion dropped Chimney on DD because he didnt want to shot him. Hes also shot Wolverine before, Hell bushwacker has shot Wolverine twice and Pun has shown himself to be faster than Bushwacker on the draw.What do you want me to say. It doesnt take 3 weeks prep to snipe Captain America, if Pun has loads more prep its not illogical for him to do much better.
He held his own against Daredevil in a one-on-one hand-to-hand scenario. This is a 3 on 1. Assuming Castle has been disarmed and is down to just one X-Man, he's still screwed. Cyclops doesn't have to go hand-to-hand, Wolverine outclasses him in just about every way and would still have his claws and healing factor to fall back on, and Beast is physically above Castle's league.
Extra prep time isn't going to count for much after a certain point. If he's going to snipe them, he's going to choose his weapon and his location. Simply having more time isn't going to improve his chances of sniping them.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I guess if Dr Doom is impressed by Puns smarts and The High Evolutionary has failed to kill Pun its obvoulsy irrelevant.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Could we please try to keep it civil because I can see where this is heading. You know ive noticed you've started being hostile and im wondering if you're going to resort to insults soon.
I didn't mean to sound hostile. It's just the way I express myself. Take it with a grain of salt or a spoonful of sugar. Your choice.
