Punisher vs Wolverine, Beast and Cyclops

Originally posted by Phantom Zone

Three Reavers most likley would kill Beast and the very least give Wolverine one hell of a bad time.

Nah, they've been trouble for him just once before, I think. I do recall another another comic, in which he's ambushed and critically injured by Lady Deathstrike and about 3 or 4 Reavers. As soon as he got Katie Power to safety, he took them all apart without much effort. Maybe Jinzin, Srank, or B.Hammer would know the the title and issue number. Not sure how Beast would do against them, especially now that I'm hearing about his supposed upgrades.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Nah, they've been trouble for him just once before, I think. I do recall another another comic, in which he's ambushed and critically injured by Lady Deathstrike and about 3 or 4 Reavers.

They were at most three others. When Wolverine actually fights them we only see two others but that might have been because he killed one of them or the writer forgot. Anyway most of those other Reavers werent on the level of the ones Pun had to fight with the exception of LD.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

As soon as he got Katie Power to safety, he took them all apart without much effort.

He was badly injured before he met Katie and he had to use tactics to beat The Reavers he didnt just walk up to them and kick their arses. In a straight fight he would have got killed. Hell I even think Energizer helped him get to saftey.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

Not sure how Beast would do against them, especially now that I'm hearing about his supposed upgrades.

Again there is no proof hes class 25 ton strength and his official bio doenst state that he has class 25. Wolverine was doing fine against a pissed off upgraded Beast. Beast would get slaugthered.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
They were at most three others. When Wolverine actually fights them we only see two others but that might have been because he killed one of them or the writer forgot. Anyway most of those other Reavers werent on the level of the ones Pun had to fight with the exception of LD.

What? There're only about six Reavers that I know about, and they all have more or less the same capabilities. How are the one the Punisher fought tougher than the ones Wolverine fought?

There's Cole, Macon, and Reese (whom together with Deathstrike, ambushed Wolverine), and then there's Bonebreaker, Skullbuster, and Pretty Boy.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
He was badly injured before he met Katie and he had to use tactics to beat The Reavers he didnt just walk up to them and kick their arses. In a straight fight he would have got killed. Hell I even think Energizer helped him get to saftey.

Right, he:

1) was ambushed
2) got critically wounded
3) escaped Deathstrike and the Reavers
4) got Katie Power to safety, and
5) then completely demolished everyone as soon as he got in a little time to heal and get back in his right mind.

I let my boss borrow one of my Wolverine essentials hardcovers, and the fat bastard hasn't returned it yet, or I'd reference it. I think you're right about Katie helping him out a bit, but if I do remember correctly it was once, and it was pretty minor in the big picture.

My question to you here is, if you're giving the Punisher credit for his prep and spur-of-the-moment strategy, why are you discrediting Wolverine in his fight against the Reavers for using on-the-spot tactics?

Cyclops, Wolverine, and Beast would develop some type of game plan if they're going after Castle, and they don't need prep to do it.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Again there is no proof hes class 25 ton strength and his official bio doenst state that he has class 25. Wolverine was doing fine against a pissed off upgraded Beast. Beast would get slaugthered.

I know there's a lack of proof, which is why I'd said SUPPOSED upgrades. Still, a fight against Wolverine is one thing, and you can't really compare that to how he would do against the Reavers.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
What? There're only about six Reavers that I know about, and they all have more or less the same capabilities. How are the one the Punisher fought tougher than the ones Wolverine fought?

There's Cole, Macon, and Reese (whom together with Deathstrike, ambushed Wolverine), and then there's Bonebreaker, Skullbuster, and Pretty Boy.

For starters some of them pack more firepower (the tractor one). Pretty box has arms that he can extend, and those are useful because he can use those to sneak around corners and go through narrow spaces, he also has eyes on his arms so he can see what hes doing. It might not help in a direct confrontation but it would have helped in that situation.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

Right, he:

1) was ambushed
2) got critically wounded
3) escaped Deathstrike and the Reavers
4) got Katie Power to safety, and
5) then completely demolished everyone as soon as he got in a little time to heal and get back in his right mind.

I let my boss borrow one of my Wolverine essentials hardcovers, and the fat bastard hasn't returned it yet, or I'd reference it. I think you're right about Katie helping him out a bit, but if I do remember correctly it was once, and it was pretty minor in the big picture.

He didnt get Katie Power to safety she got him to safety. I think the fact they actually got into a cab helped them quite signifcantly, 🤨

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

My question to you here is, if you're giving the Punisher credit for his prep and spur-of-the-moment strategy, why are you discrediting Wolverine in his fight against the Reavers for using on-the-spot tactics?

I am im simply stating that there were cirumstances to it. We also need to take into account the Reavers that Punisher fought were more verastile and had more firepower.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

Cyclops, Wolverine, and Beast would develop some type of game plan if they're going after Castle, and they don't need prep to do it.

They might do they might not.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

Still, a fight against Wolverine is one thing, and you can't really compare that to how he would do against the Reavers.

Yeah you're right so lets start saying its ABC logic. Lets not evaluate the evidence that we have at present. I mean he doesnt have adamantuim claws or a HF as good as wolvrines and has much weaker fighting skills. Hes inferior to Wolverine in alot of aspects obvouly he'll kick their butts.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
He didnt get Katie Power to safety she got him to safety. I think the fact they actually got into a cab helped them quite signifcantly, 🤨

She recognized him, and got him in a cab because he was obviously hurt and in feral mode. 😐

When Deathstrike and the Reavers caught up, he got her out of the cab. In fact, I remember him picking her up like a ragdoll and running off to safety at least half the issue. Anything else she did aside from keep him company and try and calm him down, I don't remember.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I am im simply stating that there were cirumstances to it. We also need to take into account the Reavers that Punisher fought were more verastile and had more firepower.

I had to check Wikipedia and a few comic sites for this one, and they say Punisher fought Reese, Bonebreaker, and Pretty Boy. Reese was there for the Wolverine fight. Bonebreaker is the only one of the three who packs any extra heat. Frank still needed Microchip to bail his ass out, and from what I've read about it, they almost got killed.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
They might do they might not.

Furthermore, if they can strike him anywhere at anytime after Castle's 3 weeks of prep are up, that means setting up traps would be pretty useless.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yeah you're right so lets start saying its ABC logic. Lets not evaluate the evidence that we have at present. I mean he doesnt have adamantuim claws or a HF as good as wolvrines and has much weaker fighting skills. Hes inferior to Wolverine in alot of aspects obvouly he'll kick their butts.

Now you're selling Beast short. While on the Avengers, Beast was shown to match the speed and agility of Captain America, a guy who routinely dodged bullets when not blocking them with his shield. That was before his further mutation/upgrades. He's just as fast and agile as Wolverine, if not more. He's smarter and even stronger than both too, even if we don't know by how big a margin.

Wolverine's got skills, damage soak/durability, and can inflict more damage. While I think he'd win a fight between the two of them, it's not like Wolverine's got Beast beat in all categories. Beast would do fine against one or more the Reavers, WITHOUT PREP, unlike Castle.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
After the 3 weeks the Xmen start to hunt him down and cannot get any outside help apart from themselves.

Basically means that they know who they're dealing with. Prep or no the only chance that Punisher will actually win this one is if he does the ol' big bomb trap.

I really don't see these 3 X-men as falling for that anytime soon. They'd also have to be monumentally stupid to allow Frank to snipe em. Avoiding a sniper is easy enough, especially for people of the caliber these 3 are. They'll also know that Frank will prolly use either bombs or snipering to take em down. They'll adjust to compensate.

I mean, at most he can prolly take down one of them. But 3 at once? Highly doubtful.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
She recognized him, and got him in a cab because he was obviously hurt and in feral mode. 😐

When Deathstrike and the Reavers caught up, he got her out of the cab. In fact, I remember him picking her up like a ragdoll and running off to safety at least half the issue. Anything else she did aside from keep him company and try and calm him down, I don't remember.

Yeah you're right. Obvoulsy the cab ride didnt give him time to rest and recuperate. Hell when they got out of the cab both him and her had a fairly long conversation obvoulsy he didnt have time to rest and get better. Obvoulsy the cab ride had no factor in that at all.

He wasnt running for half an issue..just several panels.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

I had to check Wikipedia and a few comic sites for this one, and they say Punisher fought Reese, Bonebreaker, and Pretty Boy. Reese was there for the Wolverine fight. Bonebreaker is the only one of the three who packs any extra heat.

So what, he still packs extra heat. I already explained Pretty boys versatility.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

Frank still needed Microchip to bail his ass out, and from what I've read about it,

Didnt I already state that Pun gets help from Microchip in this thread? They didnt have 3 weeks prep they had hours, looking back on that this is something I got wrong they did have some form of peparation but even then they first turned up they were not expecting to fight people like The Reavers. However they defintely had nowhere near 3 weeks prep.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

they almost got killed.

What am I supposed to say to that? Was 3 weeks prep involved....no. Wasnt Wolverine almost killed? Damn.....man.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

In the opening post, you specified that the X-Men were coming after the Punisher. Even without preparation, they will formulate a strategy going in as a team or individually. To think otherwise is lowballing them.

Furthermore, if they can strike him anywhere at anytime after Castle's 3 weeks of prep are up, that means setting up traps would be pretty useless.

I know but assuming he cant get them into a trap is lowballing Castle. Hell he managed to lure out Dr Doom why the hell couldnt he lure the Xmen into a trap?

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

Now you're selling Beast short. While on the Avengers, Beast was shown to match the speed and agility of Captain America, a guy who routinely dodged bullets when not blocking them with his shield. That was before his further mutation/upgrades. He's just as fast and agile as Wolverine, if not more. He's smarter and even stronger than both too, even if we don't know by how big a margin.

No I am not, the only thing Beast is superior to Wolverine is strength and even that is debateable. The point is if Beast isnt superior to Wolverine in anything how the hell is going to beat The Reavers?

No he is not smarter than Wolverine. In science yes.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

Wolverine's got skills, damage soak/durability, and can inflict more damage. While I think he'd win a fight between the two of them, it's not like Wolverine's got Beast beat in all categories. Beast would do fine against one or more the Reavers, WITHOUT PREP, unlike Castle.

Your not proving that he can beat three reavers without prep hell he may not even beat one. They unload a clip in him and hes ****ed.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Basically means that they know who they're dealing with. Prep or no the only chance that Punisher will actually win this one is if he does the ol' big bomb trap.

I really don't see these 3 X-men as falling for that anytime soon. They'd also have to be monumentally stupid to allow Frank to snipe em. Avoiding a sniper is easy enough, especially for people of the caliber these 3 are. They'll also know that Frank will prolly use either bombs or snipering to take em down. They'll adjust to compensate.

Thats funny when Cap found out he was being sniped he wasnt able to adjust. Not only did he knows he was being sniped he actually had time to figure out an escape strategy....he got gunned down.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210

I mean, at most he can prolly take down one of them. But 3 at once? Highly doubtful.

Maybe, maybe not but if he can go up against opponents smarter than the Xmen its not a forgone conclusion he cant.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Thats funny when Cap found out he was being sniped he wasnt able to adjust. Not only did he knows he was being sniped he actually had time to figure out an escape strategy....he got gunned down.

Show us the scans of this so we can decide how some one who prolly walked into a trap can be relevant to the thread in question.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Maybe, maybe not but if he can go up against opponents smarter than the Xmen its not a forgone conclusion he cant.

Everyone in comics have gone up against people stronger and smarter than them and somehow pull off a win. This is often due to jobbing. Fortunately, that is not allowed in forum battles.

X-men take this 9/10 (I give Castle one because it IS possible that he can get lucky and somehow trick the X-men into walking into an obvious trap.)

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Show us the scans of this so we can decide how some one who prolly walked into a trap can be relevant to the thread in question.

Read Punisher blood and glory issue 1. Cap initially didnt know that Pun was there but found and had time to react but still got shot.

However Cap and Falcon were both hunting Winter Solidier and the only reason why Cap didnt get sniped was because Falcon's falcon saved him. Winter Solider has comparable gun skills to Punisher.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210

Everyone in comics have gone up against people stronger and smarter than them and somehow pull off a win. This is often due to jobbing. Fortunately, that is not allowed in forum battles.

and you wouldnt say it was jobbing if Captain America had done it. Unfortunetley theres proof that Punisher is tactically smarter than Captain America. So no its not jobbing. Its also not jobbing when Punisher survived an assasination attempt from High Evolutinary.

However if you want to say that every good thing that Pun does is due to jobbing then I simply cant argue with that.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Read Punisher blood and glory issue 1. Cap initially didnt know that Pun was there but found and had time to react but still got shot.

However Cap and Falcon were both hunting Winter Solidier and the only reason why Cap didnt get sniped was because Falcon's falcon saved him. Winter Solider has comparable gun skills to Punisher.

and you wouldnt say it was jobbing if Captain America had done it. Unfortunetley theres proof that Punisher is tactically smarter than Captain America. So no its not jobbing. Its also not jobbing when Punisher survived an assasination attempt from High Evolutinary.

Actually, Cap is the jobber king. Basically everyone jobs to Cap.

But that's not relevant here.

No one is saying Frank sucks. He's a brilliant tactician and an experienced soldier. However, tactics will only take you so far.

You keep saying that Frank will prolly find a way, but other than a bomb trap (w/c will be utterly stupid for the X-men to fall into, granting that they already know who they're dealing with).

Guns will barely slow down Wolverine and if they're any smart (and they are), they'll prolly use cover intelligently to avoid getting sniped. Wolvie will prolly just track down Frank thru his scent (but be smart enough to check for traps before entering a room).

I really don't see how Frank can win here, but you apparently do.

Pls enlighten us.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
They might do they might not.

they wouldn't. cyclops preps on the fly more than he does with actual prep time.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Actually, Cap is the jobber king. Basically everyone jobs to Cap.

Forget it, if you're simply going to state that everybody jobs to Cap them im wasting my time. Obvously if you dont like something you're just going to use your own personal bias and state it as jobbing so there is no point in having a further discussion.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
But that's not relevant here.

No one is saying Frank sucks. He's a brilliant tactician and an experienced soldier. However, tactics will only take you so far.

You keep saying that Frank will prolly find a way, but other than a bomb trap (w/c will be utterly stupid for the X-men to fall into, granting that they already know who they're dealing with).

Guns will barely slow down Wolverine and if they're any smart (and they are), they'll prolly use cover intelligently to avoid getting sniped. Wolvie will prolly just track down Frank thru his scent (but be smart enough to check for traps before entering a room).

I really don't see how Frank can win here, but you apparently do.

Pls enlighten us.

I just explained it to you. You didnt even bother to read it, you just ignored it and repeated some stuff. Anyway forget it.

Originally posted by Raoul
they wouldn't. cyclops preps on the fly more than he does with actual prep time.

Well obvoulsy he will come up with some plan doesnt mean he'll succeed
.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Forget it, if you're simply going to state that everybody jobs to Cap them im wasting my time. Obvously if you dont like something you're just going to use your own personal bias and state it as jobbing so there is no point in having a further discussion

The jobbing part was my opinion and I also said that the jobbing part was irrelevant to this discussion.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I just explained it to you. You didnt even bother to read it, you just ignored it and repeated some stuff. Anyway forget it.

Sorry, basically, from what I've read in your replies you basically said: "Punisher successfully sniped cap even tho he knew he was being sniped, so he can kill these guys." over and over again. If I missed anything else please re-post them so I can reread em and understand how in hell he can win here.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well obvoulsy he will come up with some plan doesnt mean he'll succeed.

Same can be said for Frank. Thing is, if his plan fails all he got is guns. If their plan fails they still got their powers and numbers to fall back on...

Team takes this at least 9/10.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
The jobbing part was my opinion and I also said that the jobbing part was irrelevant to this discussion.

Actually it might well be. If you're stating that everybody jobs to Cap then obvoulsy beating him isnt all that.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210

Sorry, basically, from what I've read in your replies you basically said: "Punisher successfully sniped cap even tho he knew he was being sniped, so he can kill these guys." over and over again. If I missed anything else please re-post them so I can reread em and understand how in hell he can win here.

You know I did explain that Pun did this with considerably less prep than 3 weeks and alot less resources. Ok you understand the concept that if you have more time and alot more resources and help that you can do even better. 😐

I also explained how Winter Soldier almost sniped Captain America and both Cap and Falcon were both hunting Winter Solidier. The only thing that saved Cap was that Falcon's falcon saved his butt.

Can you understand where im going with this? WS didnt even really know who Cap and Falcon (for example didnt know Falcon had control of falcon and therefore could not anticipate it) were and has comparble gun skills to Pun and used nowhere near 3 weeks prep. Looking at the evidence theres a decent chance that at least one of the team will be sniped at that person will probably be Cyclops.

Also to add. Dardevil, Moon Knight, Shang Chi, Black Widow were forumlating a team to take down Punisher and Punisher was spying on them and they didnt even know. He even managed to get fairly detailed info on them. If you can spy on somebody you can sipe them, obvoulsy DD didnt want Punisher to spy on him but was not able to stop him.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210

Same can be said for Frank. Thing is, if his plan fails all he got is guns. If their plan fails they still got their powers and numbers to fall back on...

Yes thats possible lets not assume that its a foregone conlusioin shall we?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Actually it might well be. If you're stating that everybody jobs to Cap then obvoulsy beating him isnt all that.

Like Punisher, Cap is just a man. An uberskilled, ubersmart and uberexperienced combatant. But still a man. They both are. Unlike what this thread is about. These aren't mere men. So, yeah, give 2 people of potentially the same advantages and give one of them a gun and prep and the conclusion is obvious. I don't give the fact that Cap battles Superhumans and win any weight here, tho. Those always had extenuating circumstances why he succeeded or at the very least jobbed. Or do you really think a guy with a shield can beat a guy who can lift cars and dodge bullets?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
You know I did explain that Pun did this with considerably less prep than 3 weeks and alot less resources. Ok you understand the concept that if you have more time and alot more resources and help that you can do even better. 😐

I also explained how Winter Soldier almost sniped Captain America and both Cap and Falcon were both hunting Winter Solidier. The only thing that saved Cap was that Falcon's falcon saved his butt.

Can you understand where im going with this? WS didnt even really know who Cap and Falcon (for example didnt know Falcon had control of falcon and therefore could not anticipate it) were and has comparble gun skills to Pun and used nowhere near 3 weeks prep. Looking at the evidence theres a decent chance that at least one of the team will be sniped at that person will probably be Cyclops.

Also to add. Dardevil, Moon Knight, Shang Chi, Black Widow were forumlating a team to take down Punisher and Punisher was spying on them and they didnt even know. He even managed to get fairly detailed info on them. If you can spy on somebody you can sipe them, obvoulsy DD didnt want Punisher to spy on him but was not able to stop him.

Yes, but they were in a place where they assumed they were safe, else they would have taken care not to put themselves in snipable positions. The rules of this thread indicated that Wolvie, Cyc and Beast were hunting him down. Means they know that they might get sniped or led into a bomb trap. Chances of people of their caliber falling for those are slim at best.

You also didn't indicate that Castle has prior knowledge on how and w/c direction they're coming from so they have just as much a chance to stalk him as he does them (you need to spot your target to snipe them). Better, in fact, as Wolvie is a much better tracker than Castle is. Castle will need to know where they're coming from first (w/c is unlikely) and once they engage castle (in either long range or H2H, it's over).

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yes thats possible lets not assume that its a foregone conlusioin shall we?

Why do you think I gave castle one win? I said 9/10 for the team, didn't I?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well obvoulsy he will come up with some plan doesnt mean he'll succeed

his plans tend to succeed more than they fail.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Like Punisher, Cap is just a man. An uberskilled, ubersmart and uberexperienced combatant. But still a man.

Not really Cap is an enhanced human. I mean Punisher is clearly not just a man but Cap has had enhancements Pun hasnt. Sorry mate you clearly dont know what you're talking about.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210

They both are. Unlike what this thread is about. These aren't mere men. So, yeah, give 2 people of potentially the same advantages and give one of them a gun and prep and the conclusion is obvious. I don't give the fact that Cap battles Superhumans and win any weight here, tho. Those always had extenuating circumstances why he succeeded or at the very least jobbed.

Exactly as I stated before statements like that make discussing with you a waste of time. You're downplaying Cap while trying to make out the mutants are somehow superior because they are mutants.

They dont job to him, hes that good.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210

Or do you really think a guy with a shield can beat a guy who can lift cars and dodge bullets?

Are you for real? You really dont know much about Cap do you? You're probably one of those posters who thinks Cap is a glorified Olympic athlete. Yes he can actualy and theres plenty of proof that indicates that he can.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210

Yes, but they were in a place where they assumed they were safe, else they would have taken care not to put themselves in snipable positions.

The point is DD would have tried to hide his actvities from Punisher as much as possible and wasnt able to do it. If they couldnt do it how on earth are these three going to do it?

Originally posted by D_Dude1210

The rules of this thread indicated that Wolvie, Cyc and Beast were hunting him down. Means they know that they might get sniped or led into a bomb trap. Chances of people of their caliber falling for those are slim at best.

And again if Captain America who is tactically superior to Cyclops and Falcon couldnt hide from a sniper with much less prep and resources how on earth are these three going to do it?

Originally posted by D_Dude1210

You also didn't indicate that Castle has prior knowledge on how and w/c direction they're coming from so they have just as much a chance to stalk him as he does them (you need to spot your target to snipe them). Better, in fact, as Wolvie is a much better tracker than Castle is. Castle will need to know where they're coming from first (w/c is unlikely) and once they engage castle (in either long range or H2H, it's over).

Prior knowledge is standard and hes knows Wolverine personally hes also beaten Wolverine with zero prep and had to come up with a plan on the fly. Doesnt matter wether Wolverine is a better tracker hes hidden from people much better than Wolverine, he can also hide his scent and use equipment that can harm Wolverines senses. Punisher can slso use informants the team cant.

Hes also beaten Spiderman, Wolverine and DD with prep but people ***** about that arc.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210

Why do you think I gave castle one win? I said 9/10 for the team, didn't I?

One win, brilliant. In fact it could end up in stalemate because they probably wont be able to find them.

Originally posted by Raoul
his plans tend to succeed more than they fail.

and its not conclusive that it will work when Pun has gone up against people tactically better. Im pretty sure theres proof that Cap is tactically superior to Cyclops.

even if cap IS better than scott, that's not saying much, as the argument could be made that cap is the best tactician in marvel, and cyclops is only second to him.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Not really Cap is an enhanced human. I mean Punisher is clearly not just a man but Cap has had enhancements Pun hasnt.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Are you for real? You really dont know much about Cap do you? You're probably one of those posters who thinks Cap is a glorified Olympic athlete. Yes he can actualy and theres plenty of proof that indicates that he can.

His abilities have always been written as peak human and a bit short of superhuman. Thing is, all his abilities are at this point, not just strength. I collected Cap comics for close to 8 years, fyi. So, I know a bit about him, nothing I've read showed him to be any stronger than the strongest normal human. He only knows to hit where it hurts and to outsmart and outskill his opponents. Unless you can post scans of him lifting cars and speedblitzing opponents using superspeed, you need to get "for real" yourself. And what does Cap's abilities have relevance in this thread anyway??

You claim because Cap was so good, he shoulda been able to avoid getting sniped when he knew he was about to get sniped. Clearly he wasn't.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Exactly as I stated before statements like that make discussing with you a waste of time. You're downplaying Cap while trying to make out the mutants are somehow superior because they are mutants.

No, they're superior becuase they're extremely well trained mutants with powers which have shown to be very effective against gun totting opponents. And there's 3 of them.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
The point is DD would have tried to hide his actvities from Punisher as much as possible and wasnt able to do it. If they couldnt do it how on earth are these three going to do it?

Again, you seem to assume that since he's been able to do it to some people, then everyone has no chance of being able to detect him. Like I said, this is a forum battle, we use abilities plus circumstances to determine the winner. He does have tracking skills of his own and can prolly disrupt Wolvie's tracking. I'll give you that. But you also seem to assume that they'll stride into an open field like lemmings where there's a good vantage point so that they'd get sniped.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
And again if Captain America who is tactically superior to Cyclops and Falcon couldnt hide from a sniper with much less prep and resources how on earth are these three going to do it?

The circumstances on how the Team will approach their hunt of the Punisher will have that possibility already considered. It is easy to avoid sniper fire as long as you play it smart and keep yourself in areas with little to no vantage points and to keep moving in and out of cover. If you allow yourself to get caught in open ground, then it doesn't matter how tactically smart you are, you're doomed.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Prior knowledge is standard and hes knows Wolverine personally hes also beaten Wolverine with zero prep and had to come up with a plan on the fly. Doesnt matter wether Wolverine is a better tracker hes hidden from people much better than Wolverine, he can also hide his scent and use equipment that can harm Wolverines senses. Punisher can slso use informants the team cant.

Why do you keep stating "Cuz he's beat this people so he WINS!". Everyone has low and high showings. While we do base arguments on that sometimes, we don't always go with that. Otherwise, we can all argue that squirrel girl can destroy the Silver Surfer. And that Captain America can kick Firelord's butt cuz he beat Spiderman.

This is also clearly one of those debates where you NEED to state HOW he's going to win so that we can argue about if it's possible for that to come about. State the HOW and not "Cuz he beat X", otherwise forfeit the argument.

If you think that Castle is gonna snipe Cyc and then stalk beast and wolvie one by one then you're way is incredibly unlikely.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
One win, brilliant. In fact it could end up in stalemate because they probably wont be able to find them.

One win s'all he deserves. Well, if this thread was about Punisher trying to hide from them, it might. But he'd have to engage them sooner or later or this thread is pointless.

And damn, you need to drink less coffee. Calm the hell down buddy. Not trying to crap on your hero or anything.