What if the Empire invaded modern day earth?

Started by Red Nemesis53 pages

Originally posted by radu1234
metal doesnt incinerate,the bigest proof that non-organic materia doesnt incinerate is that fact that planets exist.before a planets creation,it reaches temperatures of milions of degrees ,and it doesnt incinerate.if non-organic materia would incinerate,there would be no materia cause it would've all burned after the Big Bang.so metal only shifts from one agregation state to another,in the end becoming close to gas.

umm... no. I am unaware of any law or rule or truism of chemistry that limits metal in this way. Do you have some sort of link proving it? (A quick Google search got me nothing.) I am willing to entertain this notion. (This is a request to prove that metals will never sublimate and that they will change states too slowly to change from metal -> liquid -> gas in the space of a lightsaber.) However. The reasoning you gave (re: the big bang) is absolutely atrocious.

Here's why:

if non-organic materia would incinerate,there would be no materia cause it would've all burned after the Big Bang.

The big bang did not just start spewing matter. Various subatomic particles (of matter and anti-matter) were formed and they annihilated each other rapidly. Energy was released. There was a slight asymmetry between matter and antimatter, allowing us to be here today. Hydrogen formed. Stars coalesced. Hydrogen was fused into helium. Heluim fused into... ad infinitum until Iron (I think that's the cutoff). Iron was fused into larger molecules during supernovae. None of this says anything about its state.

If your real objection is to the word 'incinerate' (since metals cannot undergo combustion reactions) then a better choice might be sublimation, although that does not convey the whole 'total destruction' thing lightsabers do. Also: gaseous Iron is incredibly hot and lightsabers do not appear to release heat when they come into contact with metal (or at least prevent the metal from radiating heat, which amounts to the same thing).

Planets have gravity. (re: the planet bit)

Conservation of matter (mass?) says that elements are found in equal amounts on both sides of equation; even a combustion reaction doesn't actually destroy elements. It rearranges them. So using the technical definition of incineration is fallacious but the colloquial usage (it gets vaporized/disappeared/blowed up/etc.) is perfectly accurate.


now,a lightsaber transfers its heat to any material that enters its beam.if a bullet would pass through a lightsaber,it would take its heat and hit Vader with that heat and ,due to lack of resistance from the beam, with the same force that it had.that would pretty much kill him,cause not even his armor can withstand a lightsaber's heat.

Not necessarily. Sabers do not radiate heat (if they melt metal through heat then no jedi could hold them so close to their body) and the metal they melt does not radiate heat (Qui-Gon was hilt-deep in a molten blast door, and nothing I've seen about durasteel says that it does not radiate heat (since that is impossible at these levels). ((It could withstand heat, but that does nothing to its actual temperature- it could be very hot but unfazed.))

The bottom line is that your assertion that metals cannot incinerate is either pedantic in the extreme or ignorant. Furthermore, the rationalization behind it includes a non-sequitur (the Big bang is utterly irrelevant) and partially misleading application of needlessly technical definitions (combustion does not apply to metals but no one was suggesting that CH4 + 2O2 → CO2 + 2H2O was the reason Vader would be safe).

Red Nemesis
Sabers do not radiate heat (if they melt metal through heat then no jedi could hold them so close to their body) and the metal they melt does not radiate heat (Qui-Gon was hilt-deep in a molten blast door, and nothing I've seen about durasteel says that it does not radiate heat (since that is impossible at these levels). ((It could withstand heat, but that does nothing to its actual temperature- it could be very hot but unfazed.))
Luke Skywalker walked on lava. A bunch of a practically naked people were huddled around a small bank right next to said lava.

Star Wars has PIS. This does not mean that things melted by lightsabers don't give off heat.

Originally posted by radu1234
metal doesnt incinerate,the bigest proof that non-organic materia doesnt incinerate is that fact that planets exist.before a planets creation,it reaches temperatures of milions of degrees ,and it doesnt incinerate.if non-organic materia would incinerate,there would be no materia cause it would've all burned after the Big Bang.so metal only shifts from one agregation state to another,in the end becoming close to gas.

now,a lightsaber transfers its heat to any material that enters its beam.if a bullet would pass through a lightsaber,it would take its heat and hit Vader with that heat and ,due to lack of resistance from the beam, with the same force that it had.that would pretty much kill him,cause not even his armor can withstand a lightsaber's heat.

Red got it down better than I can, but I'll summarize it anyways: sabers radiate only light, no heat. Vader's suit can withstand extreme temperatures, and his filtration system will take care of the tiny wisps of noxious vapour that exremely hot bullets would emit. Bullet-wise, the only thing Vader needs to worry about is being hit by an overwheliming barrage of .50 cal, the concussive force taking it's toll on him.

WHY IS LUCIEN ARGUING FOR THE EMPIRE WHEN HE THINKS THAT EARTH WINS IN A SPITE???? It doesn't matter whether or not metal incinerates, even if Vader can block bullets he can't a MILLION bullets a minute, block bombs, electric guns (they could adapt and make them to destroy Vader's life support), bombs and missiles.

Off topic: dude, some of the ads you have are a bit inappropriate... I have a feeling that most of this site is children.

Electric guns?

Surely an EMP pulse would be much more effective?

If it worked.

Originally posted by mattatom
Electric guns?

Surely an EMP pulse would be much more effective?

If it worked.

Yes, that too.

Or just nuke him!

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
WHY IS LUCIEN ARGUING FOR THE EMPIRE WHEN HE THINKS THAT EARTH WINS IN A SPITE???? It doesn't matter whether or not metal incinerates, even if Vader can block bullets he can't a MILLION bullets a minute, block bombs, electric guns (they could adapt and make them to destroy Vader's life support), bombs and missiles.
Arguing ONE point doesn't equate to me supporting a whole side. Keep trying.

Earth doesn't have time to specifically identify, analyze, and adapt their technology to Vader's suit, lightsaber, and Force-powers. I mean, it's not like automatically Earth knows anything about Vader.

why would they even need to adapt?

the tactics and technology we use now would be more then adequate to destroy vader and his army. hell there is no proof or even likelihood that his suit is resistant to the EMP's we can create. the moment they landed or appeared every country in the world would know about their presence and the size of their army, as well as visual feeds, in a matter of hours. every available military satellite would be focused on the army and those have strong enough magnification scopes to see vader's face as you were looking at him from ten feet away. we would know quickly that he is the leader, after a few battles we would know that he and his entire army rely completely on weapons that use computers and programming, at which point the next logical step would be a massive EMP bombing that would knock out the Imperial's electronics for who knows how long. vader would die from his suit failing, and that would be the end of it. the various anti-aircraft weaponry that requires targeting systems(as no human has the reflexes to hit a jet moving at mach 1 twenty thousand feet away) would fail, making the entire army defensless against airstrikes.

without anti aircraft weaponry, how would the Emprie defend against this?

YouTube video

Originally posted by WO Polaski
why would they even need to adapt?

the tactics and technology we use now would be more then adequate to destroy vader and his army. hell there is no proof or even likelihood that his suit is resistant to the EMP's we can create. the moment they landed or appeared every country in the world would know about their presence and the size of their army, as well as visual feeds, in a matter of hours. every available military satellite would be focused on the army and those have strong enough magnification scopes to see vader's face as you were looking at him from ten feet away. we would know quickly that he is the leader, after a few battles we would know that he and his entire army rely completely on weapons that use computers and programming, at which point the next logical step would be a massive EMP bombing that would knock out the Imperial's electronics for who knows how long. vader would die from his suit failing, and that would be the end of it. the various anti-aircraft weaponry that requires targeting systems(as no human has the reflexes to hit a jet moving at mach 1 twenty thousand feet away) would fail, making the entire army defensless against airstrikes.

without anti aircraft weaponry, how would the Emprie defend against this?

YouTube video

They wouldn't, Earth would absolutely annihilate Vader and every Imperial. The Imps don't stand a chance in hell. With no air support, AA, supplies, intel, or common sense... the Empire is f*cked within days, at the most.

thank you. 😐

i just wanted to hear SOMEONE say it. my ego is sensitive. 😂

Originally posted by WO Polaski
thank you. 😐

i just wanted to hear SOMEONE say it. my ego is sensitive. 😂

No problem. The thread creator failed to understand that he created a scenario in which there's no possible chance that the Empire would win. Kind of makes you wonder why he did it. Ah well.

lol.

id make another thread but i think it might get closed because this one already exists even if this one is flawed.

Originally posted by WO Polaski
lol.

id make another thread but i think it might get closed because this one already exists even if this one is flawed.

Actually, if you establish reasonable parameters, the Mods should let it stay. God knows by now they're aware of this little episode.

huh. ill give it a shot then.

lol,donno what to debate about anymore...should i continue on the vader couldnt block even one single bullet with lightsaber(and he can't) cause i dont think u understood what i said before or u did,but dont quite know that sublimated metal would still exist in the atmosphere and would radiate a heat and pressure of huge proportions basicly turning Vader to ash) or just answear to the other post(to which creating an argument will be kinda hard since i dont know the names of their army so i have to look up each vehicle name >.>😉

the actual main topic is clearly solved,we would win .

k,i'm bored so i'll just write it down,read it if u wish ...

k so we decided that vader can be killed by our weaponry easly.the main point is that if he could even block one bullet with his lightsaber.

k first off incineration is something way way different from sublimation.incinerate means carbonize ,turn to ash,combining the atoms with oxigen to create sth else.sublimation refers to changing the state of a solid to gas,but still maintaining its atoms in their previos state.

metal(a bullet is usually made of lead,but it can be made of any metal and any metal would act the same with only a difference of temperature) boils at about 2600 degrees C. surface lava has about 700 degrees. these numbers dont even compare.vader walked on lava,but a bullet,only molten,not gasified is more than 3 times hotter.

u said that if a bullet would pass through the beam of a lightsaber ,it would sublimate .but that doesnt mean it would get destroyed,dissappear.it would only turn to gas instead of solid,and that gas would have a huge temperature and pressure and,because of that instant huge pressure,it would explode.we are talking of over 10k degrees on a small bullet.that results in a pressure of an order of 10 at the power of 6 atm(using the termodinamics formula pV=nRT) ...that would be a huge boom in our 1 atm environment.

the basic idea of my point is that metal cant dissappear.i couldnt find a link on that,but try asking anybody with some knowledge of chemistry.if ur at school/college,ask ur chemistry teacher.metal is just like water.water cannot dissappear only when heated,it turns to vapours and keeps getting hotter,but its still there.it can burn u if u get close to those vapours.same with metal.it does not dissappear at extreme heat,it turn to vapours and maintain its inertia(if previusly had one...being shot from a rifle,it has a big inertia) damageing anything in their path.

and now,since metal cant dissappear because of heat:
a saber can cut vader in a ms. something that doesnt burn and stays in the laser beam for a ms would gain the exact heat the saber can deal in a ms...sooo it can penetrate vader easly and kill him

hope u understand now.

..........?????

Originally posted by radu1234
k,i'm bored so i'll just write it down,read it if u wish ...

k so we decided that vader can be killed by our weaponry easly.the main point is that if he could even block one bullet with his lightsaber.

k first off incineration is something way way different from sublimation.incinerate means carbonize ,turn to ash,combining the atoms with oxigen to create sth else.sublimation refers to changing the state of a solid to gas,but still maintaining its atoms in their previos state.

metal(a bullet is usually made of lead,but it can be made of any metal and any metal would act the same with only a difference of temperature) boils at about 2600 degrees C. surface lava has about 700 degrees. these numbers dont even compare.vader walked on lava,but a bullet,only molten,not gasified is more than 3 times hotter.

u said that if a bullet would pass through the beam of a lightsaber ,it would sublimate .but that doesnt mean it would get destroyed,dissappear.it would only turn to gas instead of solid,and that gas would have a huge temperature and pressure and,because of that instant huge pressure,it would explode.we are talking of over 10k degrees on a small bullet.that results in a pressure of an order of 10 at the power of 6 atm(using the termodinamics formula pV=nRT) ...that would be a huge boom in our 1 atm environment.

the basic idea of my point is that metal cant dissappear.i couldnt find a link on that,but try asking anybody with some knowledge of chemistry.if ur at school/college,ask ur chemistry teacher.metal is just like water.water cannot dissappear only when heated,it turns to vapours and keeps getting hotter,but its still there.it can burn u if u get close to those vapours.same with metal.it does not dissappear at extreme heat,it turn to vapours and maintain its inertia(if previusly had one...being shot from a rifle,it has a big inertia) damageing anything in their path.

and now,since metal cant dissappear because of heat:
a saber can cut vader in a ms. something that doesnt burn and stays in the laser beam for a ms would gain the exact heat the saber can deal in a ms...sooo it can penetrate vader easly and kill him

hope u understand now.

Were you ignoring my post? Look back at where I gave examples of Vader's armor, and the material it's made of.

pff...u dont quite get it do you.it doesnt matter the material since it reaches a heat point known to cut the respective material.
nvm just forget it >.>

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Arguing ONE point doesn't equate to me supporting a whole side. Keep trying.

Almost EVERY SINGLE POST that you've done was supporting the Empire.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
They wouldn't, Earth would absolutely annihilate Vader and every Imperial. The Imps don't stand a chance in hell. With no air support, AA, supplies, intel, or common sense... the Empire is f*cked within days, at the most.

YOU FAIL

Air support? Just read this, and RESPOND to it logically as quickly as you can:

I GAVE THEM TIE FIGHTERS IN A PREVIOUS POST (that you obvously didn't read)!!!! I AGREED to your complaints, and yet you IGNORE my generosity! How come when I give them air support you ignore it and still claim that the Empire doesn't get air support???? Here's the post:

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

How about this: they get 100 tie fighters, OK?

A

Supplies? I GAVE THEM ENOUGH SUPPLIES TO LAST FROM SOUTH TO NORTH AMERICA!!!!! If your calculations are correct, that should be enough for them to get the America and then they could get more supplies via raids.

Intel? Again: I GAVE INTO YOUR DEMANDS AND STATED THAT THE EMPIRE HAS INTEL ABOUT EARTH ! You get that? Let me repeat it: HAS INTEL ABOUT EARTH ! I stated that SEVERAL PAGES AGO!!!! Why do you keep on ignoring me when I give in to your demands???

Forgive me if I'm using too many caps, but I hate it when Lucien complains about me making it a spite and yet when I try to fix it IGNORES my posts.