Originally posted by Janus Marius
Not that graceful, no. I'd have to reread it, but he pretty much has to high tail it out because he was ambushed by goons. Not armies, goons.
* checks *
[engage Mace fanboy]
Mace's lightsaber is out of batteries. The enemy is using stun but has plasma cannons trained on him. Somebody else gives him Depa's saber and he cleans up.
Was that what you meant?
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
* checks *[engage Mace fanboy]
Mace's lightsaber is out of batteries. The enemy is using stun but has plasma cannons trained on him. Somebody else gives him Depa's saber and he cleans up.
Was that what you meant?
I reread it, I guess I forgot that they used stun blasts. Oh well. Mace is black, I win.
the idea we're discussing is vader so i wont refer to the stormtroops.we consider that if vader is dead,they lost
weeeell...what u said and the movie totally contradicts...i've only seen the movie and taken all my arguments from the movie.if it is like in the movie then we win.
with what u said ,u make them sound like superman
1) k ,first, from what phisics and the *movie* tells us,bullets can pass through a lightsaber.metal can only melt,it doesn't interact with oxigen to incinerate,its molecule move faster and faster until,at a certain huge heat point,it turns to gas.if the lightsaber would be that hot,it would pass through a door in a second,but it actually takes time to melt.and even if it would bring the metal to the point of turning into gas,that gas would have the same temperature as the saber ,but unlike the saber,it would transmit that energy in the surroundings killing vader instanly. again in the movie(phantom manace i presume),u can see them sticking the saber in the door,and then see the door slowly melting.so the bullet would pass through the saber,taking its heat and turning it into a molten ball,without losing its inertia so even if vader blocks it he's dead.
2)in ur description of blaster bolt,it didnt mention anywhere its speed.u just presumed based on the fact that it contains light which is super fast,but u dont know how fast the material part of the bolt makes it move,so the movies/animated seeries/everything digital about the bolts still stands being the only ones that show its speed,which is far far smaller than our bullets.
also if they could make shiny lines(bolts and lightsaber) move on the screen in the 80's,they could most likely make them move faster(it would've been even easier).they choose the speed trust me.
3)now,if they were fast enough to block small projectiles moving at over 700 m/s (in case of a common AK-47)and at least double that from a vehicle mounted mini-gun,then he'd be able to move(his center of gravity) at a huge speed .
i proly went wrong with pure telekinetic i wasn't quite refering to that but to the fact that its a mind only power.it cant augment the body. if i'm wrong here and the novels say that they can augment their phisical capacities to the point of stopping the inertia of a sniper bullet or even better of 10000 ,50 call ones comming from a helicopter/vehicle mounted spinning barrel gun with his hands(considering he makes a shield cause lightsaber would be inefficiet for stopping bullets) ,which just makes the movie be crap cause he'd be even more powerful than superman,he could basicly take out the entire planet alone. it depends which u take in consideration.u just destroyed the entire movie.
also if they are so fast and flexible,how come all the jedi(except yoda and obi-wan) were all killed by a bunch of simple troops in the Return of the Sith ?how come they didnt foresee that or block their shots and kill the troops instantly ?none were shot from behind,they all turned and looked at the troops,even tried to fight bk,but uselessly.
and if they cant block blaster bolt with the force,how could they block bullets which are ,as proven,faster and have a far greater inertia(when a blaster bolt hits a lightsaber,it doesnt move it,so it doesnt have inertia)
4)hmm,k,what about a minigun,about 100 shots per second at over 1000m/s...thats how far we've got ,is that just difficult as well ?
even if obi blocked the shots from grievous,i could easly see those bolts(not block them in reality,but i could see them in the movie) thing which is impossible with a normal bullet ,even if it shines , because of its speed.
out tech really is superior in terms of rate of fire,and bullet speed even though u crossed it out its still true.
couldnt find the shatterpoint u mentioned,give me a link.anyhow a tank has splash.u would have to move a couple of meters away not to get hit so not just bend ur body.
the basic idea is:blocking bullets with lightsaber is both impossible because of speed,power(force of inertia) and rate of fire which are all double the ones of their weapons.but thats irelevant because he cant block bullets with lightsaber.
blocking them with the force again is superman style.blocking small ,hard objects moving with about 1000m/s at a rate of 100/second comming from all directions isnt quite what they let us know the jedi power is.
also did any jedi/dark one ever made a shield? they use the force to push things around but i never remember them making an actual shield that blocks everything that comes.if they never did it,and used other harder means to attain the same effect(blocking with saber or dodgeing) than we can presume they cant make shields,so vader cant stop bullets so...
overall...Vader is meat 😉
come on,Fining Nemo was fun,but i saw it like one year or 2 ago...
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
I sawfoursevensix points:
1. Bullets will continue through a saber.
2. Vader will be unable to respond fast enough to the bullets to intercept them anyway.
3. The Force can only be used for TK, not buffing.
4. The rate of fire from our guns will be too great for Vader to react to. (Distinct from no. 2 in that objection is quantity not speed of bullets.)5. Our tech is superior to theirs in terms of rate of fire.
6. A telekinetic Force barrier is inefficient because Vader is unlikely to know the source of fire.
7. What if Vader is shot by a tank?In order:
(Sorry, I refuse to use quote boxes for this. I should be watching Nemo.)1. [pending]
formed the deadly bolt." (Ibid). Everything in the article (presumably ripped from a more authoritative source) suggests that blaster bolts are at least partially composed of plasma and that they move very quickly.
2. Unlikely. The description on Wookieepedia claims that the Blas-tec plasma rifle shoots a "combination of light and plasma" ([url=http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Blaster#Technical_information]Wookieepedia). We all know that light moves very quickly. The question then is plasma; does plasma move more slowly than bullets? Again, the answer is no. "In these blasters, the combination of superhot laser-light [b]and a compressed bolt of intense energy particlesThis, you will say (knowsnot or otherwise) contradicts the movies. The response to that assertion lies in the next section.
3. The vast majority of EU sources disagree with you here. Not only is Yoda a noted master of Force Valor, the existence of a Mind Trick seems to discredit the idea of a purely kinetic Force methodology. Furthermore, the question of augmentation is taken up by every single novel in the series. You don't get to throw all that out.
Why then, someone will ask, do Sidious and Samuel L move like old men? Why does Vader fight like a quadriplegic? Why does Luke have a baseball bat? The answer is that the films have limitations. In the 80s they were significantly greater than they are today. The simple fact of the matter is that real lasers wouldn't look cool so they are different. It would be foolish to throw out the entirety of the EU ['s explanation of blasters] simply on the basis of an interpretation of the movies. We don't know that those scenes (involving blasters) are bare lens (metaphorically) or that they are all in real time. We can't even extrapolate (perfectly) how the blasters work from the movies because we don't know if the laws of physics hold.
4. Their tech is superior. But, even if they do have a lesser rate of fire then the Jedi can still deal with our rate of fire. Examples: Kenobi, dealing with Grievous' onslaught notes that deflecting (more than?) 12 blows per second is only difficult, not impossible. Jedi routinely wade through battles where there is more fire.
6. Vader probably will know the source of fire b/c of how precog works- it is a warning, not just a faster reaction. (Anakin: I can see things before they happen [in a pod race].)((Jacen: OH NOES! A bullet is coming from [x] direction!))
7. If Vader is shot by a tank then he dodges or dies. His showings in RoDV (maybe?) where he evades an armed twi'lek without using his own lightsaber show he's certainly flexible and quick enough to maneuver out of the way.
So I've typed a lot. Anybody wanna check Shatterpoint for how Mace deals with bullets shot @ him? [/B]
1. (waiting for response)
2. True, Vader may be able to block bullets in terms of speed but...
3. Agreed (mostly)
5. You know that gun being developed in Australia? It can fire A MILLION ROUNDS PER MINUTE (16666.666... rounds per second which is FAR FAR FAR greater than 12 rounds per second, and is fired electronically so it doesn't recoil. That's FAR beyond ANY infantry firearm that Star Wars has. And while it isn't completed 100% yet, if the Empire invades, then there would be put FAR more pressure on it being built so they could probably make it in time. Scary, huh? Weapons that are being developed can surpass that of Star Wars weapons, which are supposed to be hundreds of years into the future.
6. Will that protect from minguns/that gun I showed (I think it's called Metal Storm, or is that the company's name?) firing thousands/millions of rounds per minute, and, most of all from missiles and bombs from above?
7. We're talking about a tank round that travels at supersonic speeds. Plus they could just make electricutors that zap Vader's suit.
(waits for Nemesis to respond)
Red NemesisThis is new. You sure you don't mean Aurra Sing in Coruscant Nights?
7. If Vader is shot by a tank then he dodges or dies. His showings in RoDV (maybe?) where he evades an armed twi'lek without using his own lightsaber show he's certainly flexible and quick enough to maneuver out of the way.
Originally posted by radu1234Lol at "phisics".
the idea we're discussing is vader so i wont refer to the stormtroops.we consider that if vader is dead,they lostweeeell...what u said and the movie totally contradicts...i've only seen the movie and taken all my arguments from the movie.if it is like in the movie then we win.
with what u said ,u make them sound like superman
1) k ,first, from what phisics and the *movie* tells us,bullets can pass through a lightsaber.metal can only melt,it doesn't interact with oxigen to incinerate,its molecule move faster and faster until,at a certain huge heat point,it turns to gas.if the lightsaber would be that hot,it would pass through a door in a second,but it actually takes time to melt.and even if it would bring the metal to the point of turning into gas,that gas would have the same temperature as the saber ,but unlike the saber,it would transmit that energy in the surroundings killing vader instanly. again in the movie(phantom manace i presume),u can see them sticking the saber in the door,and then see the door slowly melting.so the bullet would pass through the saber,taking its heat and turning it into a molten ball,without losing its inertia so even if vader blocks it he's dead.
The metal doors we see being cut in to in Star Wars are made of durasteel. From Wookiee: "Durasteel was an incredibly strong and versatile metal alloy, created from carvanium, lommite, carbon, meleenium, neutronium, and zersium. It was capable of withstanding blistering heat, frigid cold, and monumental physical stress, even when very thin. Because of these properties, durasteel was used for almost everything, from smelting pots for other less hearty metals, to spacecraft hulls. Despite that, however, it could still oxidize. Durasteel containers were commonly seen throughout the galaxy.
Darth Vader's armor was mostly made of durasteel.
Bullets here on Earth aren't made of that. So yes, the metal bullet will be incinerated. Lightsabers are pure energy, they don't give off heat. Heat is produced when matter comes in to contact with it. Plus your operating under that assumption that Vader's suit will be damaged by tiny shards of metal.
Apparently in The New Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology it says this about his armor. "Like stormtrooper armor, the suit was equipped with a sensitive temperature-regulation system, which could be controlled by a function box on his belt. This unit was powerful enough to allow Vader to walk the surface of icy Hoth without any additional protection."
metal doesnt incinerate,the bigest proof that non-organic materia doesnt incinerate is that fact that planets exist.before a planets creation,it reaches temperatures of milions of degrees ,and it doesnt incinerate.if non-organic materia would incinerate,there would be no materia cause it would've all burned after the Big Bang.so metal only shifts from one agregation state to another,in the end becoming close to gas.
now,a lightsaber transfers its heat to any material that enters its beam.if a bullet would pass through a lightsaber,it would take its heat and hit Vader with that heat and ,due to lack of resistance from the beam, with the same force that it had.that would pretty much kill him,cause not even his armor can withstand a lightsaber's heat.