Re: What if the Empire invaded modern day earth?
Obvious spite thread is obvious.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
No space/air support, just ground troops (for the empire)
So basically, Imperial ground troops are at the mercy of the world's combined ground/navy/air forces? Why are you even making a thread then?
The empire sends an invasion force w/:500,000 stormtroopers
1000 AT STs and tanks
100 AT ATs
Darth Vader is commanderWould they succeed?
No, because you've essentially made a galaxy-wide force attack without its overwhelming navy support which is the backbone of its power and gave it slightly less ground troops than Iraq had in the First Gulf War.
The armor itself might be a considerable force, but it is not mobile enough to do more than attack a given location. So basically, all those troopers will have to find a way to cross rivers, barricades, mountain ranges and oceans with equipment not meant to do so. So that really can't conquer earth either. You've completely made this lopsided.
This might seem like an easy win for the empire, but let's look at it.
No.
Our toops would FAR outnumber them.
Duh. You obviously made a mis-matched thread and now you're pretending like it's a serious mental exercise when your agenda is just to make a spite thread.
Our toops seem to be more accurate (stormtroopers couldn't hit Han Solo at close range),
So basically, you're taking a sample of stormtroopers and applying that to the organization as a whole?
If cops in LA have a shootout and don't hit their target after 40+ rounds, am I to conclude that all cops, both in LA and without, cannot shoot thugs?
No, because that's horrible logic, that's why. Obviously, stormtroopers don't shoot Han Solo because he'd be dead. Also, where are they shooting him at point-blank range? All the times in the PT where he's shooting at stormtroopers, they're either across a large open room from him, or he's shooting them down as they just enter. There are no pistols at high noon moments.
our guns have a faster rate of fire (blasters don't seem to fire at that fast of a rate),
Actually, blasters can fire as fast as the trigger can be pulled, which makes them just as fast. The thing is, they have limited ammunition and they are meant to cause significantly more damage than an actual bullet.
our armor actually does something (although it wouldn't really help vs. the blasters since they're heat),
They're more than just heat, but our armor is meant to protect against ballistic projectiles somewhat and fragmentation. A barrage of blaster fire would down any troop in the world.
and our soldiers are overall better trained (a squad of stormtoopers w/rifles and armorcan't beat a smuggler, a princess and a farmboy w/ pistols)
Gross misrepresentation. Stormtroopers conquered and installed order in many worlds after the formation of the Empire, and you're forgetting that Han Solo is an expert at personal combat, and the other two are latent Force sensitives. Of course they weren't easily shot. And to be fair, Han Solo does get tagged in RotJ in the shootout.
Their AT STs actually got knocked back by a catapult 😆 and got tripped by a stone age trap.
Definitely they lack balance, which is why for mobility purposes they aren't too effective. However, their shots are incredibly lethal so as stationary turrets, they do rather well.
We could just use the same tactic as the snowspeeders. Or...NUKES
Yes, because all the world powers would choose to nuke the exact spot where the Imperial land forces are, just to make it easier. Fallout be damned. You really know nothing about nukes.
Vader is powerful, and would certainly help in a small skirmish, but come on. In a huge war, one man that's powerful doesn't really help that much unless if he's superman or something; the jedi aren't really all that helpful (in the clone wars) IN TERMS of just head on fighting because there's only 10,000 of them.
Which is why your spite thread fails.
Re: Re: What if the Empire invaded modern day earth?
Originally posted by Janus Marius
Obvious spite thread is obvious.So basically, Imperial ground troops are at the mercy of the world's combined ground/navy/air forces? Why are you even making a thread then?
No, because you've essentially made a galaxy-wide force attack without its overwhelming navy support which is the backbone of its power and gave it slightly less ground troops than Iraq had in the First Gulf War.
Are you suggesting that I give the Empire the full weight of their military? Cause then you'd be complaining to me about this being a spite against Earth instead.
Originally posted by Janus MariusThe armor itself might be a considerable force, but it is not mobile enough to do more than attack a given location. So basically, all those troopers will have to find a way to cross rivers, barricades, mountain ranges and oceans with equipment not meant to do so. So that really can't conquer earth either. You've completely made this lopsided.
Then why did Nemesis claim that the Empire doesn't need supplies because they have "hypermatter" (wtf?) and Lucien claims that AT-ATs can go over all terrain?
Originally posted by Janus MariusSo basically, you're taking a sample of stormtroopers and applying that to the organization as a whole?
If cops in LA have a shootout and don't hit their target after 40+ rounds, am I to conclude that all cops, both in LA and without, cannot shoot thugs?
No, because that's horrible logic, that's why. Obviously, stormtroopers don't shoot Han Solo because he'd be dead. Also, where are they shooting him at point-blank range? All the times in the PT where he's shooting at stormtroopers, they're either across a large open room from him, or he's shooting them down as they just enter. There are no pistols at high noon moments.
Those were the stormtroopers in the Death Star (you'd expect those that were deployed to the most deadly space station in the galaxy to be pretty good) and later on Endor (and they were specifically stated to be among the Empire's best troops). Get your facts straight.
Exactly how is being a expert shot supposed to make you HARDER to HIT? Han Solo being well trained doesn't make you able to dodge blaster rounds. And Luke/Leia were barely trained; sure they were force sensitive, but they still shouldn't be able to take down so many stormtroopers.
@Lucien: you blame me for overreacting...and yes it's true that I'm getting mad, and do you know why? Because you refuse to actually respond to my perfectly logical points. You don't think that they are? Then PROVE IT. What you do is quote me but only say "you're pathetic" or something like that, and yet fail to actually respond to my points.
BTW, if this were 500,000 CLONEtroopers, THEN it the clones might win.
Re: Re: Re: What if the Empire invaded modern day earth?
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Are you suggesting that I give the Empire the full weight of their military? Cause then you'd be complaining to me about this being a spite against Earth instead.
Originally posted by HewhoknowsallNemesis was wrong, as far the Wookieepedia article tells us, hypermatter isn't used in ground vehicles. And you're one to talk about ignoring points. You're blatantly twisting what Janus said. He mentioned the difficulty of the troops crossing terrain, not the armor. Idiot.
Then why did Nemesis claim that the Empire doesn't need supplies because they have "hypermatter" (wtf?) and Lucien claims that AT-ATs can go over all terrain?
Originally posted by HewhoknowsallThis is rich coming from you.
Get your facts straight.
Originally posted by HewhoknowsallI don't care why you're getting mad. You're a child. I also don't care about the outcome of this thread anymore. You obliterated any dignity and respect you may have had with your tantrums. No one cares about you or how you feel.
@Lucien: you blame me for overreacting...and yes it's true that I'm getting mad, and do you know why? Because you refuse to actually respond to my perfectly logical points. You don't think that they are? Then PROVE IT. What you do is quote me but only say "you're pathetic" or something like that, and yet fail to actually respond to my points.
you guys are way too mean. And jeanus, you have exagerated in most parts.
Originally posted by Janus Marius
So basically, you're taking a sample of stormtroopers and applying that to the organization as a whole?
no, he was just giving an example. Stormtroops, throughout the entire series, had a shit aim.
Originally posted by Janus Marius
tack without its overwhelming navy support which
u proly meant air support.
Originally posted by Janus Marius
Actually, blasters can fire as fast as the trigger can be pulled, which makes them just as fast.
if their guns would shoot only as fast as they could press the trigger then their rate of fire wouldn't be even a fifth of ours(taking in consideration the AK-47's rate of fire, proly the most used and known weapon, not a mini-gun).
Originally posted by Janus Marius
They're more than just heat
Their only effect is heat and i dont see whats the point of that part of the post.
Originally posted by Janus Marius
their shots are incredibly lethal so as stationary turrets, they do rather well.
how can they conquer a planet being stationary. and even so they'd be knocked down one way or the other.
Originally posted by Janus Marius
Stormtroopers conquered and installed order in many worlds after the formation of the Empire
a huge number of them with powerfull artilery and space support did all of that. also they were always fighting against ppl having the same training(most likely since they were soldiers as well) and using the same weapons. so most likely the blaster rifles had a huge recoil thus making them less precise that our infantry.
Originally posted by Janus Marius
Yes, because all the world powers would choose to nuke the exact spot where the Imperial land forces are, just to make it easier. Fallout be damned. You really know nothing about nukes.
not a very thought over response... u really think all the countries would be like : "omg, aliens atked shoot all the nukes we have, it doesn't matter if others shot nukes already" ... no, most likely the closest nuclear country to their drop point would shoot one nuke for start and if the imperials survive shoot others.
Which is why your spite thread fails.
24 votes for the empire, 14 for us... clearly someone disagrees with you.
he gave the empire some "reinforcements" which u all ignored.
there are many ways to end this. some countries could be joining the empire. if vader sees he'll lose, he will accept the help from those countries( considering he's not killed through the ways i mentioned 😛 ). also they could drop over a nuclear base or something and start squirting nukes all over Earth...
so his initial given numbers and rules can be bended or evaded so that the empire wins in one way or another.
HewhoknowsallFirst of all, I'm on my side, which is that the Imperials gets completely and merciless sodomized and that this has been an absurdly one sided thread from the start; we're not going over this again. Second, just because we share a similar point of view doesn't mean I can't or won't point out when you're wrong. Allowing weak arguments to subsist gives others grounds to challenge my position.
@FaunusEminence: first of all, you're on my side (technically).
HewhoknowsallI've already put forth my case, and I'm right. I don't need to argue anything anymore, so I'll go after whatever I want.
Second of all, if you're going to respond then at least respond to the full thing/most of the full thing and not the little phrases that I make.
radu1234Find me one other person willing to argue that the Empire -- as described by the OP or including all subsequent revisions -- would win this. Then show me their arguments.
24 votes for the empire, 14 for us... clearly someone disagrees with you.
Random input =/= valuable input.
radu1234This is true. Don't worry, though: Janus will soon slip into a creek and accidentally freeze himself, and Lucien will be tossed into the Australian wilderness and devoured by mutant koalas.
you guys are way too mean.
All is good.
Re: Re: Re: Re: What if the Empire invaded modern day earth?
Originally posted by Lord LucienI don't care why you're getting mad. You're a child. I also don't care about the outcome of this thread anymore. You obliterated any dignity and respect you may have had with your tantrums. No one cares about you or how you feel.
See? Once again you haven't actually responded to my points! That means that you obviously CAN'T respond, otherwise you would.