Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Lol, and you just ignored Eminence and Slash. HippoKrit.
I WILL answer them once I have time, but the thing is that you would quote my post and yet not actually respond to it.
So the next time you post in this thread, can you please answer my arguments? Because you keep on making excuses not to. If you don't, then it can be assumed that I win and you lose b/c you can't counter my points.
Originally posted by HewhoknowsallWhen you have time... but you seem to have to time for me. AWWWW!
I WILL answer them once I have time, but the thing is that you would quote my post and yet not actually respond to it.So the next time you post in this thread, can you please answer my arguments? Because you keep on making excuses not to. If you don't, then it can be assumed that I win and you lose b/c you can't counter my points.
I've actually lost interest in you. That said, I'll humour your wounded ego. Can you re-post your argument with me? ME mind you, not your arguments with the others.
I kinda lost interest in this thread. It became a flame war...
K, in all of the battle scenarios, we would win because of number superiority and not so lame weaponry.
But what if they actually used their heads rather than their weapons?mainly Vader use his head.
Scenarios 1: He lands right on top of the white house. He easly gets to the president with mind tricks:
Vader:"I'm not here!"
Security dude 1:"Ur not here. *@-|* " .
Security dude 2:"Who are you talking to ? *@-|* "
Then he mind tricks the president to give orders(and the codes) to shot all the nuclear rockets they have at the entire world(hit the largest cities of the world) except Russia and China in... the time it takes him to get to Moscow with a passanger plane(he mind tricks the airport security into letting him pass). He gets to Moscow(when he gets there, US starts shooting...), to the prime minister again through mind tricks all the way and mind tricks him into shooting Russias entire nuclear arsenal at the whole world except China and US. (again at the worlds major cities)
Everybody will think the 2 of them are together and want to take over the world...
In the meantime the rest of Vaders forces will land somewhere in China(3rd nuclear power) and Vader again will take a plane from Russia to China.
And the nuclear bombardment starts. The entire world will turn against US and Russia and start a world war thinking they made a pact and try to take over the world while the 2 still hate each other and wont help each other. Vader, that got to China mind tricks Chinas president into staying neutral. After the war ends, with massive dmg over the entire world, China ...with Vader as underground ruler takes over the remaining world. Nobody will dare atk China when they're neutral cause nobody will want to have to face the 3rd most powerful nuclear country along with what they already have to face. The basic idea is that everything will start suddenly and end when all the nukes are shot... just as sudden creating a total chaos in which nobody knows what actually happened. About 80% of the planet will be in ruins and China will easly take over whats left...
Thats how Vader,using his brain would be able to defeat us
K u can start criticising me now 😛
btw this forum is as buggy as a rotting tree in a tropical forest. I always have to relogin to edit sth.
no, he was just giving an example. Stormtroops, throughout the entire series, had a shit aim.
You're missing the point - stormtroopers we see in the movies are mere samples of an organization which is billions and billions strong. Also, a lot of them are defensive units garrisoned in places that would not normally be attacked - the Death Star, Endor, etc. The forces on the Death Star are a reserve unit, and the forces on Endor were a trap.
They're not really reflective of the group as a whole. Additionally, Ben Kenobi notes during the Jawa sandcrawler discovery that "only Imperial troopers are this precise", meaning that they do use effective accuracy compared to Random Sand Person X. Keep in mind that Sand People shot Luke up rather well. And don't forget how efficiently they stormed the base at Hoth. Once stormtroopers were on-site, they had secured most of the base in minutes.
u proly meant air support.
No, because a navy in this sense is meant to talk about spaceships which are part of the Imperial Navy. The difference is semantic, but ultimately pointless in the debate. Nice redirect there.
if their guns would shoot only as fast as they could press the trigger then their rate of fire wouldn't be even a fifth of ours(taking in consideration the AK-47's rate of fire, proly the most used and known weapon, not a mini-gun).
You're comparing our ARs to their carbines and pistols which they deliberately use on semi-auto fire, although Wong notes that they do have burst fire and many other things you've completely overlooked.
Their only effect is heat and i dont see whats the point of that part of the post.
No, they're actually using superheated plasma energy, which is extremely deadly. It's not a "heat gun". Read for yourself.
how can they conquer a planet being stationary. and even so they'd be knocked down one way or the other.
I said specifically that their utility lies in being stationary turrets which are obviously capable of self-mobilization. They don't require teams to pull them or combustive fuels to power them apparently. But AT-STs running around like chickens trying to destroy enemy tanks and motor vehicles while in areas with obvious terrain issues would be a stupid use of these in combat.
a huge number of them with powerfull artilery and space support did all of that.
Ground forces are still meant to subjugate and police areas which are recently conquered, and because of the diversity in the SW galaxy, it is implied that they would have a broad range of experience in working in most areas. Additionally, their commanders would be very experienced.
also they were always fighting against ppl having the same training(most likely since they were soldiers as well) and using the same weapons
So they were fighting enemy stormtroopers? This doesn't make any sense.
so most likely the blaster rifles had a huge recoil thus making them less precise that our infantry.
"Most likely"? Do you even know what you're arguing against here?
not a very thought over response... u really think all the countries would be like : "omg, aliens atked shoot all the nukes we have, it doesn't matter if others shot nukes already"
You fail at reading comprehension. That is deliberately meant for Hewhoknowsall who claimed that the world's nations would just nuke the Imperial invading army, a propos of nothing.
So you're evaluation of my post was not very "well though over".
no, most likely the closest nuclear country to their drop point would shoot one nuke for start and if the imperials survive shoot others.
No.
You don't have an argument. You're just slinging out baseless assertions without proof. Stop being daft and prove up or shut up.
24 votes for the empire, 14 for us... clearly someone disagrees with you.
An overwhelming majority of KMC thinks Goku could beat Superman, so really I don't put a lot of stock in "mass opinions". If I did, I'm sure I'd be dressing scene or emo and be listening to Nickelback, thinking what a great, unique band they are while talking to my fake friends on my iPhone.
he gave the empire some "reinforcements" which u all ignored.
There's 35 pages to this thread. You really think I read them all before I posted, just looking for reinforcements?
Originally posted by Janus Marius
You're missing the point - stormtroopers we see in the movies are mere samples of an organization which is billions and billions strong. Also, a lot of them are defensive units garrisoned in places that would not normally be attacked - the Death Star, Endor, etc. The forces on the Death Star are a reserve unit, and the forces on Endor were a trap.They're not really reflective of the group as a whole. Additionally, Ben Kenobi notes during the Jawa sandcrawler discovery that "only Imperial troopers are this precise", meaning that they do use effective accuracy compared to Random Sand Person X. Keep in mind that Sand People shot Luke up rather well. And don't forget how efficiently they stormed the base at Hoth. Once stormtroopers were on-site, they had secured most of the base in minutes.
There's 35 pages to this thread. You really think I read them all before I posted, just looking for reinforcements?
It is STATED that the troops on Endor on among the Empire's BEST TROOPS! I said this in a post, and yet you ignored it! And a force guarding the Empire's most powerful battle station ought to be pretty powerful, especially since the Emperor intended for the battle of Endor to be the final end to the rebellion - so why would he have unexperienced troops in it? Of course the Death Star would be a big target! That's like putting the least experienced troops in charge of guarding Obama during a war against another country and saying "oh well they'll never find Obama/capture DC anyway" well you guard him anyway because he's important.
No, but you shouldn't complain about me not giving them X without knowing exactly what I gave them:
I GAVE them 100 tie fighters
I GAVE them intel about Earth
I GAVE them plenty of supplies
I GAVE Lucien the choice of where to put the Imperial forces, but he just ignored my question
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
When you have time... but you seem to have to time for me. AWWWW!I've actually lost interest in you. That said, I'll humour your wounded ego. Can you re-post your argument with me? ME mind you, not your arguments with the others.
Here it is:
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
How come you quote my post and yet don't specifically respond to my points?Why do you IGNORE the post where I said that the Empire gets 100 tie fighters?
Why do you IGNORE the post where I said that the Empire gets intel about Earth?
Why do you claim that Mexico is too far from America when it's RIGHT NEXT TO AMERICA!!!!
Please answer my questions instead of saying "you're pathetic" yet failing to actually logically counter what I specifically said.
Another thing: you keep on complaining about the fact I "twisted the thread" by not giving them air support which is why you now think that Earth would win (even though all of your points support the Empire) and that you only though that the Empire would win at first via the untwisted OP. However, I stated that they had no air support in the OP.
Again: please respond to the above points. You keep on refusing to respond to my points, which is leading me to believe that you are refusing to do so because you can't.
Please respond to it
If you don't respond to it in your next post, then it can be concluded that I win because you can't counter my logic (*waits for someone to say how stupid my "logic" is without actually proving it*)
It is STATED that the troops on Endor on among the Empire's BEST TROOPS!
He's referring to the troops on the other side of the moon. Context is helpful.
I said this in a post, and yet you ignored it!
When?
You do realize that I didn't waste my afternoon sorting through all 30+ pages of this just to read your content, right? You should have included everything in the original post, or requested a mod edit it if you lacked the ability.
And a force guarding the Empire's most powerful battle station ought to be pretty powerful, especially since the Emperor intended for the battle of Endor to be the final end to the rebellion - so why would he have unexperienced troops in it?
Unexperiencedinexperienced troops? I never claimed that. Reading is your friend. I said that they are defensive units meant to hold locations that aren't going to be attacked en masse. In both situations, when fire was traded, it was when the storm troopers were either:
1. Attacked by surprise from Han and Chewie
2. Firing from a considerable distance
3. Not expecting a billion Ewoks to ambush them when they had the Rebels effectively pinned
Since none of these situations includes a scenario where storm troopers are detached, armed, and sent out on a mission to conquer and kill, I don't see why their lack of performance is meant to say that all stormtroopers can't shoot right. The exceptions aren't the rule.
Of course the Death Star would be a big target! That's like putting the least experienced troops in charge of guarding Obama during a war against another country and saying "oh well they'll never find Obama/capture DC anyway" well you guard him anyway because he's important.
Ridiculous analogy.
The Emperor did not expect the Rebels to be reinforced by Ewoks in the woods, or else I'm sure the Imperials would have had the perimeter secured and would have effectively destroyed the resistance. The Imperial Stormtroopers' strength, like the Romans, isn't in individual capability but their effectiveness at using tried and true military doctrines and judicious use of overwhelming force.
No, but you shouldn't complain about me not giving them X without knowing exactly what I gave them:I GAVE them 100 tie fighters
I GAVE them intel about Earth
I GAVE them plenty of supplies
I GAVE Lucien the choice of where to put the Imperial forces, but he just ignored my question
Again, I'm not vigilantly scouring the entire thread, looking for additional updates by you. As the threadmaker, it's in your best interests to either update the original post, or perhaps close the thread and make another one if it's clearly imbalanced.
Originally posted by Janus Marius
He's referring to the troops on the other side of the moon. Context is helpful.
And why didn't those troops rush to their aid?
Originally posted by Janus Marius
Unexperiencedinexperienced troops? I never claimed that. Reading is your friend. I said that they are defensive units meant to hold locations that aren't going to be attacked en masse. In both situations, when fire was traded, it was when the storm troopers were either:1. Attacked by surprise from Han and Chewie
2. Firing from a considerable distance
3. Not expecting a billion Ewoks to ambush them when they had the Rebels effectively pinnedSince none of these situations includes a scenario where storm troopers are detached, armed, and sent out on a mission to conquer and kill, I don't see why their lack of performance is meant to say that all stormtroopers can't shoot right. The exceptions aren't the rule.
1. They get surprised like all the time, and don't seem to stay on guard.
2. But how come Han Solo hits them from said distance?
3. They KNOW that Endor has Ewoks (assuming that they know about the planet that they're on) and the Ewoks used STONE AGE WEAPONS and beat the imperials with AT-STs. What's wierd is that in my Modern Day USA vs Roman Empire thread everyone says that even if there are 6 billion Roman soldiers than USA still wins and how it's a spite, and yet Lucien came up (earlier) with excuses on how the Ewoks won vs. (supposedly) space age imperials.
Originally posted by Janus MariusRidiculous analogy.
The Emperor did not expect the Rebels to be reinforced by Ewoks in the woods, or else I'm sure the Imperials would have had the perimeter secured and would have effectively destroyed the resistance. The Imperial Stormtroopers' strength, like the Romans, isn't in individual capability but their effectiveness at using tried and true military doctrines and judicious use of overwhelming force.
Again, I'm not vigilantly scouring the entire thread, looking for additional updates by you. As the threadmaker, it's in your best interests to either update the original post, or perhaps close the thread and make another one if it's clearly imbalanced.
So you admit that the Empire is not infallible and CAN be ambushed. In that case, what stops us from doing the same? If stone age ewoks and successfully ambush them, then I'm pretty sure we can.
First of all, I can't edit the original post (which was posted quite a while ago) because it was posted more than (gasp!) 15 minutes ago. Second of all, I don't blame you for not checking every post, however if you don't then please don't make claims when you don't know if I've addressed them already. Third of all, I made efforts to correct this "unbalanced" thread by giving them air support AND intel. See? NOW I'M TELLING YOU. And if you think that Earth wins in a spite, then why are you arguing against the Empire?
Now let's stop this pointless arguing. Does anyone think that the Empire wins? If so then say why! If not, then I guess that we've come to a conclusion then.
And why didn't those troops rush to their aid?
Some were dispatched to capture the Jedi, and they got ambushed, which dissolved into a frantic firefight with ratty looking Care Bears in the woods.
1. They get surprised like all the time, and don't seem to stay on guard.
You are one of thousands of soldiers on the most powerful thing ever produced in the known galaxy. Your 'job' is to mindlessly patrol your section against a danger which will most likely never come. Being 'lax' does not translate into 'all Stormtroopers sux'. Stop strawmanning and learn to debate.
2. But how come Han Solo hits them from said distance?
Han Solo is using a modified heavy pistol which he has extensive practice with, and the stormtroopers are usually running forward, firing from the hip. Very few troopers stop to brace their carbines/rifles and aim.
Besides, the Stormtroopers are not meant to be western gunslingers any more than the US Marines are or the Roman army; they're meant to form defensive and offensive lines of fire, cover, etc. and use something called tactics. Obviously, you don't know what those are.
3. They KNOW that Endor has Ewoks (assuming that they know about the planet that they're on)
But the Empire wasn't fighting Ewoks, were they? Their main objective was to secure the base and capture the Rebels who they vastly outnumbered.
Fighting guerilla warfare against ragged teddybears wasn't in their mission briefing, I'm sure.
and the Ewoks used STONE AGE WEAPONS and beat the imperials with AT-STs.
Ewoks use ingenuity to make traps which overcome some of the AT-STs, and die miserably in the process. The Ewoks were losing their asses despite outnumbering the stormtroopers tremendously until Chewbacca commandeered one of the AT-STs.
GL makes a huge point to play sad music so you see the teddybears being crushed by the technologically superior forces of the Empire, and you slept through it.
So you admit that the Empire is not infallible and CAN be ambushed.
OMG slippery slope!
So the exception is the rule with you? How stupid is that?
Okay, the US lost their asses against the inferior Vietnamese.
OMG they could NEVER EVER BEAT ANYONE EVER AGAIN, CIRCUMSTANCES BE DAMNED!
Seriously, do you even think about this stuff before you post?
In that case, what stops us from doing the same?
The fact that the Imps will be trying to kill us instead of being ambushed by us while detaining a few Rebels. Duh.
If stone age ewoks and successfully ambush them, then I'm pretty sure we can.
I love this kind of flimsy logic.
The Vietnamese won the war against the US despite having inferior weapons and resources. Therefore, Iraqi forces will hand them their asses in a different scenario.
I guess when you really look at the idea, you see how stupid it is, huh?
Blah blah blah blah, random stuff that's kind of pointless, I'm deliberately off topic blah blah.And if you think that Earth wins in a spite, then why are you arguing against the Empire?
I didn't realize that to correct obvious flaws in someone's argument I had to be totally against their actual "side".
If someone says Superman beats up the Flash by virtue of wearing thicker lipstick, I can safely call that person wrong in their reasoning and still agree with the overall premise. Obviously, I'm more concerned about how someone's getting there as opposed to them just getting there. I do think the thread started out as fundamentally retarded, but then again most spite threads are.
The fact that you've amended your initial settings to include small buffs doesn't just fix the whole problem with your reasoning. You think that a galaxy-wide armed forces unit descending from the Clone Troopers is going to be bufu'd by earth forces by virtue of a circumstantial battle in RotJ.
Again, it's the whole "exception is the rule" reasoning I disagree with.
Adding to Janus's post; I can't find the quote at the moment, but it's said somewhere that the "standard issue blastr often lost precise calibration over time".
So quoting Janus
Originally posted by Janus Marius
You are one of thousands of soldiers on the most powerful thing ever produced in the known galaxy. Your 'job' is to mindlessly patrol your section against a danger which will most likely never come. Being 'lax' does not translate into 'all Stormtroopers sux'.
I wouldn't be suprised at all. If they forgot regular maintenance on their weapons.
wooot i think i just broke my post length record 😄
(if you dont want to read all, make sure u read the last paragraph about Goku and Superman pls)
Janus, you dont know how to lose and try to win by intimidation(the way u call him stupid, ridiculize him and try to make him look stupid and un-worthy) and over-exagerated off-set proof.
I dont even think u realize what you are trying to prove here. Let me put it simple. You are trying to prove that the storm troops on one of the most powerful ships in the galaxy are less trained and less-capable than the the ones you imagined have conquered worlds and so on.
You are mistaking because :
1)You say the ship is so powerful it would destroy any ship and thus doesnt need a capable security because nobody would even atk by comming abord it. Thats fake. They would have surely thought that at some point the ship might be infiltrated and they need a good security or they could even lose it the enemy.
2)They are all clones, they are the same(except the commanders that have been given leadership capabilities), trained in the same way. There is no difference between them. They're fighting experience is the same cause they are all circulated and used everywhere. The stormtroops on that ship might even be the ones that conquered and secured planets, and when the ship left for its mission, they were dispached to board it as ship security. Claiming that those troops are less capable than the others is just stupid. Also taking by surprise means they were killed before they could even shoot. Not true, there was a big exchange of fire all the time.
You're missing the point - stormtroopers we see in the movies are mere samples of an organization which is billions and billions strong....
Fake. The stormtroopers we see in the movie are the ones we take in consideration. We cant know how good the others are.Maybe all the others had a growth problem and are retarded, prove me wrong, i say all the other stormtroops we dont see in the movies are retarded and dont even know how to shoot a weapon >.> .(childish behaviour, i know, but here... its needed)
The ships conquer planets, troopers just secure them, mentain order, they dont need to actually fight in the planet conquering war. They dont actually take over the planet by themselves. Throughout the entire movie, stormtroops had shit aim. In big wars you could see laser shots flying randomly in the air. You cant know what Kenobi considered to be precise. Since you see them barely hitting sth anywhere in the movie u can only presume that ppl less precise than them can't actually hit anything (exagerated fact, but stil i hope you get the point...).
No, because a navy in this sense is meant to talk about spaceships which are part of the Imperial Navy. The difference is semantic, but ultimately pointless in the debate. Nice redirect there.
Yup, my bad, i should have realised u were talking about the "Imperial Navy" ...if it's even called like that(i doubt it)...no comment.This is the best proof you dont accept ur mistakes(even if the mistake is just a normal common one which anybody can do) and always try to cover them even in bad ways.
You're comparing our ARs to their carbines and pistols which they deliberately use on semi-auto fire, ...
Man, you just proved they have a 2 shots burst fire.Totally aside from the topic. Presuming its automatic wont work. Show me a place where the weapon could even reach the rate of 10 shots per second(thats a small rate for our weps, but their weps reaching that would be enough) and i belive u.(you try to invent proofs and arguments against sth obviously true).
No, they're actually using superheated plasma energy, which is extremely deadly. It's not a "heat gun". Read for yourself.
Again totally aside from the topic.Who said its a heat gun. They're effect is heat.They melt and pass through everything. It doesnt matter what the "bullet" is made of. It could shoot superheated shit. Its effect would still be generating a huge amount of energy consisted in heat to pierce anything.
Ground forces are still meant to subjugate and police areas which are recently conquered, and because of the diversity in the ...
So it means they use the combat experience from when created. They are all used everywhere. They have the same experience. Gropus of them are dispached randomly from the mass of stormtroopers. They go from one place to another when needed. Spaceships will land somewhere after the mission is over and the troops on it will be dispached proly to go secure a planet. Their commanders were grown to have great leadershi capabilities. Its even logical for each of them to be used everywhere so they'll gain experience, not rot somewhere for nothing.
So they were fighting enemy stormtroopers? This doesn't make any sense.
They were fighting the resistance's soldiers. Enemy soldiers not stormtroopers. And we consider that those soldiers have battle experience and equal training in weapon weilding. Why ? You cant actually calculate battle experience, but participating in many battles brings the exp to a somewhat equal point. I mean at some point battle doesnt bring experience but just keeps u in shape...or kills you 😛
You don't have an argument. You're just slinging out baseless assertions without proof. Stop being daft and prove up or shut up.
An argument ?!? Do i need an argument for this. Do you actually consider that all the countries would just spam nukes like that without thinking? I took in consideration the only logical, normal response. Dunno what else to say on this matter... -_-
"Most likely"? Do you even know what you're arguing against here?
Crap i just shited my pants. I'm too scared to say anything -_- .
Yes, i know what i'm arguing against. Everywhere in the movie, ppl weilding blaster weps shot like little children with a machine gun...with crap aim so i can only consider the weapon has a huge recoil. (i didnt search the net for anything about their recoil so show me a link and prove me wrong... ) and all is good(but dont bring me a link with presumptions or about efficiency and consider it includes recoil... only sth strictly about recoil)
There's 35 pages to this thread. You really think I read them all before I posted, just looking for reinforcements?
Yeah, the only place where u actually have a point. I thought that it would have been hard to check the entire thread for all his changes.
An overwhelming majority of KMC thinks Goku could beat Superman, so really I don't put a lot of stock in "mass opinions".
Good point again ... But, tell me, why couldnt Goku in SS4 beat Superman. Superman used his full power in don't know what episode when he said he was so far afraid to use his entire power not to dmg Earth to much, but then it didnt matter anymore. So he punched the guy with his entire strenght and blew him through a lot of buildings and so on.
Goku in SS i dont know which number blew an entire planet to pieces litteraly in just 1 shot (he was fighting Boo) . Also all over both series Goku does far far far more dmg per hit than Superman. Goku's hits turn huge huge rocks to dust only from the shockwave, he's far more powerful(in term of phisical strenght), faster(watch how slow Superman hits compared to Goku even if moving speed is rather similar, he cant apply full force on super fast hits) his super strong, planet destroying energy shots are way more devastating than anything Superman can pull out . Goku can turn a planet to pieces with little effort while Superman can't do shit to a planet. We cant know for sure whose endurance is greater, but if we take in consideration what nuke scale hits Goku took without feeling them versus the blows needed to harm Superman i say Goku wins here as well. Goku>Superman in everything except endurance, of which we dont know a thing but its likely that Goku would win as well... so Goku is favourited here.
Originally posted by radu1234Would you put your crack troops in to a giant metal ball that acts as an impregnable fortress? Bit of a waste. It's like if the elite SS were sent to guard concentration camps---no one's gonna bother attacking those things so why send your best men to protect it? And it's a common misconception that every stromtrooper was a clone. By 0 ABY, many were normal recruits.
wooot i think i just broke my post length record 😄
(if you dont want to read all, make sure u read the last paragraph about Goku and Superman pls)Janus, you dont know how to lose and try to win by intimidation(the way u call him stupid, ridiculize him and try to make him look stupid and un-worthy) and over-exagerated off-set proof.
I dont even think u realize what you are trying to prove here. Let me put it simple. You are trying to prove that the storm troops on one of the most powerful ships in the galaxy are less trained and less-capable than the the ones you imagined have conquered worlds and so on.
You are mistaking because :
1)You say the ship is so powerful it would destroy any ship and thus doesnt need a capable security because nobody would even atk by comming abord it. Thats fake. They would have surely thought that at some point the ship might be infiltrated and they need a good security or they could even lose it the enemy.2)They are all clones, they are the same(except the commanders that have been given leadership capabilities), trained in the same way. There is no difference between them. They're fighting experience is the same cause they are all circulated and used everywhere. The stormtroops on that ship might even be the ones that conquered and secured planets, and when the ship left for its mission, they were dispached to board it as ship security. Claiming that those troops are less capable than the others is just stupid. Also taking by surprise means they were killed before they could even shoot. Not true, there was a big exchange of fire all the time.
Originally posted by radu1234Well it's a good thing we don't go by your opinion, because the elite shock troops of the Empire are also in the EU, where they are, in fact, elite.
Fake. The stormtroopers we see in the movie are the ones we take in consideration. We cant know how good the others are.Maybe all the others had a growth problem and are retarded, prove me wrong, i say all the other stormtroops we dont see in the movies are retarded and dont even know how to shoot a weapon >.> .(childish behaviour, i know, but here... its needed)
Originally posted by radu1234Troopers don't fight wars? Ever heard of the Clone Wars? Ever played Battlefront (which is canon)?
[B]The ships conquer planets, troopers just secure them, mentain order, they dont need to actually fight in the planet conquering war. They dont actually take over the planet by themselves. Throughout the entire movie, stormtroops had shit aim. In big wars you could see laser shots flying randomly in the air. You cant know what Kenobi considered to be precise. Since you see them barely hitting sth anywhere in the movie u can only presume that ppl less precise than them can't actually hit anything (exagerated fact, but stil i hope you get the point...).
Originally posted by radu1234Once again, glad we don't use what you think as canon. It's called the Imperial Navy. In the NJO, Han even had to specifically ask for water-navy equipment.
[B]Yup, my bad, i should have realised u were talking about the "Imperial Navy" ...if it's even called like that(i doubt it)...no comment.This is the best proof you dont accept ur mistakes(even if the mistake is just a normal common one which anybody can do) and always try to cover them even in bad ways.
Originally posted by radu1234True, but it's still plasma, and it seems to create a small burst on impact capable of burning through material. We can't make the claim our bullets do the same.
[B]Again totally aside from the topic.Who said its a heat gun. They're effect is heat.They melt and pass through everything. It doesnt matter what the "bullet" is made of. It could shoot superheated shit. Its effect would still be generating a huge amount of energy consisted in heat to pierce anything.
mattatom:
I wouldn't be suprised at all. If they forgot regular maintenance on their weapons.
This is a good point. I don't personally recall anything saying that, but then again I doubt I would have retained it; I haven't read anything but Old Republic/Prequel Era material for years. But if the weapons issued to the troops on the Death Star are not calibrated, or are shoddy at best because they're not elite Darktroopers or something, that would make a lot of sense as well.
radu1234:
I just want to start off the rebuttal by saying I find it difficult to be persuaded by someone who has '1234' in his username. Granted, it's not easy to come up with a unique username when "Numbnuts" and "mastercheif69" are taken, but this just looks like you didn't even try.
Janus, you dont know how to lose and try to win by intimidation(the way u call him stupid, ridiculize him and try to make him look stupid and un-worthy) and over-exagerated off-set proof.
No, I usually win by crushing my opponent's pathetic excuses for an argument, except in rare cases where they make sense. The 'intimidation' is more for the lulz, and to be quite honest no one here is really 'intimidated' by me posting blocks of text on the internet. If they are, they need to seriously consider counseling.
I dont even think u realize what you are trying to prove here. Let me put it simple. You are trying to prove that the storm troops on one of the most powerful ships in the galaxy are less trained and less-capable than the the ones you imagined have conquered worlds and so on.
[Insert yawn here]
No, again. I'm pointing out that the Death Star doesn't need crack assault troops to defend itself from harm. It has an array of turbolasers, a superdeathbeamfromhell, and is virtually impervious from harm. The idea that anyone would board the Death Star is so unfathomable that it defies common sense. Since Stormtroopers are vestgial except for playing hall monitor/prison camp guard roles, the idea that they are the best the Empire has to offer would be completely ridiculous. They weren't being used on the front lines, period.
1)You say the ship is so powerful it would destroy any ship and thus doesnt need a capable security because nobody would even atk by comming abord it. Thats fake. They would have surely thought that at some point the ship might be infiltrated and they need a good security or they could even lose it the enemy.
They don't need good quality troops for security... there's billions of crew. At that point, all they have to do is outnumber the potential invading forces which couldn't number more than a dozen if they're lucky. Again, the number of crew on the ship, including its stormtrooper contingent, is completely leaning towards the Tarkin Doctrine, that a threat of force is as effective of a deterrent as actual force itself.
2)They are all clones, they are the same(except the commanders that have been given leadership capabilities), trained in the same way. There is no difference between them. They're fighting experience is the same cause they are all circulated and used everywhere. The stormtroops on that ship might even be the ones that conquered and secured planets, and when the ship left for its mission, they were dispached to board it as ship security. Claiming that those troops are less capable than the others is just stupid. Also taking by surprise means they were killed before they could even shoot. Not true, there was a big exchange of fire all the time.
No, this is clearly wrong. You obviously don't read up on things before you argue them. Early stormtroopers were clones from the Clone Wars, but later on new DNA was used for clones to fill the ranks, and regular conscription became prevalent a full nine years before ANH.
So yeah, you're wrong.
Fake.
"Fake" means "not real". The English word you're searching for in vain is "False", but that would be wrong in this situation too.
The stormtroopers we see in the movie are the ones we take in consideration. We cant know how good the others are.Maybe all the others had a growth problem and are retarded, prove me wrong, i say all the other stormtroops we dont see in the movies are retarded and dont even know how to shoot a weapon >.> .(childish behaviour, i know, but here... its needed)
No, your argument here is the only thing retarded, Mr 1234. You cannot ask me to prove your baseless assertion and then make an argument out of it. You can't go "God is invisible and you can never know him; disprove, plz!" and pretend like that's being logical.
So pull your head out of your ass and realize that a sample <<<<<< a whole.
Yup, my bad, i should have realised u were talking about the "Imperial Navy" ...if it's even called like that(i doubt it)...no comment.This is the best proof you dont accept ur mistakes(even if the mistake is just a normal common one which anybody can do) and always try to cover them even in bad ways.
You know what? I was going to go easy on you, but this is inexcusable. You must be functionally retarded, because this is the height of ignorance for someone attempting to pretend like they know more about Star Wars or any topic for that matter.
It's called the Imperial Navy in just about every piece of literature in the series, fool.
At least try to look this shit up before you post.
Man, you just proved they have a 2 shots burst fire.Totally aside from the topic. Presuming its automatic wont work. Show me a place where the weapon could even reach the rate of 10 shots per second(thats a small rate for our weps, but their weps reaching that would be enough) and i belive u.(you try to invent proofs and arguments against sth obviously true).
You must not know what a carbine is; the Imperial troops on the Death Star are using carbines in close quarters, and use single shot and burst fire for practical uses. Their absence of full auto does not preclude its existance, especially since fully automatic weapons are used in the Battle of Hoth in TESB. Way to pay attention to the source material. Also, Wong in that link pretty much covers the weapon argument. Either you'll read it, or you'll Show The Forum Understanding, your choice.
Again totally aside from the topic.Who said its a heat gun. They're effect is heat.They melt and pass through everything. It doesnt matter what the "bullet" is made of. It could shoot superheated shit. Its effect would still be generating a huge amount of energy consisted in heat to pierce anything.
You mentioned "it's only effect is heat", which just underlines and italicizes your ignorance. That's the point.
So it means they use the combat experience from when created. They are all used everywhere. They have the same experience. Gropus of them are dispached randomly from the mass of stormtroopers. They go from one place to another when needed. Spaceships will land somewhere after the mission is over and the troops on it will be dispached proly to go secure a planet. Their commanders were grown to have great leadershi capabilities. Its even logical for each of them to be used everywhere so they'll gain experience, not rot somewhere for nothing.
You're missing the point - they're clearly skilled in conquering and subjugating many hostile species, human and otherwise. Collectively, they're the embodiment of over two decades of Empire-expanding might. I think you're cutting them short just a little.
They were fighting the resistance's soldiers. Enemy soldiers not stormtroopers. And we consider that those soldiers have battle experience and equal training in weapon weilding. Why ? You cant actually calculate battle experience, but participating in many battles brings the exp to a somewhat equal point. I mean at some point battle doesnt bring experience but just keeps u in shape...or kills you 😛
So simply surviving a bunch of battles makes all warriors equal?
That's your argument? You do realize that they don't get XP point values for this stuff, right?
An argument ?!? Do i need an argument for this.
Yes, in a forum made for debating, you actually need to make a valid argument to make your point. If not, you should actively Show The Forum Understanding.
Do you actually consider that all the countries would just spam nukes like that without thinking?
I already rebutted this, dopey. World powers don't launch nukes at invading ground forces just for kicks. Nuclear power has only been used twice in the world's history, and since then has been a catalyst for potential world destruction. Your assertion that all the world leaders will shit bricks and spam nukes is not only baseless, but stupid. Too bad you don't get points for both.
I took in consideration the only logical, normal response. Dunno what else to say on this matter... -_-
No, you didn't. You were just slinging shit at the wall to see what would stick, while going "nuh uh" to the opposition. This not only is a ridiculous debating tactic, but it makes you look like a troll in disguise.
Crap i just shited my pants. I'm too scared to say anything -_- .
Yes, i know what i'm arguing against. Everywhere in the movie, ppl weilding blaster weps shot like little children with a machine gun...with crap aim so i can only consider the weapon has a huge recoil. (i didnt search the net for anything about their recoil so show me a link and prove me wrong... ) and all is good(but dont bring me a link with presumptions or about efficiency and consider it includes recoil... only sth strictly about recoil)
Actually, Mr 123Fail, you do have to support something you brought up as a valid point. You mentioned they have recoil, prove up or shut up. Considering that Leia and Padme can use blasters with elbows locked in the movies without breaking their arms pretty much blows this out of the park.
A bunch of rabid pro-Goku fanboy bullshit blah blah blah, no context, blah blah blah, Supes has restraint, blah blah
I'm not stepping into this debate here, since I beat it to death with scans and whatnot years ago in the proper section. Suffice to say that you're wrong, ktnxbai.
radu1234I didn't see anyone else touch on this... but it's completely wrong. The Cestus Deception and The Clone Wars make it very, very clear that troopers were trained in different places under different rules with different people, and that they develop their own individual personality and camaraderie along with their own unique battlefield experiences. They are most definitely not "the same."
they are the same(except the commanders that have been given leadership capabilities), trained in the same way. There is no difference between them. They're fighting experience is the same cause they are all circulated and used everywhere.