Originally posted by AllanklesIt is nothing like the mind or the soul gem. Normal people can resist it and it took time for Ds to take over Turpin. Soul gem has total mastery while the ale doesn't affect a variety of people.
If you understood it we wouldn't be having this argument.The ALE is a cosmic first-cause blue print on the nature of the complete absence of freedom. It seems to be too deep for you to comprehend but in truth it's very simple. A god weapon capable of enslaving souls and disproving the very concept of free will. Cause and effect.
It's more like the mind gem and soul gem melded into one.
Originally posted by AllanklesNo, you aren't especially when this physical artifact has total mastery and your ale doesn't. Pretty cut and dry.
Hey I'm just schooling people on the differences between a concept and physical artifact. The former is a cause the latter merely an effect.DS possessed Turpin's body.
Originally posted by Enyalus
No, I get what you're saying. But the Gem is a physical artifact as well as the primal embodiment of that concept. The Soul Gem was the first soul-like object in existence. The Space Gem was the first space-like object in existence. Etc. All because of the Infinity Being (Nemesis) being the first thing in existence and those beings pieces of its power. They're the same IMO, except that the Soul Gem has been shown to be greater by way of feats.
Problem with that is, there's no reason why a being who's mastered the ALE would be affected by a soul or mind gem. Complete knowledge of the concept of Anti-life automatically makes you immune to any influence that tampers with free will.
Resistance of the ALE has nothing to do with power levels one way or the other, its a concept not a power up.
Originally posted by AllanklesThere is absolutely no reason to think that someone who mastered the ale can resist someone with total mastery over the soul. The soul gem represents total mastery over one's soul. You seem to be fixated on the fact that it's a gem. That has nothing to do with anything.
Problem with that is, there's no reason why a being who's mastered the ALE would be affected by a soul or mind gem. Complete knowledge of the concept of Anti-life automatically makes you immune to any influence that tampers with free will.Resistance of the ALE has nothing to do with power levels one way or the other, its a concept not a power up.
The ale has shown limitations in dealing with ordinary people. 😐
Originally posted by quanchi112
It is nothing like the mind or the soul gem. Normal people can resist it and it took time for Ds to take over Turpin.
That's because the ALE is a concept and not magic its truth needs to be processed by its victim.
And humans in DC possess this concept in the deepest recesses of their mind, humans are actually not very normal in DC. And Earth 0 is the foundation stone of creation.
Originally posted by quanchi112
There is absolutely no reason to think that someone who mastered the ale can resist someone with total mastery over the soul. The soul gem represents total mastery over one's soul. You seem to be fixated on the fact that it's a gem. That has nothing to do with anything.The ale has shown limitations in dealing with ordinary people. 😐
You're the one fixated on "mastery of the soul", when the ALE is the concept that allows for the existence of such magic or any force that takes away freedom.
Originally posted by Allankles
Problem with that is, there's no reason why a being who's mastered the ALE would be affected by a soul or mind gem. Complete knowledge of the concept of Anti-life automatically makes you immune to any influence that tampers with free will.
Yeah. That makes sense as a simple level. But DS still has a soul. And the knowledge of Anti-Life is clearly in his head/mind. IMO, the Soul Gem simply bipasses whatever protection the ALE affords him (having knowledge of the mental concept of Free Will) and subverts his soul instead.
Originally posted by Enyalus
Yeah. That makes sense as a simple level. But DS still has a soul. And the knowledge of Anti-Life is clearly in his head/mind. IMO, the Soul Gem simply bipasses whatever protection the ALE affords him (having knowledge of the mental concept of Free Will) and subverts his soul instead.
But that just makes it a force, the ALE deals with what makes such a force exist in the first place.
Originally posted by AllanklesThey are normal human beings and they can resist it. You can't just resist the soul gem at all. Warlock took on Mephisto in his own realm with it.
That's because the ALE is a concept and not magic its truth needs to be processed by its victim.And humans in DC possess this concept in the deepest recesses of their mind, humans are actually not very normal in DC. And Earth 0 is the foundation stone of creation.
The soul gem works on you if you have a soul while the ale might work on you and it might not.
Originally posted by AllanklesIt doesn't always take away freedom and you can jam the signal. This shouldn't be news to you. Do you have any proof that Ds can resist this?
You're the one fixated on "mastery of the soul", when the ALE is the concept that allows for the existence of such magic or any force that takes away freedom.
Originally posted by supremthorYou could have just said a mute. If he shows me something that constitutes as proof I am open to changing my mind. I put up scans proving it can be resisted. So far, I am the only one putting up scans to prove my points in this particular thread.
Allankles there is no point with quanch, you'll have better luck convincing a death and blind person.
Originally posted by quanchi112
It doesn't always take away freedom and you can jam the signal. This shouldn't be news to you. Do you have any proof that Ds can resist this?
Proof? What would qualify as proof to you? In DOTNG with only partial knowledge of the ALE DS was able to resist Miracle, Miracle threatens to make him wish he was dead and it suggested DS could resist this as well.
Originally posted by Allankles
Yeah that affects all the forces of mind control and soul control. Not to mention it can only be resisted through motherbox (for non-crazy beings, apparently) or anyone who doesn't have the life equation.
which doesnt have the feats to match up with the soul gem. but heh, no need for feats anyways
Originally posted by quanchi112
They are normal human beings and they can resist it. You can't just resist the soul gem at all. Warlock took on Mephisto in his own realm with it.The soul gem works on you if you have a soul while the ale might work on you and it might not.
The soul gem is magic at an "infinite power level" the ALE is the concept that allows for such "infinite" magical forces to exist.
There are many fictional stories that deal with cause and effect. The ALE's whole is described as unimaginable, as it is the very concept that allows for the existence of such powers.
Originally posted by AllanklesNo, he wasn't able to resist him. Ds did his bidding and in fc the ale was downgraded. I can put up the scan if you need to be reminded that Ds couldn't resist it.
Proof? What would qualify as proof to you? In DOTNG with only partial knowledge of the ALE DS was able to resist Miracle, Miracle threatens to make him wish he was dead and it suggested DS could resist this as well.
Originally posted by AllanklesNo, it isn't. It's the being that shaped the marvel u broken down into gems. The soul gem gives it total mastery over souls while the ale doesn't. People who are "wired differently" can't resist the soul gem while they can resist the ale. You can also break it's signal.
The soul gem is magic at an "infinite power level" the ALE is the concept that allows for such "infinite" magical forces to exist.There are many fictional stories that deal with cause and effect. The ALE's whole is described as unimaginable, as it is the very concept that allows for the existence of such powers.
This being was infinity and formed the universe. It is also backed up on panel as being exactly as I stated. You haven't proven anything as to how Darkseid can resist this thus far.