New Gods VS Not New Gods....

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, he wasn't able to resist him. Ds did his bidding and in fc the ale was downgraded. I can put up the scan if you need to be reminded that Ds couldn't resist it.

He was told to stand still but Miracle couldn't do anymore than that given DS' partial knowledge of the ALE, post it if you like (I know you want to). I think it's a waste of time personally.

The ALE wasn't downgraded it was better portrayed without the cheezy magic Starlin threw into it with CO and DOTNG. If the Source is unseen it makes sense the ALE (coming from it) would also be intangible and unimaginable.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, it isn't. It's the being that shaped the marvel u broken down into gems. The soul gem gives it total mastery over souls while the ale doesn't. People who are "wired differently" can't resist the soul gem while they can resist the ale. You can also break it's signal.

This being was infinity and formed the universe. It is also backed up on panel as being exactly as I stated. You haven't proven anything as to how Darkseid can resist this thus far.

Infinity doesn't have anything on the Source, and in truth it was non essential to the continuation of existence in the MU. The source is uncontainable and indivisible and is essential to all existence.

We don't need to go there.

I've already explained why the ALE makes him immune to any kind of forced manipulation of his freedom, no one likes to repeat themselves.

Originally posted by Allankles
He was told to stand still but Miracle couldn't do anymore than that given DS' partial knowledge of the ALE, post it if you like (I know you want to). I think it's a waste of time personally.

The ALE wasn't downgraded it was better portrayed without the cheezy magic Starlin threw into it with CO and DOTNG. If the Source is unseen it makes sense the ALE (coming from it) would also be intangible and unimaginable.

The al was downgraded because pre fc anything stated you had to listen too. In fc people could resist it and Darkseid possessed it yet didn't simply own his opponents with his words.

Originally posted by Allankles
Infinity doesn't have anything on the Source, and in truth it was non essential to the continuation of existence in the MU. The source is uncontainable and indivisible and is essential to all existence.

We don't need to go there.

I've already explained why the ALE makes him immune to any kind of forced manipulation of his freedom, no one likes to repeat themselves.

The soul gem just takes his soul. He can he resist his soul being taken?

Originally posted by quanchi112
He could have taken Ds's life though if he wanted to.

The al was downgraded because pre fc anything stated you had to listen too. In fc people could resist it and Darkseid possessed it yet didn't simply own his opponents with his words.

I can only think of the Batman incident when he could have whispered the ALE from the get go, but these are stories, you could make the same argument for a lot of other stories, in the end its pointless.

DS had this new form of the Omega Force the Omega Sanction (the life-trap) which he uses quite a bit in Morrison's continuity.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That's your opinion. Infinity when it separated became the marvel u. The Source was bested by Darkseid and clever planning.

The soul gem just takes his soul. He can he resist his soul being taken?

The Source entity wasn't the Source.

If BFRing him is all it's about then it works both ways.

Originally posted by Allankles
Infinity doesn't have anything on the Source,

You saying this just proves how biased you are. The Infinity Being created the Marvel Universe. How you can say that its somehow lesser than the Source is ridiculous.

Originally posted by Enyalus
You saying this just proves how biased you are. The Infinity Being created the Marvel Universe. How you can say that its somehow lesser than the Source is ridiculous.

Are u kidding? this is the same guy who was trying to argue Takion vs Inbetweener based on the fact that "he is an avatar of the ultimate concept" lol.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Are u kidding? this is the same guy who was trying to argue Takion vs Inbetweener based on the fact that "he is an avatar of the ultimate concept" lol.

Originally posted by Enyalus
You saying this just proves how biased you are. The Infinity Being created the Marvel Universe. How you can say that its somehow lesser than the Source is ridiculous.

The cause that ceases to be, he cannot be like the Source. I'm not talking about creation powers (fiction is fiction after all).

Originally posted by Allankles
The cause that ceases to be, he cannot be like the Source. I'm not talking about creation powers (fiction is fiction after all).

In DC that's not even The Source. That's The Presence.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Are u kidding? this is the same guy who was trying to argue Takion vs Inbetweener based on the fact that "he is an avatar of the ultimate concept" lol.

A concept refers to what came before . The ALE was there before mind control or soul control the Source was there before energy.

The source itself is the origin of the concept of energy and Takion is its avatar. Takion thus can manipulate any force or energy, the moment he became Takion he could touch "all the interlocking webs of power & forces that formed the universe".

The only thing going for I-B are combat feats, a thing that doesn't even apply to Takion. Only the Source and beings/and powers directly of the Source have been shown to affect Takion.

Originally posted by Enyalus
He was the cause of the Marvel Universe (prior to retcon...afterwards thats the Alien Entity).

In DC that's not even The Source. That's The Presence.

The Source and The Presence could be one and the same, no clear distinction has ever been provided as the Source is usually kept out of mainline continuity. The Source Wall is equivalent to the gates of the heaven of heavens and (according to FC) separates the multiverse from the overvoid.

According to Kirby The Source was simply the NG name of the first cause force that gave rise to existence. It's more of an alias imo.

Originally posted by Allankles
The Source and The Presence could be one and the same, no clear distinction has ever been provided as the Source is usually kept out of mainline continuity. The Source Wall is equivalent to the gates of the heaven of heavens and (according to FC) separates the multiverse from the overvoid.

And where were you when I was arguing for Takion over Monarch but no one else was?? 😛

Originally posted by Enyalus
The Primal Monitor seems like DC's current God, to me.

And where were you when I was arguing for Takion over Monarch but no one else was?? 😛

The Primal Monitor was bigger than the multiverse but he existed within the overvoid iirc. And didn't the Primal Monitor get divided and split into the race of hyper gods called Monitors, after he was infected by story?

I wish I'd seen it, looking at the big picture Takion should be above Monarch.

Originally posted by Allankles
The Primal Monitor was bigger than the multiverse but he existed within the overvoid iirc. And didn't the Primal Monitor get divided and split into the race of hyper gods called Monitors, after he was infected by story?

No, I think the Primal Monitor's consciousness is the overvoid....err, maybe.

*looks at Superman Beyond #1 tomorrow*

Originally posted by Allankles
A concept refers to what came before . The ALE was there before mind control or soul control the Source was there before energy.

The source itself is the origin of the concept of energy and Takion is its avatar. Takion thus can manipulate any force or energy, the moment he became Takion he could touch "all the interlocking webs of power & forces that formed the universe".

The only thing going for I-B are combat feats, a thing that doesn't even apply to Takion. Only the Source and beings/and powers directly of the Source have been shown to affect Takion.

I know the meaning of a concept. And that in itself is absoultely irrelevant here. Nonsensical rationalizations cannot replace on panel feats and accomplishments no matter how u try to play it.

The takion thing is also a load of nonsense. Takion being an "avatar of the source" does not warrant a victory over an abstract. That is simply ridiculous. Going by such foolish logic we can put Takion up against anyone and simply say "oh well he is an avatar of the source" so he wins. Its akin to saying oh "Spetre is the wrath of God" so he wins Show me his feats and accomplishments that warrant a victory not some useless conjecture.

Who are the high level beings that Takion has fought who have been unable to affect him?

Originally posted by Naija boy
I know the meaning of a concept. And that in itself is absoultely irrelevant here. Nonsensical rationalizations cannot replace on panel feats and accomplishments no matter how u try to play it.

The takion thing is also a load of nonsense. Takion being an "avatar of the source" does not warrant a victory over an abstract. That is simply ridiculous. Going by such foolish logic we can put Takion up against anyone and simply say "oh well he is an avatar of the source" so he wins. Its akin to saying oh "Spetre is the wrath of God" so he wins Show me his feats and accomplishments that warrant a victory not some useless conjecture.

Who are the high level beings that Takion has fought who have been unable to affect him?

I asked you what are the soul gems feats (without the other ifninity gems involvement), because the ALE has had a long history.

Takion is abstract as well 🙂 as are the New Gods, that's the whole point of bringing up the Source.

No being has affected Takion except if the Source has allowed such a thing to happen (IM). Stayne (the only other being) was also an avatar of the source, and Takion defeated her in the end.

That's why I said Takion isn't a good character to throw in debates as he's the avatar of the ultimate concept.

Originally posted by Allankles
Takion is abstract as well 🙂 as are the New Gods, that's the whole point of bringing up the Source.

No being has affected Takion except if the Source has allowed such a thing to happen. Stayne (the only other being) was also an avatar of the source, and Takion defeated her in the end.

lmao. more nonsense. Not "abstract" in concept alone. Im not referring to an "abstract" like Orion who is also a top tier. Or an "abstract" like Darkseid that struggles with superman. Im referring to abstract as a powerlevel. Your attempts to elevate chraacters with no feats even close to warrant putting them there are just laughable.

As i asked before(and please try to answer the question this time), what high level beings tried to affect Takion and failed?

And saying he is the "avatar of the ultimate concept" is simply an extremely pitiful attempt to dodge the need to bring up feats. Nothing more. If his being an avatar of the "ultimate concept"(in ur mind at least) was enough to warrant him defeating high level abstracts(in powerlevel) then he should have feats to prove such. But hey, feel free to dodge again. Good thing the forum doesnt buy into this trash as seen by Takions placement at trans.lol

Originally posted by Naija boy
lmao. more nonsense. Not "abstract" in concept alone. Im not referring to an "abstract" like Orion who is also a top tier. Or an "abstract" like Darkseid that struggles with superman. Im referring to abstract as a powerlevel. Your attempts to elevate chraacters with no feats even close to put them there are just laughable.

As i asked before(and please try to answer the question this time), what high level beings tried to affect Takion and failed?

An abstract suggest beyond top tier, Orion as an example has varied portrayals. From being able to defeat S'Ivaa in his true form while getting downplayed in his JLU days. Or providing part of the power to collapse a universe.

Same thing applies with DS but at least he has the avatars excuse; besides, using Supes as an example is not exactly proof of anything. Supes has a history of punching and winning above his weight class.

As far as Takion goes, no being in Genesis was capable of slowing down the god wave and this is inclusive of a 2nd world god.

He is tied to the origin of energy, this puts him at a unique position, quite different to other beings who only have the implied power without the legitimacy to accompany it. The source is what legitimizes Takion he's a focus point for it. They don't call him Takion of the Source for nothing.