Silver Surfer vs Beta Ray Bill

Originally posted by darthgoober
Please be kidding...

Moving at superspeed(off his board)...
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/7940/story2page01combatwa4.jpg

Multiple images of him attacking can be seen here…
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/1935/silversurfer199003316ik9.jpg

Surfer thinking, moving, and then attacking in less than a second can be found here…
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/6231/silversurfer198902312rp5.jpg

Surfer dodging at light speed can be found here…
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/SilverSurfer_Rune-14.jpg

Surfer blitzing an opponent with actual super speed can be found as he grabs Nova by the throat and throws him with such speed that Nova thinks he got hit with an energy blast here…
http://img80.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nova13dcp029kv7.jpg
http://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0010ct3.jpg
http://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0011pd5.jpg

Moving into specific details…

Here’s Surfer moving his hand at super speed as he blocks an energy blast here…
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/1663/silversurferannual0124na7.jpg

…and here…
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/9906/p3silversurferv309016gd0.jpg

Here’s Surfer moving his torso at super speed as he ducks under an energy blast here…
[img=http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/4663/silversurferv306409lh9.th.jpg]

…and here…
http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/8241/thor47014fn6.jpg

Surfer moving his whole body at super speed as he does a one armed handstand on his board to avoid an energy blast here…
[img=http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/3839/silversurferannual0624bd0.th.jpg]

…and then goes on to dodge the energy blast fired on the last panel of the previous scan while still of his board here…
[img=http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/1094/silversurferannual0625jw0.th.jpg]

And here we see actually Surfer interrupting a speed blitz from an opponent(that only got started because of the cheap shot in the first panel)…
[img=http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/952/silversurferv308022fs5.th.jpg]

Fighting at superspeed...
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/silversurfer07p40.jpg

Wow way to lay down the hammer. Surfer Fights at Super Speed. Wait, wait, just not the Light Speed, and God for certain not the 100x luminal speed.

Can you comprehend this notion?

Originally posted by darthgoober

The same way BRB's in Supes's class without actually being equal.

Originally posted by darthgoober

You were doing the same for BRB though....

Originally posted by darthgoober

Yeah BRB's in Surfer's class, but Surfer is superior(see how that works).

More so then these scans.
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/512/stormbreaker030506.jpg
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/8531/stormbreaker0307.jpg

I am sorry, I am not as naïve as the average member. I rather see, actual showings then an instrumental tablet being used as a measuring stick.

Originally posted by darthgoober

Yeah...
http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/?action=view&current=SilverS1.jpg

Originally posted by darthgoober

Surfer has the edge in feats in all those categories you think are questionable, that's why I say he'll take 7-8/10.

Durability, Took a shot from Galactus, that devastated Red Shift and Stardust.

Battle initiative - in character he is relentless.

Battle Smarts - he looks for a way to put you down.

Will to fight - By his own comments, and showings he fights to his vary last breath.

I don’t see how he is slouching in any department, that I have in question or regard as equal. Maybe because, you so infatuated with this Surfer, its clouding your judgment.

Damn, and Goob was at least trying to be nice in the face of this nonsense.

Originally posted by id369
Surfer has enough trouble with Thor.

In their first encounter, he had Thor separated from Mjolnir and on the ground in minutes, if not seconds. Surfer then paused to monologue, which gave Thor the time he needed to recover. Granted, this was a Loki-amped SS, but still an SS well below pre-sonic shark levels.

^ I'm not sure if it occurs before or after his first encounter with Surfer, but classic Thor didn't suffer from the 60 second curse while in Asgard. I'll have to confirm though.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Damn, and Goob was at least trying to be nice in the face of this nonsense.

Travelling speed is a virtual non-factor. Surfer may have bonified FTL reflexes, but it's not a stretch to suggest that Beta Ray Bill has sufficient combat speed/reflexes to not be overwhelmed. I generally agree that Silver Surfer has higher durability, but not enough that would make Beta Ray Bill's damage output via Stormbreaker, the virtual equivalent of Mjolnir, a non-factor. And Beta Ray Bill has no exploitable weaknesses. It'd be a fight. And it'd be tough.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Show me BRB using his forcefields/vortexes in a battle scenario as efficiently as surfer does. Further surfers matter and energy manipulation is far superior to bills and has a far wider range. (he actually plaayed a part in the reconstruction nd renergizing of bill). He has shown to use it far more efficiently in battle as well. So simply equating them and saying "both have energymanip" is completely innacurate and a poor debating tactic.

Originally posted by Naija boy

lulz. Calling out nonsensical arguments and statements does not mean ive lost my composure. If u arent going to actually address the points made and are just going to make blanket statements why bother posting?. Bill and stardust never engaged each other at superspeeds or made use of superspeed within close distances. They were simply flying from one point to another. Ur statement is a nonsensical attempt to ignore an argument which u have no means of refuting. It has no weight. I have shown numerous examples of surfer using his speed while actually engaging his opponents. If u choose to ignore that and still claim that said speed which he has used in direct combat is only good for running away then im sorry but u are a moron. It has nothing to do with my composure but is rather a factual statement about ur recalcitrance in regards to clear on panel evidence.

.

Let me ignore your AD HOMINEM. In Stormbreaker both Stardust and Bill are rushed to put down Astroth.

And just so you know, I openly acknowledge Surfer is superior in speed. However, his trans luminal track records are not combat speed.

Originally posted by Naija boy

And i would thin that from posting the scan u would be able to put in proper context. Please prove to me that the blast galactus used was anything more than a normal blast. He had been using the exact same type of blast while battling the Korbinite ships a few pages earlier. Seen below:

where was it mentioned in the scan u showed that Galactus blast was meant to cauterize the planet? Especially since he was using the same type of blast previously? further the scan u showed describes the process that Galactus tech makes use of. In the Beta ray bill scenario he hadnt even set up his tech and was just fighting ships. So please show me how the two blasts are the same.

The anomaly seems to be focused on the remains of the planet. - Issue 1 page 15

Originally posted by Naija boy

Lunatik got the better of surfer when surfer wasnt fighting to the fullest. When he got serious he physically dominated him. ABC logic is saying Character A defeated character B and so must beat character C. It fails because All three characters, A B and C may have different powersets which give them advantages over diffrent opponents or may have been fighting within different context and circumstances. Surfer physically dominating a being who is comparable to Hercules in strength and physically matching an angry Hulk and his Warbound simultaneously easily puts him in the same Top tier strength class as thor,beta ray bill,Hecrules,Hulk etc. this is indisputable really. Its not ABC logic because im not using the instance to determine surfers performance in a particular scenario but rather am using it to determine the level of one of his attributes.

My proposal find a better measuring stick.

Originally posted by Naija boy

BRB fought thor and won-Surfer has shown to be in the same strength class as such beings,

BRB ddestroyed a planet with one hit using energy and stormbreaker- Nice but not indicative of pure physical strength nd prowess

BRB-Cracked galactus body armour, Not indicative of much since damaging galactus physical body armour causes no harm to his person and has been accomplished by beings relatively low on the strength list.

Look I don’t know if you know this or not. But his hammer does tend to empower him. Regardless of the fact, the hammer was used to deliver a physical blows, to destroy the planet. I don’t see, Bill deliberately shoot rays of energy to accomplish the feat.

Breaching Galactus armor is worth mentioning. Its to bad, Surfer does not share the same feat, yet its still worth mentioning.

A weakened Surfer was physically overpowering Gladiator-style Hulk. He was physically stalemating an amped Champion of the Universe. He easily physically overpowered Ravenous, who's probably peak-herald. He also was stalemating Gladiator physically in a non-canon issue.

So whats this false notion about Surfer not being anywhere near BRB in strength??

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ I'm not sure if it occurs before or after his first encounter with Surfer, but classic Thor didn't suffer from the 60 second curse while in Asgard. I'll have to confirm though.
Not nonsense. I'd give classic Thor an even split with Silver Surfer easily. Beta Ray Bill is roughly classic Thor's equal. All the arguments being made would apply against classic Thor as well and I, in particular, disagree with what appears to be lop-sided assessments.

Travelling speed is a virtual non-factor. Surfer may have bonified FTL reflexes, but it's not a stretch to suggest that Beta Ray Bill has sufficient combat speed/reflexes to not be overwhelmed. I generally agree that Silver Surfer has higher durability, but not enough that would make Beta Ray Bill's damage output via Stormbreaker, the virtual equivalent of Mjolnir, a non-factor. And Beta Ray Bill has no exploitable weaknesses. It'd be a fight. And it'd be tough.

Finally a reasonable poster. I also give classic thor an even split with surfer. Beta ray bill is classic thors equal in statements but not im not going to instantly equate them because of that(Im sure u agree hence the term "roughly equal"😉. Also it should be known BRB and thor and two of my favorite characters before anyone tries to use petty fanboy accusations . What im referring to as nonsense isnt the notion that he would give surfer a fight (he certainly would) but rather the faulty arguments being brought up by those previously supporting him. Ive said myself that it would be a hardfought match

Travelling speed is a virtual non-factor. Surfer may have bonified FTL reflexes, but it's not a stretch to suggest that Beta Ray Bill has sufficient combat speed/reflexes to not be overwhelmed. I generally agree that Silver Surfer has higher durability, but not enough that would make Beta Ray Bill's damage output via Stormbreaker, the virtual equivalent of Mjolnir, a non-factor. And Beta Ray Bill has no exploitable weaknesses. It'd be a fight. And it'd be tough.

Agree with evrything above
The only thing i disagree with is that these same arguments can be used against Classic thor. Poweroutput wise i actually think thor has the advantage over surfer as well as him having very impressive speedfeats of his own which would lead me to believe that the speed gap between he and surfer would be much closer.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Finally a reasonable poster. I also give classic thor an even split with surfer.

I'd give Current Surfer the majority over Classic Thor...

Personally.

Originally posted by id369
Wow way to lay down the hammer. Surfer Fights at Super Speed. Wait, wait, just not the Light Speed, and God for certain not the 100x luminal speed.

Can you comprehend this notion?

Originally posted by darthgoober
1. Surfer uses speed in combat(at least as far as dodging goes) so Bill's not going to be landing anywhere near as many shot's as vice versa. Even if we credit Bill wth being equal to Thor that still puts his maxspeed at 3x lightspeed and that's only if he throws his hammer and holds on(which would make it pretty tough to land a punch), Surfer can move hundreds and thousands of times lightspeed.

...and that's all still true. Surfer's faster in and out of combat, that's the actual point. Hence, even if Surfer didn't attack at super speed, his superior speed would still mean that he got hit less. If(for the sake of argument) the two DID have equal durability, Bill would still go down faster because he's going to get hit more. Can you comprehend THIS notion?

Originally posted by id369
Perfect. But for what its worth Surfer is neither in Supes or Bill strength class.

Originally posted by id369
Your still not rationalizing my comment. High end feats where brought up, and compared. Yet BRB is still the more consistent out of the two on average.

Originally posted by id369
Stating to have energy out put of Thanos level is a big claim.
If this scan convinces you to be above the average herald.
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/7910/annihilation5008.jpg

More so then these scans.
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/512/stormbreaker030506.jpg
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/8531/stormbreaker0307.jpg

I am sorry, I am not as naïve as the average member. I rather see, actual showings then an instrumental tablet being used as a measuring stick.

Originally posted by id369
Jesus Christ, didn’t Surfer get help to fight this Thor and still got his ass handed to him?

Originally posted by id369
Energy Output? He is above the Herald Class. Unless Surfer and BRB engage in a similar battle, we will never know who has the upper hand. Because apparently, Strombringer is as powerful as the Mjolnir.

Originally posted by id369
Durability, Took a shot from Galactus, that devastated Red Shift and Stardust.

Originally posted by id369
Energy Output? He is above the Herald Class. Unless Surfer and BRB engage in a similar battle, we will never know who has the upper hand. Because apparently, Strombringer is as powerful as the Mjolnir.

Originally posted by darthgoober
3. Surfer's more durable. Bill might be able to take a supernova, but Surfer can do it and be completely unphased. Unless I'm mistaken, Bill was worried about getting sucked into a Blackhole, Surfer's completely unaffected by them.

Originally posted by id369
Battle initiative - in character he is relentless.

Originally posted by id369
Battle Smarts - he looks for a way to put you down.

Originally posted by id369
Will to fight - By his own comments, and showings he fights to his vary last breath.

Originally posted by id369
I don’t see how he is slouching in any department, that I have in question or regard as equal. Maybe because, you so infatuated with this Surfer, its clouding your judgment.

Finally a reasonable poster. Yet I am still not changing the tune of my song, just to avoid another up hill argument. Naija boy you are aware that AD MISERICORDIAM is a common form Logical Fallacie?

Originally posted by Enyalus
I'd give Current Surfer the majority over Classic Thor...

Personally.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
uhuh

^ biscuits

Originally posted by id369
He placed a force field to shield the Asgardians from the Super Skrull. It does not matter, if Surfer matter manipulation is good. Unless he is laying unconscious, it wont effect him. If Galactus beam did not transform him into pure energy, what hope does Surfer has to do the same? Its an empty statement, not worth maintaining.

Scan or issue of the superskrull incident? as i cant seem to remember and i have evry Beta Ray appearance. Further that hardly consitutes him using forcefields in battle as efficiently as surfer has. Please stop with ur referencing of some imaginary incident with Galactus that occured only in ur head. Surfer has shown that he can actually manipulate Beta ray bills structure and so his matter manip will be a useful method of attack. Ive made no empty statements. Ur the one using imaginary scenarios and faulty scan interpretations.lol

And you still have not regained your composure. Let me ignore your AD HOMINEM. In Stormbreaker both Stardust and Bill are rushed to put down Astroth. And just so you know, I openly acknowledge Surfer is superior in speed. However, his trans luminal track records are not combat speed.

Composure? Ad Hominem? Please get serious. Im not the one ignoring the points being made here. You are. I addressed and refuted evry single one of ur points while u decided to make ignorant blanket statements while ignoring the on panel evidence presented. Please post the scan of what stardust and bill "rush" that stardust and bill while fighting asteroth that was in the same vein of any the surfer speed scans showed. I have the comic and there was no such thing.

Further just so u now, NO ONE here not me nor goober talked of surfer fighting BRB at light speed. Heck i didnt even advocate speedblitzing. So this whole "transluminal speed argument" is once again going on in ur head. Maybe if u had decided to read some of the points made and not willfully ignore them u would have seen this.

Dude he feeds off planet, its his nourishment. He will not willing shoot down one, just to get a fly out of the way. The anomaly seems to be focused on the remains of the planet. - Issue 1 page 15

He didnt shoot down the planet. Which goes back to the original point of the blast not being strong enough to destroy the planet. the anomaly being focused on the remains of the planet doesnt support ur case in the slightest. Almost evry freaking time Galactus appears he is focusing on consuming one planet or the other. It doesnt mean that we suddenly assume that the blasts galactus uses when fighting the defenders of said planets must be the same blast that his tech uses to prepare for the absorption process. That is fallacious reasoning at its peak. Galactus was using the exact same type of blasts he used on BRB to on the ships he was fighting in the scan i showed. You have absolutely nothing showing that the blast was the same as the blast his tech uses. That assumption is so baseless its not even funny

You are using Lunatik as a measuring stick, who’s physical might is in question. And you keep up brining up a match with Hulk, who I also distinctively remember getting receiving a beating from if not for a force field. My proposal find a better measuring stick.

Classic Lunatiks strength was not in question. He is clearly a high level class 100 character able to even best the likes of hercules physically. On planet hulk surfer matched an angry hulk together with the war bound. There is nothing questionable there. In the other hul fight u are referencing surfer didnt want to fight hulk and held back immensely. He was trying to help hulk the whole time. In another of their physical confrontations, surfer has stopped an angry hulks doublefisted blow dead in its tracks which caused even hulk to acknowledge surfers strength. There's nothing wrong with my measuring stick. Nothing at all.

Look I don’t know if you know this or not. But his hammer does tend to empower him. Regardless of the fact, the hammer was used to deliver a physical blows, to destroy the planet. I don’t see, Bill deliberately shoot rays of energy to accomplish the feat. Breaching Galactus armor is worth mentioning. Its to bad, Surfer does not share the same feat, yet its still worth mentioning

Please, i certainly know more about BRB than u do. Using stormbreaker while surrounded by energy to destroy a planet is not a feat that was performed with only BRBs strength. This is very simple to comprehend. Bill doesnt have to deliberately shoot rays to do anything. The energy was still there. Cracking galactus armour is worth mentioning yes, but does not justify bill being put into an entirely diffrent strength class from surfer. Not at all. Case closed.

Originally posted by id369
Finally a reasonable poster. Yet I am still not changing the tune of my song, just to avoid another up hill argument. Naija boy you are aware that AD MISERICORDIAM is a common form Logical Fallacie?

AD MISERICORDIAM. lmao. Im majoring in common law and going to law school next year. dont try to teach me about logical fallacies. I wasnt appealing to anyones sense of pity. Your the one that has been ignoring evidence and practicing wishful thinking. Up hill argument? pathetic. I actually entirely agree with ODGs assesment. Its almost exactly the same as my own. U on the other have just shown recalcitrance and ignorance throughout while purposely misrepresenting on panel information as well as my position on the issue (i seriously cant stand that). It doesnt get any more fallacious than that.

Originally posted by Naija boy
AD MISERICORDIAM. lmao. Im majoring in common law and going to law school next year. dont try to teach me about logical fallacies.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Nigeria has law schools?

Reported for Anti-nigerian comments. 😛

P.S- im actually not going to law school in nigeria, but ur still reported 😈

Originally posted by Naija boy
Reported for Anti-nigerian comments. 😛

P.S- im actually not going to law school in nigeria, but ur still reported 😈

Originally posted by darthgoober
And Bill DOESN'T fight at super speed(though I don't doubt his having some degree of super reflexes). You seem to be forgetting something, I never said that Surfer would blitz Bill, what I said was...

...and that's all still true. Surfer's faster in and out of combat, that's the actual point. Hence, even if Surfer didn't attack at super speed, his superior speed would still mean that he got hit less. If(for the sake of argument) the two DID have equal durability, Bill would still go down faster because he's going to get hit more. Can you comprehend THIS notion?

What you still have not realized, is Surfer lacks a history of swimming with out getting wet (cookie to the person, who can figure out where I got the phrase from). His showings with ongoing fights, does not necessarily warrants he will continuously dodge, and land hits.

Yet out of the two, Bill hits harder. And out of the two, Bill is more combat initiative. If you want to make him look, like Tommy Hearn’s of Marvel Cosmic arena. Beta Ray Bill would be Marvin Haggler.

Sure he is because Hercules is and Surfer stood toe to toe with someone on his level. An enraged Hulk is also on their level.

Originally posted by darthgoober

Sure he is because Hercules is and Surfer stood toe to toe with someone on his level. An enraged Hulk is also on their level.

Hulk has already given Surfer a run for his money in a physical confrontation. I mean he was an his behind, while Hulk was pounding away in a force field.

Yet as of recent, Bill along with Thor basically leg pressed Asgard.

Originally posted by darthgoober

That's because he has less appearances, of course he's more consistent. Surfer's average is still higher.

I'm not basing my assessment solely on that scan though. I'm also basing in on the fact that he's done things like creating a blackhole as a side effect of his energy discharge, almost killed Thor and the rest of the Avengers with a warning blast, his being able to generate more energy than Quasar could absorb from him, and other high end feats. And don't get me wrong because those are high end feats for Surfer, but you can see why they so easily counter his low showings right?

I think that was actually a different fight after Thor was completely gone, but yeah Thor took down both he and Warlock. It doesn't change the fact that BRB went down to the same opponent(meaning that you can't really use the BRB=Thor argument).

Yes, but the Mjolnir's most powerful attack is the Godblast and I don't think BRB can pull one off because it springs from Thor's Godly energies. Besides, just having the same equipment doesn't mean that feats carry over, otherwise we'd have to consider Guy to be equal to Hal. I give Bill lots of credit for Stormbreaker, but you can claim equality with someone as established as Surfer without feats of some sort to support it. Beating Stardust isn't enough because they've never established how Surfer and Stardust stack up respectively in power output. And it's funny that you try to use that considering the fact that you're unable top accept Surfer as being on Bill's level physically when we've actually seen him manhandle someone who took out Hercules with a fair degree of ease.

If I wanted to use laws of equivalent exchange, I would have so. I rather not, this is why I do go about claiming Thors feats for Bill.

ABC logic does not warrant, the claim of being on the same league. When he overpowers Thor, Phsyscally Smashes a planet, and or has some sort of strength feat like leg pressing Asgard. Then I would consider him, in his class.

Right now remember the argument you were trying to make before...Well...

You must have missed Surfer's change in personality during Annihilation. You ever see Surfer's fight with Nova? He didn't even want to fight that guy. You see his fight with Ravenous? He blew up a planet just to make a point.

By smashing away with his hammer. Surfer finds a SMART way to win, like the time he separated Thor from his hammer. Hey wait a minute...

Surfer's was granted the will to "do what must be done" by Galactus AFTER he'd already racked up an impressive resume of will power feats.

And Bill was granted another chance, for defeating Omega Ray, and attempting to salvage the life of his people. If not for his will to carry on, he would not bin granted the Stormbreaker or be considered as a Brother to Thor.

Oath!

No it's because I know what Surfer's capable of. Something you seem to be in denial about...

Originally posted by Naija boy
AD MISERICORDIAM. lmao. Im majoring in common law and going to law school next year. dont try to teach me about logical fallacies. I wasnt appealing to anyones sense of pity. Your the one that has been ignoring evidence and practicing wishful thinking. Up hill argument? pathetic. I actually entirely agree with ODGs assesment. Its almost exactly the same as my own. U on the other have just shown recalcitrance and ignorance throughout while purposely misrepresenting on panel information as well as my position on the issue (i seriously cant stand that). It doesnt get any more fallacious than that.

My best wishes, I hope you do better in law school, then you do at debating comic book characters.