Darth Sidious v. Obi-Wan Kenobi
1. Lightsabers
2. Force
3. All-out
And here are some follow-up questions I have:
1. How much stronger than Obi-Wan is the Emperor?
2. Is he even stronger or could Obi-Wan actually beat him?
This is what I think:
1. Obi-Wan- well... he's the master of soresu and pretty accomplished at ataru also.
2. Sidious- the lightning pretty much says it all 😛
3. Sidious- his force powers make up for his lightsaber skills.
Originally posted by KodiakPalpatine blitzed two of the greatest swordsmen the Jedi Order had ever produced in about three seconds; a couple more, and he killed Kit Fisto, who personally overpowered General Grievous in single combat. He was almost too fast for Mace to handle before he slipped into Vaapad.
far more powerful? I don't think so. Tell me how Sidious would "stomp" Obi-Wan in a lightsaber battle. I don't like it when people say who would win and not explain why. 🙂
So yeah, Obi-Wan gets stomped in a duel because he is simply outclassed in speed. As Lucas said, only Mace or Yoda can compete with the Emperor.
As far as power goes? Note that Obi-Wan was casually dismissed by Count Dooku twice in their RotS duel. Palpatine > Dooku.
Originally posted by Eminence
Palpatine blitzed two of the greatest swordsmen the Jedi Order had ever produced in about three seconds; a couple more, and he killed Kit Fisto, who personally overpowered General Grievous in single combat. He was almost too fast for Mace to handle before he slipped into Vaapad.So yeah, Obi-Wan gets stomped in a duel because he is simply outclassed in speed. As Lucas said, only Mace or Yoda can compete with the Emperor.
As far as power goes? Note that Obi-Wan was casually dismissed by Count Dooku twice in their RotS duel. Palpatine > Dooku.
ABC argument!
And George Lucas (the ultimate canon) as well as Yoda said (though GL said it indirectly) that Obi Wan can't take on Sidious.
That's actually a valid ABC argument. Force power boils down to a combination of raw reserves and mastery. Unlike combatants as a whole, elements like those can be individually quantified with respect to each other. For example, if A can squat more than B, and B can squat more than C, A can squat more than C. That's different from Anakin beat Dooku and Obi-Wan beat Anakin so Obi-Wan beats Dooku.
So I win.
Originally posted by ares834Kenobi is NOT equal to Vader in power. Or Anakin. His lightsaber skills are proficient, but he doesn't come close to the Sith.
You guys don't give Obi-Wan enough credit. Lucas states that Darth Vader is 80% of the emporer. Obi-Wan is roughly equal in power to Vader, thus Obi-wan is roughly 80% the power of the emporer. As such it won't be a complete PWNage. As you guys make it seem.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Kenobi is NOT equal to Vader in power. Or Anakin. His lightsaber skills are proficient, but he doesn't come close to the Sith.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSwy412nttI
And most people seem to think that ROTS Vader > OT Vader in sabers (and the above battle was 99% sabers)
Obi-Wan was considered one of the greatest jedi the order had ever seen, and one of the best swordsman. He was a master of soresu, and could block a max of 20 strikes per second. I don't think Sidious can strike that fast... And force powers don't come into this, unless they are only used to enhance speed/strength.
Which is exactly the point: Sidious' very forte is not his technical prowess over the lightsaber (which is highly impressive, regardless), but rather his ability to use the force in order to enhance his speed to a frightening extent.
In fact, that speed was far more than Mace Windu had the ability to handle before submerging into Vaapad; he was forced back with the sheer ferocity and speed behind Sidious' style. He also did not have the speed to react to Sidious' slaughter of two Jedi Masters with one blow each, only being capable of engaging him once Kit Fiisto blocked his attack. Note; this is the same Windu that is noted to have a spectacularly powerful physique and force abilities outside of his usage of Vaapad, substantiated by feats. This is also the Windu that, without the aid of Vaapad, was capable of forcing Grievous on the defensive within their short fight, although of course it can be argued that Grievous wasn't able to use his full might in that fight.
Similarly, Grievous' style played directly into Obi-Wan's hands: it lacked any precision and finesse behind it, the traits that have been shown to be Obi-Wan's bane (his battles against Count Dooku). And even then, Obi-Wan was eventually overpowered at 20 strikes per second. It was to his fortune that Grievous did not have the sufficient skill to parry his attacks. Sidious? He's hardly of the same caliber. On the other hand, Anakin, using the force of the dark side, was able to force Obi-Wan back during their duel and lead him to a point of desperation and physical exhaustion (this can be seen from his expressions in the movie, his entire body language, whatever). Obi-Wan knew Anakin's every movie, while he would be completely unfamiliar with Sidious' erratic and unpredictable form of combat; not to mention that Sidious, having far superior control over the force than Anakin, is capable of harnessing speeds that far eclipse Anakin's own.
Moving with speeds that transcend those of opponents that heavily challenged Obi-Wan = definitive win. It's speed that is superior to Anakin's, Mace's, whatever, both Jedi said by George Lucas and Nick Gillard to be level 9's- above Obi-Wan's level 8 by a considerable margin.
Another argument is thus: when Dooku battled Yoda, Yoda kicked his ass with his speed and ferocity. The count could not handle it. On the other hand, Dooku was more skilled than Grievous and clearly had the ability to defeat him in lightsaber combat. Even if Grievous did not go all-out in these sparring matches, it cannot be argued that Dooku was, ultimately, the superior swordsman. However, Sidious battled Yoda on completely even grounds- disarming speculation or whatnot, it was evident that they were well matched in speed and a closer look at the duel on the senate pods would reveal that Sidious definitely held the offensive.