Darth Sidious v. Obi-Wan Kenobi

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
When did I say that I'm sure of myself?

YOU guys are sure of yourselves, given the fact that you insult anyone (me) who has a different opinion of you.

I THINK that Earth would win w/difficulty, and I'm trying to see what other people think. Obviously I back up my argument, or else what's the point of the thread? You guys on the other hand (you, Nai, Nemesis, etc) probably voted "Empire pwns" while I voted "Earth wins".

And look; you're insulting me again. 🙁

I don't care WHAT you think about a scenario. I'll argue it, but I don't really care. I care about HOW you argue it.

The Earth wins in that thread, there's no denying it. My problem with you is WHY you designed the scenario for the Empire to fail. You gave them virtually nothing to work with and you hindered their ability to even move. WHY? Why did you design it like that? What was the point of making the thread if the winner was predetermined? WHY?

He didn't insult you. He's actually one of the nicer guys. Of course second to me, because I'm on top of the nice guys list.

I voted Earth pwns btw ... I love this blue ball too much to even think about it losing.

Oh, screw you TG. 😬

Ha! Language, Mr. NiceGuy.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Oh, screw you TG. 😬

Who's TG? Me?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Because you're not getting it!

I don't care WHAT you think about a scenario. I'll argue it, but I don't really care. I care about HOW you argue it.

The Earth wins in that thread, there's no denying it. My problem with you is WHY you designed the scenario for the Empire to fail. You gave them virtually nothing to work with and you hindered their ability to even move. WHY? Why did you design it like that? What was the [B]point of making the thread if the winner was predetermined? WHY? [/B]

Why do you keep on insisting that it's a spite? Let's take a look at your first post in that thread:

Ahem.

The Empire targets the nuclear powers first, splitting their forces around the globe, simultaneously attacking and deterring the nuclear powers from burning the entire planet.

Assuming of course the Empire aren't a pack of retards, they'll bring some AA with them, neutralizing our air forces along with jamming our satellite/radar capabilities.

No known conventional armament can withstand laser-based weaponry of Imperial caliber, rendering our superior number factor rather useless.

And since the Vs. forums take in to consideration the EU, stormtroopers aren't the bumbling morons of the movies, but are instead rigorously trained elite shock troops (despite Ush's zeal), our "superior training" will fall by the wayside. Especially in the wake of lasers. Take that Kevlar.

Also considering that the some 200 nations of this planet do not cooperate as well as we'd all like, chances are someone *cough*France*cough*Canada* is gonna sell someone out. Also considering that only the U.S., China, North Korea, and Russia have the military capabilities to dent Imperial numbers (ala prolonged air attacks, naval defences etc.) the rest of the world doesn't really count.

In the end, we may be able to hold out long enough to dwindle and divide the Imperials to the point that a war of attrition may arise in which case we WILL lose considering the immense likelihood of defection. The nuclear option leaves everyone dead ONLY if the Imperials do not possess or do not acquire a means to stop/protect themselves from it.

I didn't even factor in Vader.

Doesn't look like you think Earth will win.

Also, the Empire has disadvantages yes, but it's called handicapping. The empire is obviously superior to Earth, so I gave Earth advantages in order to balance things out.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Who's TG? Me?

No, it's the Canadian.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
He didn't insult you. He's actually one of the nicer guys. Of course second to me, because I'm on top of the nice guys list.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Oh, screw you TG. 😬

You're a liar. As a helper I'm automatically the nicest one here.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
You're a liar. As a helper I'm automatically the nicest one here.

I manually decide what happens automatically.

By the way, change your avatar. It stopped being funny an hour before Eastern ended.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Who's TG? Me?

Why do you keep on insisting that it's a spite? Let's take a look at your first post in that thread:

Ahem.

The Empire targets the nuclear powers first, splitting their forces around the globe, simultaneously attacking and deterring the nuclear powers from burning the entire planet.

Assuming of course the Empire aren't a pack of retards, they'll bring some AA with them, neutralizing our air forces along with jamming our satellite/radar capabilities.

No known conventional armament can withstand laser-based weaponry of Imperial caliber, rendering our superior number factor rather useless.

And since the Vs. forums take in to consideration the EU, stormtroopers aren't the bumbling morons of the movies, but are instead rigorously trained elite shock troops (despite Ush's zeal), our "superior training" will fall by the wayside. Especially in the wake of lasers. Take that Kevlar.

Also considering that the some 200 nations of this planet do not cooperate as well as we'd all like, chances are someone *cough*France*cough*Canada* is gonna sell someone out. Also considering that only the U.S., China, North Korea, and Russia have the military capabilities to dent Imperial numbers (ala prolonged air attacks, naval defences etc.) the rest of the world doesn't really count.

In the end, we may be able to hold out long enough to dwindle and divide the Imperials to the point that a war of attrition may arise in which case we WILL lose considering the immense likelihood of defection. The nuclear option leaves everyone dead ONLY if the Imperials do not possess or do not acquire a means to stop/protect themselves from it.

I didn't even factor in Vader.

Doesn't look like you think Earth will win.

Also, the Empire has disadvantages yes, but it's called handicapping. The empire is obviously superior to Earth, so I gave Earth advantages in order to balance things out.

This has got to be the fourth or fifth time you've evaded answering my question. I can see that you're either avoiding it on purpose or simply don't understand it.

Originally posted by Eminence
1.) stomp
2.) lolwutstomp
3.) lolwutstomp

And the Emperor as of RotS is far more powerful than Obi-Wan. Yoda didn't think it was even worth the effort for Kenobi to try and challenge him.

While I respect your point of view as much as anyone on here (in most matters), I have to disagree somewhat. Darth Sidious isn't going to roll through Obi-Wan Kenobi as easily as you make it seem (at least in a saber duel). Obi-Wan's saber defense is damn near airtight. He'll definitely last a while before finally succumbing to Sidious' mastery of blade manipulation. Keep in mind that I'm referring only to a saber battle. In an all-out, no holds barred combat scenerio, Obi-Wan becomes Jedi toast.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
While I respect your point of view as much as anyone on here (in most matters), I have to disagree somewhat. Darth Sidious isn't going to roll through Obi-Wan Kenobi as easily as you make it seem (at least in a saber duel). Obi-Wan's saber defense is damn near airtight. He'll definitely last a while before finally succumbing to Sidious' mastery of blade manipulation. Keep in mind that I'm referring only to a saber battle. In an all-out, no holds barred combat scenerio, Obi-Wan becomes Jedi toast.

In sabers alone, Sidious took out three masters in seconds. One of them(Kit) Kenobi admitts to being better than himself in sabers.

Kenobi made that statement at the beginning of the Clone Wars- he improved greatly over the course of time. I'd put RotS Kenobi firmly above a contemporaneous Fisto.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
In sabers alone, Sidious took out three masters in seconds. One of them(Kit) Kenobi admitts to being better than himself in sabers.

To begin with, Red Nemesis makes an excellent point. Secondary to that, the matter of Obi-Wan's statement regarding Kit Fisto is typical of a Jedi. It belies a characteristic that many Jedi try to adhere to; humbleness.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I conceded my defeat. I was trying to make case for one side, because that's what we do. The parameters you set however predetermined the Empire to lose. I was simply trying to counter your obtuse choice of statistics.

This has got to be the fourth or fifth time you've evaded answering my question. I can see that you're either avoiding it on purpose or simply don't understand it.

So the winner is predetermined? Wrong; it's NOT. If it were so, then WHY DO YOU SAY THAT THE EMPIRE WINS (OR AT LEAST AT THE BEGINNING YOU DID)? Now you say that you conceded defeat and that you were simply trying to argue for a side...does that mean that you just randomly pick a side and argue for it even if you don't think that side would win? WTF?

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Kenobi made that statement at the beginning of the Clone Wars- he improved greatly over the course of time. I'd put RotS Kenobi firmly above a contemporaneous Fisto.

How much did he improve? Is it fair to say Kenobi improved but Kit didn't? If you can give evidents or a source i will drop the arguement. Even if Kenobi did improve dramatically, i still would not put him too much above Kit. It seems Kit did just as well against Grievous as Kenobi did, and may have been able to defeat Grievous.

There is still no arguement that can put Kenobi close to Sidious as far as sabers. Sidious's force inhanced strength and speed would be far too much for Kenobi.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
So the winner is predetermined? Wrong; it's NOT. If it were so, then WHY DO YOU SAY THAT THE EMPIRE WINS (OR AT LEAST AT THE BEGINNING YOU DID)? Now you say that you conceded defeat and that you were simply trying to argue for a side...does that mean that you just randomly pick a side and argue for it even if you don't think that side would win? WTF?

What he is trying to say that you hindered the empire so much before the battle starts with the scenario you set up and what the empire has/hasn't to work with. So yes, it was predetermined before the battle would even began. It's like putting DE Sidious vs TPM Anakin, the battle is over before it even began.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
So the winner is predetermined? Wrong; it's NOT. If it were so, then WHY DO YOU SAY THAT THE EMPIRE WINS (OR AT LEAST AT THE BEGINNING YOU DID)? Now you say that you conceded defeat and that you were simply trying to argue for a side...does that mean that you just randomly pick a side and argue for it even if you don't think that side would win? WTF?

Like I said about, oh, 3 weeks or so ago: I argued in favour of the Empire because I felt they could win given the circumstances of the parameters that you set out. That's what we do here, we pick a side and argue for it. But due to lack of details, we all pressured you to add some. You did. Those details you added guaranteed a victory for the Earth. We harassed you for giving unfair advantages to one side. You felt compelled to defend your decision. Then over the course of several weeks you frequently brought up the fact that "we're all big meanies who point out your mistakes". THEN you felt the need to open up several threads with the statement "some members here/I wanna prove" but which was really a cover banner that cried out "I can improve my renown with you guys if I get some members to prove others wrong, making me, the thread starter, look better for it."

You're so good at getting offended and not knowing when to take a joke or concede a point, that, despite arguing in favour of the general consensus, you STILL managed to tick off people in your Rome vs. USA thread. It's been some time since someone as dense and persistent as you traveled through here. I must thank you for spicing this place up with your insistent and witless brays.

1) I think Obi-Wan's mastery of Soresu might give him a chance in Lightsaber combat...though, it's highly likely that Sidious' speed would overcome him relatively quickly

2) Sidious. No question...

3) Sidious, he wouldn't opt for using a Lightsaber when he came dominate Obi-Wan with his lightning...

nuff said

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
How much did he improve? Is it fair to say Kenobi improved but Kit didn't? If you can give evidents or a source i will drop the arguement. Even if Kenobi did improve dramatically, i still would not put him too much above Kit. It seems Kit did just as well against Grievous as Kenobi did, and may have been able to defeat Grievous.

There is still no arguement that can put Kenobi close to Sidious as far as sabers. Sidious's force inhanced strength and speed would be far too much for Kenobi.

I agree that Fisto most definitely improved within the parameters of Shii-Cho, perhaps as much as Kenobi in that regard. However, it's Kenobi's mastery of Soresu that lends credence to my statement that he'll "last a while before finally succumbing to Sidious' mastery of blade manipulation". Styles make fights. Do I think Obi-Wan has a chance of overcoming Sidious in a saber duel? Hell no!!! But, like I said, his mastery of Form III will serve to prolong the fight, and thus the inevitable.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
I agree that Fisto most definitely improved within the parameters of Shii-Cho, perhaps as much as Kenobi in that regard. However, it's Kenobi's mastery of Soresu that lends credence to my statement that he'll "last a while before finally succumbing to Sidious' mastery of blade manipulation". Styles make fights. Do I think Obi-Wan has a chance of overcoming Sidious in a saber duel? Hell no!!! But, like I said, his mastery of Form III will serve to prolong the fight, and thus the inevitable.

Sorry, i don't see it like that at all. Three Jedi master could not even defend themselves at the same time, even with Mace there to help. Sidious took on four blade masters without any force usage (other than inhanced speed and strength). Kit alone survived a fight with Grievous and four magnaguards, but lasted what... five seconds with Sidious, while Sidious had his attention on Mace as well.

There is just no arguement that could convince that Kenobi can do better than three Jedi masters(with the help of Mace). You can say "well Kenobi has soresu" all you want, but that is not convincing at all. If soresu was so good at lasting longer in a duel, don't you think all Jedi would use it? Different saber styles work work different for different Jedi, that why there is more than one.