Juyo vs Makashi - Maul vs Dooku (lightsaber only)

Started by DUOLC OLLOPA9 pages

Or perhaps you shouldn't jump into an engagement where you're so thoroughly and overwhelmingly outclassed.

And before you characteristically start whining about me requesting that you provide proof for your positive (as in not the opposite of negative, but of a factual nature), unsupported and absurd claims, try reading up on the Burden of Proof.

Originally posted by DUOLC OLLOPA
Here, Mace Windu, a close friend and sparring partner of the Count, a Jedi of quite some renown, only acknowledges Count Dooku as being in a position to teach the General a single form: Makashi. Given their relationship and the Count's own renown within the Order, that he would be of such a belief would [b]almost conclusively tell you that Dooku had only ever become truly proficient with Makashi. That being said, Dooku is never once stated to have been proficient in anything but Makashi, and that passage all but confirms the idea. [/B]
Maybe you just forgot to type some more in there, but what you quoted from the novel describes Mace theorizing that Dooku taught Grievous Makashi. That doesn't translate to "Dooku only knew Makashi", just "Dooku taught Grievous Makashi". I can see how you can take it as such, though, so no big. You must have forgotten more of the passage is all.

Originally posted by DUOLC OLLOPA
Prove it. Direct me to where it was apparently shown, and then prove that I saw it. Do it.

You know it was, Nebby. Why should I hunt through for an argument in which your ass was thoroughly kicked?

1. Prove that Dooku's among the "high tier".


This is how we KNOW he's a joke of an idiot


2. Please explain how the number of forms you've mastered no longer acts as a qualifier simply because you're dealing with the "high tier".

Grievous: Knew at least eight forms, including Jar'Kai
Kenobi: Knew Soresu.

Support this without committing a Fallacy of Division, and do it now.


Awww, the stupid brat read wikipedia for a bit and now he thinks he can argue, it's cute.

Yeah, all the quotes naming Dooku as an incredible duelist and one of the finest the order'd ever had means nothing


Prove it.

trained Grievous, which'd mean he'd need to at least know all of the forms, knows enough about Soresu and Djem So to spot them instantly when the opponents switch to them, able to defeat a Vaapad Master without trouble when he's not at his best, legendary lightsaber instructor, etc.


1. Prove that Dooku taught Grievous all seven forms.
2. Say "No!" to Red Herrings.

Labyrinth of Evil, kthx. And Grievous names Dooku as his teacher. Do the math


Prove it.

See above.


Prove that he honed Makashi to its highest level.

You've seen it before. Quit playing the idiot


It wouldn't definitively mean that, sure, but it would make it far more likely.

So, why wasn't Dooku steamrolled by Vaapad master Sora Bulq? No, it means you're an idiot with no grasp on how dueling works

As I've already explained to you in the past, specialising in one form is all well and good, but at a certain point, diminishing returns (google it) start to come into play. Further improvements see smaller and smaller returns. At a certain point, where the number of moves and sequences you know, and how fluidly you can perform them are so high, further improvements adds proportionally less and less to how skilled it makes you. At which point, having a more versatile, complete overall style adds far more to your overall skill. Especially in Maul's case; we know -- undeniably -- that he's mastered at least two forms to high levels, and we know that his overall expertise is far more complete and versatile than Dooku's.

Dealt with already and countless times in the past.
What's next...Yoda sucks, he only knew Ataru! When you've perfected one style, you can easily take on the enemy with it no matter how many forms he knows. Speed, skill, knowledge? Dooku's well versed in all the forms so there's a good chance he won't be surprised and an opponent fluent in all seven forms stood no chance againdt him, let alone a Vaapad master who'd have to be a master of high end forms.

QED, brat.


Technically, technically, you can't even definitively state that Dooku's mastered Makashi to a higher level than Maul's forms, you certainly can't definitively state that he mastered it to a much higher level, and even if that were the case, what that actually means to his overall level of ability is severely undermined using the concept of diminishing returns. Whereby the versatility and range of your form means far more on paper.

We CAN go on, y'know, basic evidence. Fact is, there's nothing indicating Maul will be familiar with the classic form of Makashi the way Dooku uses it and nothing indicates he has honed his skills further, given Dooku's remarkable accolades, mastery, canonical backing and much greater time of training.


The most technically demanding form, given how it requires high level mastery of multiple other forms. The moves and sequences are clearly far more complex and difficult to perform than the others given what's demanded, and it's clearly a far more complete and versatile form than the others because of that.

Odd, then, how it WASN'T a complete form until Mace finished it. Nor is this compensating for how Dooku effortlessly took on a master of a higher degree of the form Maul used and another skilled opponent at the same time


Your statement would imply that they were mutually exclusive, when in fact the former in part makes up the latter. Perhaps you should think about what these terms actually mean before using them.

Who said anything about mutually exclusive As usual, being the hypocritical dolt you are, you ignore exactly what damages your argument.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
We know full well Dooku is familiar in all the forms in combat and has mastered Makashi to the highest degree. To simply write Maul as the better because he might know more forms is short sighted stupidity.

Thank you Lightsnake. I need not expound any further at the moment.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
So, why wasn't Dooku steamrolled by Vaapad master Sora Bulq? No, it means you're an idiot with no grasp on how dueling works

I'd just like to point out that Sora Bulq was NOT a Vaapad Master. HE was mastered BY Vaapad.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Dealt with already and countless times in the past.
What's next...Yoda sucks, he only knew Ataru! When you've perfected one style, you can easily take on the enemy with it no matter how many forms he knows. Speed, skill, knowledge?

True. Quality over quantity after all.

The mastered by Vaapad thing is splitting hairs a bit...Bulq was mastered by it in that he fell to the Dark Side...this does not really impact that Sora was a HIGHLY deadly opponent who as a Vaapad practitioner was a Juyo master in his own right, which means he had to have mastered other high end forms.
Oh, given his style? Jar'Kai as well.